Go Directly to Jail..Do Not Pass Go..Do Not Collect $165 Million Dollars

What Tim Geitner should have told the crooks ...um I mean execs at AIG...

:eyes:

it's not a matter of whether this was "a secret" - in fact that that it was NOT a secret only makes Geitner MORE not less culpable.

He should have told these people to drop dead and sue us.

No jury would pay dime one and it would give the Justice Department an excuse to crawl up all their asses with a microscope for the purposes of discovery under defending the government.

I'm not interested in excuses.

Geitner has to go.

Doug D.

They found an unregulated area in the SEC rules and they exploited it.

Things don't get THIS screwed up with out a few laws being broken.

...leaving a huge portion of the industry completely unregulated.

That's malfeasance on the government's part, but it's not a violation of the law by the companies that took advantage of it.

I'm sure that some of them were broken - wire fraud, mail fraud, securities fraud, money laundering, and conspiracy come to mind immediately.

What they did may have caused harm, but it was completely legal...no need to commit fraud or launder money.....and if you're not breaking any law, you can't be guilty of conspiracy.


This was a regulation issue, not an issue of laws being broken.

that is fraud.

Naked short selling also is illegal as far as I have ever heard.

From the wikitubes on short selling:

In the United States, naked short selling is covered by various SEC regulations which prohibit the practice.<3> In 2005, "Regulation SHO" was enacted, requiring that broker-dealers have grounds to believe that shares will be available for a given stock transaction, and requiring that delivery take place within a limited time period.<4><5> As part of its response to the crisis in the North American markets in 2008, the SEC issued a temporary order restricting short-selling in the shares of 19 financial firms deemed systemically important, by reinforcing the penalties for failing to deliver the shares in time.<6> Effective September 18, 2008, amid claims that aggressive short selling had played a role in the failure of financial giant Lehman Brothers, the SEC extended and expanded the rules to remove exceptions and to cover all companies.<7><7><8>

Nixon said he didn't break any laws either. I would bet there is more graft and embezzlement than you could put in a steam shovel?

and that is illegal as far as I know.

In fact, it goes on with the SEC's blessing.

isn't illegal.

Sorry but nobody believes that.

That just means that those in charge of enforcement aren't doing their jobs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF83wwij828

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HYq6kdseV8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-DOwLnQ4nk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvVJ7U-TekE

In the United States, naked short selling is covered by various SEC regulations which prohibit the practice.<3> In 2005, "Regulation SHO" was enacted, requiring that broker-dealers have grounds to believe that shares will be available for a given stock transaction, and requiring that delivery take place within a limited time period.<4><5> As part of its response to the crisis in the North American markets in 2008, the SEC issued a temporary order restricting short-selling in the shares of 19 financial firms deemed systemically important, by reinforcing the penalties for failing to deliver the shares in time.<6> Effective September 18, 2008, amid claims that aggressive short selling had played a role in the failure of financial giant Lehman Brothers, the SEC extended and expanded the rules to remove exceptions and to cover all companies.<7><7><8>

think of it this way...

I used to work in the supermarket business where I had access to tens of thousands of dollars in cash from the daily receipts.

Suppose I "borrowed" some of that cash flew to Atlantic City with it, counted cards, won more than I lost and flew back and then put my employer's money back into the safe in time for it in time for it to be deposited, kept the "profit" and he was none the wiser.

That's precisely what naked short selling is - it's gambling with assets that are not yours and putting them back hopefully in time not to get caught.

The SEC has said it is market manipulation and illegal.

Doug D.

You buy shares hoping they'll increase in value. You hold them in a margin account.

Market makers can "borrow" those shares to short the stock.


It happens all of the time....and it's not illegal.

normal short selling you need actual shares - naked short selling is making that transaction then 'failing to deliver' the shares when called on them. It's a form of fraud, by short selling you are saying you have the shares to sell at the current price, so you can buy them back later at a lesser price to return them from the person you borrowed them from. Naked short selling means they haven't actually secured shares to transact with.