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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 01:22 PM
Original message
Oh, come on "24" producers (spoiler alert)
Yes, I like the program. A fast-paced program that keeps me at the edge of my seat. Really, torturing is not the main issue; rather it is the presence of traitors at the highest levels of government (which I've always thought would resonate with DUers...).

:evilfrown:

And, yes, it has been known to stretch any credibility, like having Jack Bauer be clinically dead and quickly up and about fighting all within a couple of hours. Or cars moving from one end of LA Metro to another in less than an hour. Or detonating nuclear bomb around LA, several times...

But to have a group of well equipped terrorists - with weapons and electronic info - storm the White House, without a single Marine in site is preposterous. What, have they never watched "the West Wing" to see how Marines were stationed at every door? And on the roof?

Or to have the terrorists enter through a basement of the White House, while there is the highest level of alert?

I suspect that this will be the last season.

Still beats all the "reality" shows, including "American Idol."

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Champion Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, the logic flaws are rampant this season, it has truly jumped the shark
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. But 'Burn Notice' is so much better.
If you're going to have your credulity stretched, go for true quality!
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sweetpotato Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Bruce Campbell fan here
he's the reason to watch Burn Notice.
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footinmouth Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. We are loving this season of 24
Yes, I agree it's a bit far fetched but it has been keeping Mr. Foot & I entertained. Amazing how the terrorists had a waterproof laptop but poor Rene didn't even have a waterproof cell phone. I'm hoping Bill and Aaron make it through the rest of the season.
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JSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Waterproof laptop!
Ha! I didn't even think about that. It was just so hilarious to see those scary, scary terrorists storming through the halls, and there's the guy walking along with his nose buried in his laptop. He kinda reminded me of Doug E. Doug.

And regarding Renee -- it's so easy to forget that this show is supposed to take place in one day. There's Renee leaping tall buildings in a single bound, so to speak, just a few hours after having been buried alive!!! (and her makeup is still perfect)

In past seasons I have actually gotten swept up in whatever crazy plot line. This year, although I am enjoying it, I am watching strictly for entertainment. Jumped the shark, it has.

One last thing -- at least they made the woman Prez a tough broad and she didn't fall apart "like a girl" when the white house was stormed.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Yes, I hope in this case there is an example to follow
After all, it was in "24" when we first met a credible, decent leader who happened to be an African American. Let's hope that in the not too distance future we will have a woman president.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think it is just a way to get the ear of liberals
to convince them that torture is sometimes necessary, moral and legal.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Propaganda
Disgusting show! :thumbsdown:
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. It's a TV show
I'm just as much against torture as I was before I ever watched the show. In fact, the moral conflicts when it comes to tortures are a prominent part of this season.
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FriendlyReminder Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. I thought Sutherland had 2 more contract seasons after this one
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I think he only has one season left
I remember hearing that the eighth season would be the last.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. Give me "Life on Mars" any day of the week
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Bad news on that front.
Read yesterday that "Life on Mars" was canceled :(

ABC will run all 17 episodes, but no second season. Sucks ass, I thought it was a great show.

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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. Aw fuck
Edited on Wed Mar-04-09 12:32 AM by sakabatou
Well... at least I have my anime.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. well real life is stranger than fiction.
you say:

"But to have a group of well equipped terrorists - with weapons and electronic info - storm the White House, without a single Marine in site is preposterous. What, have they never watched "the West Wing" to see how Marines were stationed at every door? And on the roof?"

I say:

to have a passenger laden jet turn and head into the pentagon without any cameras catching it and without one defensive missile being shot from the most heavily defended building in the country......(among other things) is just plain unbelievable.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Suspension of disbelief
That was one of the most suspenseful and best episodes of 24 I've ever seen (minus the nail-biting fests of seasons 1 and 2).

They used that cliché where all of the bumbling secret service agents get massacred, but they had to to make it work I guess.

Of course it could never happen. Doesn't mean it wasn't a good episode.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I have watched all of them and this was the first one that I remember,
in the back of my mind thinking about this lack of credibility.

I also had to wonder why not grab the cell phone of that aide to the senator and read all the texts and get all the numbers with the contacts.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. 24 is so bad it's good this season.
That was a nail-biter last night... totally unbelievable and I loved every minute of it.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. I liked the show inititally (first two seasons). I thought it was well-produced,
very well-acted, good storytelling, and I have no objection to people dealing with their fears or excruciating dilemmas through fiction. Goes all the way back to Sophocles and Euripides and Greek drama--the deliberate stimulation of fear and horror, for emotional cleansing. Also, I'm a First Amendment fundamentalist: no censorship. I don't think we can easily judge the impact of fiction on anyone--even children. The famous "holocaust" psychologist Bruno Bettelheim said that children need scary fairy tales, with monsters, etc., to deal with their fears.

After a while, I got tired of 24's adrenalin rush--fun at first, ultimately tiresome--and I never liked the "blondes in peril" segments (maybe because the blondes were such annoying washouts--other roles/actors in the show were anything but dull). The way I watched it, you could just fast-forward through the "blondes in peril" parts, and I wouldn't say they dominated the show. What dominated the show was masses of people being in peril, in different scenarios, including from traitors within our own government--just Americans in peril, not others--and I suppose this could be construed as a general political statement, since our real government, at the time, was truly slaughtering a million people to get their oil, and here we were, all concerned about ourselves, and fictional scenarios of people threatening Los Angeles with nukes, etc. I don't know that that--or any of it--was intended as a political statement. God knows they won't be the first Hollywood producers to ignore the pain and death of masses of other people at U.S. hands. I tend to think that the creative artists--not the corpo moneyed interests--predominated in creating the show (partly because it was so well done), and the creative people were feeling all the fear vibes of the Bush Junta, and thus portrayed those fear vibes in fictional scenarios.

I don't know for sure. There could have been an agenda to justify our secret government, torture and extrajudicial killings, etc. But our hero, Jack Bauer--a sort of modern Clint Eastwood (individualist, action-oriented)--as often as not ran up against scumbags and traitors in our own government, including the president, and within his own highly secret, CIA-like organization. If you separate the character from the political context--and from particular brutal or illegal actions that he sometimes commits--you could conceivably say that the character was teaching people to think for themselves. I know there's a fine line here, re: "taking the law into your own hands." But what IS the law if you are tracking a nuclear bomb over Los Angeles? A difficult problem.

I think that the show adequately portrays the unreliability, crimes and bad motives of some in government, to point to the Bushwhacks' total bullshit about "the war on terror." In other ways, though, it reinforces violent "secret government" methods of dealing with threats, from within or without. Our democracy is portrayed as extraneous to these secret proceedings and struggles, and, while that may be quite accurate, as to how things really are, there is no notion presented in the show (that I can remember) that it should be otherwise. The masses are "the civilians." We are just peons, victims, "blondes in peril," whom the Jack Bauer's of this world are passionately committed to protecting. And the truth must be kept from us--we couldn't take it; we might get all fussy and whiney about civil rights and the "rule of law," and thus we would be destroyed by the bad guys. It is never suggested that democracy, when it is functioning properly, when it is real, both prevents government from inflicting harm on others (thus creating "terrorists"), and creates honest, efficient, effective policing, to deal with any such threats.

The show does, indeed, accept the premise that we need a secret government to protect us from ourselves--from our own permissiveness and liberality--and when that secret government fails, we need Jack Bauer heroes to override even them, and act on their own. But the James Bond novels and movies also have this premise, as do a host of other fictional stories. It is really not fair to blame 24 in particular for it--if blame is even the right word, since a secret government exists--it is the reality of our era, since the 1950s.

The torture thing was riveting, but it is only one series of episodes, within the larger show. And, once again, in the real world, our president and his cohorts were torturing people. So there is a certain gritty realism to it. The 24 writers, however, treat deliberate torture as rare, and as justified. It was a very, very different story with the Bushwhacks--massive torture of many innocents, and torture of possible terrorists for we know not what purpose--and the secrecy now, and shredding of tapes, etc., and the pervasive use of torture, point to ill purpose.

24 addresses the serious issue of our collective fears and dread during the Bush era. If anything, it makes you think about our secret government and what they might be up to, and have been up to. And it presents us with a hero who is able to judge things for himself, think for himself and act on his own judgement of things, despite any consequences to himself. He is physically and mentally brave. And he never does things for his own benefit. Never! That may be unrealistic, but it's not a bad heroic model.

24 has gone on too long--which successful shows tend to do. As I said, I lost interest by Season 3. It doesn't surprise me that they are stretching improbabilities now, to the breaking point--to try to enhance the "thrill" factor. But neither is that without precedent. Charles Dickens did the same thing.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-03-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Interesting analysis
I agree that the quality has been going down. However this year it is back in a great form. First, the question of torture is being dealt with, with Jack Bauer himself saying that the American people need to know what is being done in their name. But also, a major story here is a fictional country in Africa under a ruthless leader who kills his own people and Jack was there - in the prequel - to deliver several children to their sponsors in our country, surrendering himself to the authorities in order to accomplish this goal.

And the new president, a woman, is set on a mission to invade that African country to save the people. And she is willing to pursue this in face of terror attacks and kidnapping of her own husband.

(Which, I have read a criticism, that the role of the President is to defend the citizens of this country, not to sacrifice them in order to save another..)
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Baikonour Donating Member (979 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-04-09 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
21. Not sure how it's better than American Idol.
Both are mindless Fox products.
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