Coming up on CNBC: should the government BAILOUT Madoff's victims?

Would love to hear some DU'ers opinions. I say only if everyone else gets their 401K's, 527's etc. restored.

Definitely not. Not even if everyone else gets their 401K's, 527's, etc. restored.

equal treatment for 401K, IRA, 527, pensions, .....

Is he going to deliver another one of his "unscripted" rants?

typo edit

never had enough money to. I see no reason why I should help pay for the lose of those who have. They knew there was a risk, it's the nature of the game.

gotten their hands on the Social Security - as they were clamoring for. You'd almost think they planned this...

401k retirement plans allow you to choose to hold the funds in a money market fund of cash and cash equivalents. If you chose to invest in the market in that 401k rather than hold the funds in cash then you voluntarily took on the market risk.

I do bonds and stocks, but the stock fund is a growth/dividend fund and i've got 70% going to bonds.

I don't want to trust fund managers with too much of my retirement money.
GAC

your problem with trust fund managers is ?????

Unlike investment managers, trust fund managers have a legal obligation to protect both current income recipients and future principal (residual) beneficiaries. That means they have to both generate income and protect principal. And residual beneficiaries can successfully sue for failure to do so. As a rule trust managers tend to be much less aggressive in their investment strategies than other investment managers. With respect to equity strategies, they tend to favor value investment strategies for long term principle growth and high yield dividends for present income generation - combined with laddered fixed income strategies, of course.

I suspect that you have confused the investment managers responsible for managing mutual funds with trust fund managers who manage trust accounts. A mutual fund such as what you might hold in your 401k is not a trust account. Two different animals. There are a lot of similarities between the two tyhpes of investment managers - but they do have different legal duties and obligations which definitely affect their strategies.

. . .there are various people managing bits and pieces, rather than counting on one highly aggressive fund mgr. trying to maximize returns.

I don't trust that most of them are all that astute. I think too much of success in that field is luck. Not 100% for sure, but a little too high for my comfort.

So, if i spread my money around in 6 different funds with 3 different companies, there are fewer chances that bad luck will cost me much.

And, while i appreciate your abilities, i don't need a lecture in finance. Everything you explained, i knew completely before i read your post.
GAC

I'll not bother my little head with making further commentary directed toward you seeing as how you have all the answers and do not appreciate it. No need to waste the time or effort.

That said, I'm guessing I have far more training and experience in both law and finance than you. Three graduate and professional degrees including a law degree and an MBA with a concentration in finance - and I have worked as an investment manager and as a trust manager - a distinction you have proven yourself to be unwilling or unable to make.

Welcome to my ignore list.

getting back their taxes for bogus profits.

Those they are due.

If they paid taxes on money they were TOLD they had made, but which they did NOT actually make, then yes...the paid taxes should be refunded.

People who took money out, thinking it was profit and paid taxes on it. In many cases they took out less than their original investment (money that was never really invested) so they should get their taxes back.

I heard of one case where someone gave him a million dollars and received 100K every year for 10 years. The initial million investment was gone, but taxes were paid on each 100k payment.

No.

Investment managers and mutual funds report taxable capital gains all the time - without the client receiving an actual cash distribution or making a withdrawal.

I own some mutual funds. I did not receive any cash distributions or make any withdrawals. But they all reported dividends and capital gains to the IRS for last year. And I am paying taxes on those- even though the funds declined in value. There is nothing new or surprising about this. It has been true for decades.



Edit to clarify: Dividends are either paid out in cash distributions or reinvested. Capital gains within an investment fund are the result of trading activity and need not result in any cash distribution. The fund or investment manager opts to sell something and realize a gain in order to invest the funds in something else. This is normal everyday investment management activity - that does have taxable conquences.

my - and others' - attention.

and was quite upset at the thought

They bought in to something that was too good to be true and got bitten. Sorry it happened, but also tough cookies.
GAC

But of course the real crime of the century will go unpunished and the real victims unlamented.

What they should do, though, is get back any and all monies from anyone associated with Madoffs scheme including son-in-laws, neices, sons, freinds etc...

were in any way involved in the scheme, that would not be right. Any individual that played a part in the scheme, however, is fair game.

A robber is laden with sacks of money. He is running from the cops. He feels himself slowing, and decides to drop one of the heavier bags and try to get away with his life. He tosses the bag aside, at the feet of a bystander. The bystander picks up the bag of cash.

It is now wrong for the cops to take that bag of cash from the bystander?

If they were involved, in any way, which includes receiving the ill gotten gains... that's fair game and go get it. What I said is you can't go after them or their assets simply on the basis that they are related to or friends with the guy.

If your friend or brother robbed that bank (and you didn't know about it or receive any of the stolen money), what kind of of police state would we be living in if the cops could come after you because you were related to or friends with the perpetrator?

The authorities should be tracking down those funds no matter where they went. If that trail leads to the family or some friends of Madoff, they should be prosecuted and have their assets seized. But right now the authorities don't seem to have a clue where billions of investors' dollars are.

I thought you meant that once it was in a relative/friend's hands, it was gone like a peek-a-boo baby.

We've lost a bunch, but unless the government is willing to reimburse all of us in similar situations then my answer would be no.

I do believe that every last cent should be sucked from the Madoff's holdings down to the last diamond, painting and pair of shoes.

Kudlow is quoting NYT Joe Nocera saying investors needed to do due diligence. Another guest says, "Their were red flags. There was so much information out there."

I do have some level of compassion for these people.

But what bugs me is that some of them are whining and moaning that, oh, alas!, I have to sell my beach front property now that Madoff made off with my money.

Poor dears....too bad!

I think if anything it should be a case by case basis.

But in general, I say HELL. TO. THE. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not unless the rest of the country who were robbed by greedy jerks gets their's too!

If his wife ends up as a WalMart greeter, too fucking bad. it's not her money.