Fighting the Republicans using the Bible? Questions for Christian DU'ers.

I don't know the Bible. So, a question for Christian DU'ers ... can you post some quotes from the New Testaments about the values taught by Christ? If we can make the case that Republican policies are contrary to the teachings of Christ, it would help shut them up.

Please post as many as you think are relevant to make our cases. That way, DU'ers who don't know the Bible can use this thread as a quick reference for including some of these quotes in our correspondence to members of Congress and letters to the editor.

Thanks!
:hi:

But I'm not Christian, so I really don't really take a position on killing.

link for you

http://www.jesusisaliberal.org/

As Rabbi Hillel said "That which is hateful to you, do not do to another. That is the whole of Torah - the rest is just commentary."

It's easy to find biblical reference that refute Republican positions. It's a waste of time. They'll just give you another one that seems to support them.

The Bible's a great thing if you're looking for quotes on just about anything, no matter which side you're on. It has been so used for centuries.

But moderates or independents I hope that maybe I can get them to think about how out of whack the right wing is.

but if you take on some fundamentalist Christian with this tactic, they will just quote one of the dozen or so verses they know and ignore what you have to say.

More reasonable Christians might listen, though.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."


Matthew 5:3-10

NGU.

Gospel According to Saint Matthew 22:36-40


36 Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. 38 This is the greatest and the first commandment. 39 And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/47022.htm

(yes, even the denominations that claim to preach the WORD of the Bible)

As such, for every passage that you could interpret as anti-Republican, they could find one to interpret as anti-Dem.

It's a lose/lose proposition.

There are over 271 references to either wine or "strong drink" in the Bible--256 for wine alone. There are 75 passages telling you not to get shitfaced. But ask a fundie what Jesus says about wine and you'll be told the 75 references prove Jesus hated alcohol and it's against His will to drink any...totally disregarding the 256 that say it's fine in moderation. And never mind 1 Timothy 5:23, which tells you to not drink water! (Yea, that should go over REAL well with the state troopers at weigh stations...)

It's theologically conservative, politically liberal.

Also check out the Catholic Workers Movement. Here's the first para from Wikipedia:

The Catholic Worker Movement is a collection of autonomous<1> communities of Catholics founded by Dorothy Day and Peter Maurin in 1933. Its aim is to "live in accordance with the justice and charity of Jesus Christ."<2> One of its guiding principles is hospitality towards those on the margin of society. To this end, the Catholic Worker movement claims over 185 local Catholic Worker communities providing social services.<3> Each house has a different mission, going about the work of social justice in their own ways, suited to their local region. Catholic Worker houses are not official organs of the Roman Catholic Church. The group also campaigns for nonviolence and is active in opposing war, as well as the unequal distribution of wealth globally. Dorothy Day also founded The Catholic Worker newspaper, still published and sold for a penny a copy. The group began as a means to combine Dorothy Day's history in American social activism, anarchism, and pacifism with the tenets of Catholicism (including a strong current of distributism), five years after her 1927 conversion.<4> Day, who died in 1980, is currently under consideration for sainthood by the Catholic Church.

"Our rule is the works of mercy," said Dorothy Day. "It is the way of sacrifice, worship, a sense of reverence."

would show the RW for the hypocrites they are.


Matthew 7
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

you've done it to me. ...need more?

a BIL "what if the others did not want to be done unto? For example, Iraqi civilians probably did not want the bombs falling on their heads. Now, should we expect to be done unto likewise?"

BIL stopped talking with me and walked away.

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'

Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'

He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'

And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

n/t

I do a lot of work with a United Methodist Church, plus am the chair of a county wide peace and justice project...it just kills me how the gop twists the bible to their warped values!

one stanza and twist it to where it means the exact opposite of the scripture. And I used that word "demonic" just to show how some people will use religious tenets to capture power. I think of the KKK, which is about as satanic and organization as there is, and they use those things to try and back the exact opposite of Christs teachings.

So KUDOS to you my friend for being on the front lines in taking back the faith from the faithless. Because that is what it is in the end, being faithless not faith based when people do that twisting to back their political points of view

I have no problems with how people want to promote themselves, just be honest with it.. and do not try and use religious tenets to promote the hate.

:hi:

Micah 6:8 Do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with your God.

Matthew 5 Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall inherit the earth.

Matthew What soever you to the least of these, that you do unto me.

Amos Let justice flow as a mighty water and integrity as a living stream.

OT Thou shalt not kill.

Psalm 51 Create in me a clean heart O God and renew a right spirit with in me

Specifically:
26:40 I tell you the truth, whatever you did for the least of men, you did for me.
26:45 I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for the least of men, you did not do for me.

Did you realize that Christ specifically preached against public prayer?



You will find that this chapter of Matthew (as well as Luke 11) condemns the public behavior of the the religious right, that they seem to ignore the actual words of Christ.

nor do they make any effort to do so. Pretty much across the board. Jesus said never swear an oath, and never to pray in public. Yet they demand that hate preachers pray in public before an oath in order to honor Chirst. That is the logic they use. If He said it, forget it. If He did not say it, then it is important.
Jesus taught nothing about gay folks, but said that divorce and remarriage is the same as prostitution. Yet John and Cindy McCain are called good Christians, and gay folk are hounded at every turn. That stupid Christ, forgot to bash gays!
In Acts chapter Two, we see how the friends of Jesus handled money and living arragnments. Such ways are condemned by 'christians' as being Marxist. Those idiotic apostles, they forgot to love money!
Jesus said that anything you do or say to the least among us is done to Jesus himself. He specifically includes the sick, prisoners regardless of guilt, the elderly, the poor...He says they ARE Him. And how one treats them is the key to one's future standing with the Divine.

We could spend hours doing this. But they don't care what Jesus taught, they only care about what gets them more status and money. They serve money, and one can not serve both God and money

5 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.

6 For the vile person will speak villainy, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry; and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.

7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.

8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.

The Churl being the GOP

Like the Bible doesn't say abortion is wrong...it says in a few places that God values human life in the womb...so they take that to mean Thou Shalt Not Kill applies to life in the womb.

They are fully aware at all times they are liars. THEY JUST DON"T CARE AND NEVER WILL. It's not worth the frustration.

There's a couple that come to mind for me. The first one is Matthew 23, where Christ warns about the scribes and pharisees. Here's the first few lines from that chapter,



And the other one that comes to mind is Matthew 7:1-5, in which Christ says to avoid judging others.



Alternatively, Luke 6:37-42 says pretty much the same thing.

and tell them how much they seem to be "just like the Pharisees that Jesus eviscerates in this passage"

Whoever exalts himself will be humbled; but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You lock the kingdom of heaven before human beings. You do not enter yourselves, nor do you allow entrance to those trying to enter.

10 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You traverse sea and land to make one convert, and when that happens you make him a child of Gehenna twice as much as yourselves.

11 "Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'If one swears by the temple, it means nothing, but if one swears by the gold of the temple, one is obligated.'
Blind fools, which is greater, the gold, or the temple that made the gold sacred?

18 And you say, 'If one swears by the altar, it means nothing, but if one swears by the gift on the altar, one is obligated.'
You blind ones, which is greater, the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?

20 One who swears by the altar swears by it and all that is upon it;
one who swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it;
one who swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who is seated on it.

23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You pay tithes 12 of mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier things of the law: judgment and mercy and fidelity. (But) these you should have done, without neglecting the others.

Blind guides, who strain out the gnat and swallow the camel!

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You cleanse the outside of cup and dish, but inside they are full of plunder and self-indulgence.

Blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of the cup, so that the outside also may be clean.

15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You are like whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men's bones and every kind of filth.
Even so, on the outside you appear righteous, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and evildoing.

16 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, 17 you hypocrites. You build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the memorials of the righteous, and you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have joined them in shedding the prophets' blood.' Thus you bear witness against yourselves that you are the children of those who murdered the prophets;
now fill up what your ancestors measured out!

You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of Gehenna?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Believe or not, you have to give Jesus some credit for knowing how to deal with hypocrites

from this part of the Bible for a few years now.

Really, the problem with god/religion/etc isn't Jesus at all. If everyone actually followed what Jesus said there would be peace on Earth and happiness all around. Unfortunately the people pushing his message the hardest are the ones twisting his words the most.

The words in red in the 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are the words of Jesus, so you don't have to read the entire gospels. Your should be able to easily do this in less than an hour. There is nothing like actually seeing it and reading it yourself rather than having it spoon fed to you by Christians. That way you will know yourself and you will be shocked when you read the actual words of Jesus and compare them to how many Christians practice their religion.

If I had to recommend one passage of the words of Jesus it would be Matthew 25: 34-46



It doesn't matter if you believe the Bible or not, but if you use the source book for Christian Republicans then you will give them something they will find hard to answer.

His regular feature is a detailed criticism of the 'Left Behind' books - literary, theologically and political - but he also often posts about ethics and the use of the Bible for justification. He's a liberal evangelical (think Jimmy Carter, as a starting point), who even got listed in a Top 30 Atheist/Agnostic/Skeptical Blogs list (and said thank you for it).

His latest post, for instance, is an examination of what the New Testament has to say about "going to Hell". His conclusion: what little there is says it's for ignoring the poor, rather than anything about your religious beliefs or claims.

http://slacktivist.typepad.com/

You might try the "word search" tool on www.blueletterbible.org

Isaiah 58:6-7
Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh?

Isaiah 10:1-2
Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed; To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!

Proverbs 22:16, 22-23
He that oppresses the poor to increase his riches, and he that gives to the rich, shall surely come to want.

Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate: For the LORD will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them.

Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

i've bookmarked this thread for future reference. Really appreciate all the information and references!

I believe he called them a den of thieves, or something to that effect, and then made a whip and went to town on them.

If Jesus was driven to violence towards these people (bankers), imagine what kind of leeway that gives us. :)

rely far more on the Old Testament and the epistles of that old misogynist Paul than they do on the words of Jesus as set out in the Gospels. I don't think the fundies are Jesus-followers at all.