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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:51 PM
Original message
Florida makes deep cuts to state universities, but private college tuition aid may rise.
Edited on Thu Jan-29-09 10:54 PM by madfloridian
This is outrageous to me. As a retired teacher it truly angers me to see the way private school vouchers are freely given in this state now....taking public tax money from elementary and high schools and giving it to private religious schools. It upsets me to see the rise in aid given for private tuition. In normal economic times I probably would not pay attention, but now I am. Florida has already cut 8 billion from the budget in two years, and by March may add another 4 billion... 12 billion in cuts possible by March. With no attempts to fix things, just cutting.

I knew that programs had been in place for years to help students with tuition to in-state private colleges. But in this economy it is unthinkable for the state to keep cutting public university aid, and thinking of raising the aid for private colleges.

Public universities laying off staff and cutting services while private colleges this year get 90 million from the state.

TALLAHASSEE | Even with Florida’s 11 public universities laying off staff and limiting enrollment, the state will spend more than $90 million this year to help residents attend private colleges.

The Florida Resident Access Grant program, better known as “FRAG,” was created in 1979. The goal was to keep Floridians who were considering out-of-state private schools and help provide options beyond public universities. It has been very popular. In the current fiscal year, around 37,000 students received an average of nearly $2,600 each to help pay for tuition at one of the state’s 28 private colleges.

Even after budget cuts, about $92 million will be spent on the FRAG program this year. The Florida Department of Education is requesting an increase to slightly more than $100 million for the program next year. In this month’s special session called to fill a $2.3 billion budget deficit, funding for the state’s public universities was cut by $112 million.


Raise funding for private college tuition...cut public universities by 112 million. Someone in this state has their priorities out of order.

The state's University of South Florida is having serious problems right now.

USF braces for further cuts with a freeze on hiring and spending

Genshaft warned in a letter to the faculty and staff that further revenue shortfalls will likely dictate new cuts to the state's 11 universities, including USF, for the fiscal year beginning on July 1. Of utmost importance, Genshaft said, will be protecting the faculty's research and innovation activities and ensuring that currently enrolled students graduate on schedule.

..."The move is similar to one Genshaft made a year ago when it became clear that USF would be forced to cope with a $35.6 million loss in state funding. That shortfall has since increased to $53 million.

Genshaft's announcement comes on the heels of the January special legislative session, called to address the state's $2.3 billion shortfall. After transferring funds from various sources, the Legislature settled on current year cuts to university operating funds of 4 percent, or $93.5 million.

For USF, that will mean an overall reduction on its Tampa, St. Petersburg and Sarasota campuses of $13.8 million, along with cuts to the Centers of Excellence as well as the Energy Consortium.


At Gainesville's University of Florida there are also serious problems. From The Florida Alligator:

UF faces massive budget cuts

Because of a predicted state budget that is $3.4 billion less than this year’s, Machen said UF will ask each college and administrative unit to submit budget proposals for the 2009–2010 fiscal year with 10 percent cuts.


Added up, the cuts would entail a university–wide budget that is $72 million to $75 million leaner than the 2008–2009 budget. The budget cut for 2008–2009 was $47 million.

Also, if lawmakers pass Gov. Charlie Crist’s differential tuition plan this year, it could offset about $24 million of the cuts.

Crist’s plan would allow state universities to raise tuition by 15 percent a year until they reach the national average.

UF has the ability to raise tuition by that much, but it only applies to students who enroll in Fall of 2008 or later.


Not a good time for a raise in state tuition..not with the current financial problems here.

Meanwhile the Republicans are waiting on the federal stimulus plan to save them, even though they don't believe in government bail-outs.

TALLAHASSEE | Florida could be a big beneficiary in the federal economic recovery package beginning to emerge in Washington. The U.S. House on Thursday unveiled an $825 billion plan that would provide a substantial boost in federal spending for Florida's schools, roads and health care programs.

The federal money comes at a critical time for a state government that has had to cut its spending by $7 billion since 2007, including the special session that ended this week with state lawmakers cutting more than $1 billion from their budget because of the slumping economy.

And although much remains uncertain, including the Senate version of the program, the federal funds could offset many of the recent budget decisions Florida lawmakers have had to make, ranging from cutting nearly $500 million from public schools to raiding a tobacco settlement fund for $700 million.


Bailing out a state that wants to give more to private colleges next year while cutting public education, a state that has been totally incompetent in handling its finances....not a cheerful thought.
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NOW tense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Surprise surprise surprise
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Nothing much surprises me anymore.
Not about this state.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Statistics from just one county
http://www.theledger.com/article/20090119/NEWS/901190376/1134?Title=Budget_Reductions_Spare_Private_Schools___for_Now

"Exact figures were not available last week, but at least 2,500 students at Polk's private schools receive the FRAG grant, which was $2,837 per student for the 2008-09 year. That means more than $7 million in state aid went to Polk students through that program.

That does not count the Bright Futures scholarship, which is given to high school students who graduate with a 3.5 grade-point average or higher and score at least 1270 on the SAT or 28 on the ACT. The scholarship covers the full amount of tuition at state schools, but an equal amount is given to students who attend private schools, about $4,100 for 2008-09. More than 1,000 students in Polk's private schools qualified for the scholarship, a total of more than $4.1 million.

At Florida Southern College, 1,252 of 2,027 eligible undergraduate students receive the FRAG grant, said Lee Mayhall, vice president for college relations. "The potential impact could be huge," she said.

At Warner University in Lake Wales, 83 percent of the school's 1,030 students receive FRAG grants.

..."Southeastern University President Mark Rutland was unavailable for comment last week. The school has an enrollment of about 3,050 students."

Southeastern is a religious college who cater to religious speakers, news guys like Sean Hannity, folks like Colin Powell and Jeb Bush..their president is leaving for Oral Roberts. They should have a comment. Wealthy and fast growing school.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. This is a very muddy issue... For example UF when Bright Futures came into being
and affirmative action has been shifted to the side became a less diverse university. Bright futures kids from priveleged schools came with their Super Sweet 16 BMW, lived on daddy's college money and used Bright Futures to buy their first condo. I am seriously not kidding about this.

Meanwhile those kids who went to less prestigious HS's and had lesser test scores? Where did they go? If they had a Bright Future Scholarship essentially to the back of the line: Community College where they could apply to get into the state schools after 2 years in purgatory.

If they didn't have the scores (or residency) for Bright Futures, they were literally stuck. Where are you going to go. It may even be difficult to get into the state school as they MUST reserve spots for the Bright Futures kids per the legislature...

Many had to go to private colleges as Florida's University system NEVER caught-up to the population growth.

Even the religious nature of schools are apples and oranges. Southeastern is a joke... We used to jeer their 'cheerleaders' when we regularly kicked their ass in basketball... umm they wore skirts to their ankles... LOL

At the same time, most 'religious schools' in the state are only nominally religious... schools like Florida Southern for example.

FRAG is good because it helps make up for the lack of investment in education by the legislature. However, in these times raising it sends the wrong message.

Just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater because of some looney toon school in South Florida.

Florida needs the teachers, public servants, entrepreneurs, and workers that come from these schools.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I did not say FRAG was not good. I think in times of crisis...
things change. State universities can be harmed greatly right now while schools like bible colleges in our area with wealthy right wing donors could be getting state money while they are cutting public colleges.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I agree no one should get a rise in this environment
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. is no one complaining? this sounds blatantly unconstitutional.
why is the state funding private colleges?

why is the state funding religious schools?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. No one pays attention, really.
Jeb's vouchers still fund the private religious schools because judges did not declare that unconstitutional.

Why they funded private colleges was to keep kids in state. Right now, my feeling is fund the public colleges. Priorities.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. no one pays attention? they pay the taxes, & don't care what happens to the money?
the reports out of florida make it sound like a disaster - do people not notice, or are the reports exaggerated?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. I blame the media for a lot of the lack of concern.
Jeb's policies for years got glowing coverage.

Are reports exaggerated? I don't think what I post is exaggerated.

I think we are in trouble here, yes. But then so is the country. :shrug:

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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. Jeb Bush. We had our chance to oust him.
You spend a lot of time blaming the Clintons and Rahm Emanuel for whatever happens in Florida.

How about blaming your own union for sticking us with the worst candidate ever?

You dredge up stuff about every other Democrat who's run for office. Surely you haven't forgotten Bill McBride, darling of the teachers' union and disastrous candidate.

We were all told that we had to support McBride because he was the only Democrat who could win in Florida and because the teachers loved him and were spending themselves broke to support him.

Your journals contain all kinds of complaints all the time about how conservative the Obama Democrats are and rant about DLCers.

McBride wasn't even a DLCer, he was most probably a Republican.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. I am for funding education for ALL
private or public...

I was a POOR kid who went to one of those private college and received grants (called FSAG at that time). Private university doesn't necessarily mean 'for profit'.

My school was one of those it is a liberal arts college with a big focus on teacher education... a good portion of those teaching majors went into areas of disability education of one kind or another.

I also taught in the public schools of FL for many years as well.

Most of these schools serve just as valid a community function as state schools... often without the bureaucratic bloat that you would see at a place like UF.

While I think it is wrong to raise such a program in this environment, please get off your soap box on the private vs. public thing when it comes to post-secondary education.

Private colleges can serve just as big a community function as your state-run university.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. JC I don't have a soapbox about secondary education. I attended private colleges also.
I doubt you can find other posts. But I am in a college neighborhood of a private college, and I am on mailing lists with professors from state universities.

If you want to lecture me, please do so on something I really have a soapbox about.

I attended private colleges as well, and I have nothing but admiration for them. But in times of crisis the public should come first.

Feel free to post my other rants about universities? I am not aware of them. I do have a lot of posts about giving my tax money to private religious schools....and two of the colleges getting largesse from the state are religious as well.

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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Wasn't the OP so much as some of the responses...
As you know this issue in Florida isn't such a black and white one. If we were talking CA, it would be clear as day because CA invested money in a fine Public system that is top notch. In that environment, a voucher system would make almost no sense.

Florida grew so fast it simply wasn't able to keep up... hence an imperfect voucher system for a small part of tuition for some students who are on the poor end of the spectrum.

I just wanted to point out that I was a poor kid who would have been hard-pressed to get a college education without Florida's voucher system. It does actually do some good things.



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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. To clarify...I am not for public tax money funding private religious schools.
Not ever.

I am all for people having the choice to go to those schools, but I don't want my tax money going there.

I am happy for it to be funding both lower and higher public education.

I just don't want my money going to private schools.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. If the school meets up to the public interests of the state
(note, I would probably exclude most religious schools from that formula) I really don't have a problem with it.

One good example is my alma mater which produces a hefty percentage of special needs teachers in the state (in addition to other teachers). I would argue that it would be in the public interest to help produce those teachers in a state that doesn't produce enough teachers in the State Universities to meet all of the needs.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Of course if funding were restored to public schools instead of going to private ones...
then we might not be having this discussion at all. :shrug:

I posted in another thread that Florida is back to pre 2004 in its public school funding now.

We could have quality schools that would hire quality teachers if we were funded.

There are 4 universities in my region that used to be bible colleges. Still are, just called universities now. They are still bible colleges, and they still pay money for speakers like Sean Hannity and Anne Coulter.

They should not be getting public money from vouchers, but they are.

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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It should be simple to write a law that separates primarily public interest
Edited on Fri Jan-30-09 03:00 PM by JCMach1
from solely religious focus and interest.

However, as you know, the problem is the Repug legislature. :(

And to be entirely fair a dysfunctional democratic party in the state that cannot mount proper opposition.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You are right, in this state the Democrats are equally complicit
because they don't oppose...we have no opposition party here.

:hi:
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Bill McBride, madflorida.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick
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mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
20. Defacto privatization. This is most likely their strategy
From overspending the state on symbolic representation to warmongering as a path to clear the way for capital markets and quick innovation (usually contains cheap labor and low regulation)-the republican party has skillfully created a robust defacto privatization with in the US.

In this situation, increasing schism's between rewards and cost such that students are taking on more debt and entering the job sector with lower starting salaries and less longitudinal opportunities pigeon-holes average citizens into increased privatized contractual agreements.

This, coupled with the recent shifts in bankruptcy policy that have pseudo-rewarded incorporated organizations and heavily burdened individual filers, is culminating in a massive upper ward redistribution of wealth. The horrors of such conditions are now manifesting themselves on our tv screens every night.

Counter-strategies are brewing. Students are now fighting back in grass roots ways. One way that is particularly effective in reducing book cost like undercutting those cost with myspace and facebook accounts designed to eliminate middle-man like barns and noble crook stores on college campus's or other private for-profit ventures.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
21. I think its pretty clear in a lot of ways that Florida doesn't have much of a future
Seems as if it's one self-destructive public policy choice after another in the state.
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Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
22. Just a question..
While they are making cuts in the public U's of Florida are they making any cuts to their athletic budgets? I imagine UF spends quite a bit on their football program...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Good question.
Did you happen to see Friday Night Lights opener? Sort of the same question.

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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Florida's athletic teams bring in a fortune each year
from ticket sales, television contracts, NCAA tournaments, and bowl games. The football team alone brings in about 50 million dollars a year. Profits from football funds most of the other sports. They are not dependent on state or federal tax money to fund their athletic programs.
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