Paranormal groups charging hundreds of dollars for investigations - how is this not fraud?

http://www.beyondrealityevents.com/mtwashington2/BRRticketpurchase.html

For the low, low price of $339, you can join the hucksters from "Ghost Hunters" on a ghost hunt!


But hey, if you don't really like those guys, there are still plenty of other charlatans just waiting to take your hard-earned money! Their MO is always the same. They pick a place that is "haunted". They know for a fact that it's haunted because they've done their own investigations and collected their own "proof"! They bring in a couple of "special guests" - who generally happen to be other hacks who have either appeared on some third-rate cable show, or who have written some book.

What I want to know is how is this not considered fraud? These people are charging HUNDREDS of dollars by claiming something that doesn't even exist, manufacturing their own "evidence" to convince their fans that there really are ghosts, etc. Does this mean that I can go out into the woods, plant a couple of fake Bigfoot prints, videotape a friend of mine running around in a giant ape costume, and then charge hundreds of dollars for Bigfoot hunts? My guess is that I'd be shut down in a heartbeat, yet these con artists have turned the paranormal into a thriving cottage industry, relying on the naivete and gullibility of their fans.

We never asked for a penny. If anyone wants their house investigated for paranormal activity, there are plenty of local investigative units all over the country who will help free of charge. This is highway robbery based on a famous name.

This is a " join us at the washington mtn hotel for a weekend of investigation and speakers" sort of thing.

I thought it was the paranormal investigators doing the charging for a sweep of the hotel. :smackhead:

Thanks. :hi:

And anyone that doesn't believe as he does deserves to be ridiculed.

This isn't simply a "meet & greet" or convention. They're picking places that they deem haunted - based on THEIR evidence - and then using that to attract people who want to experience ghostly activity for themselves. Is it a coincidence that they're hyping some "EVP" that they captured in this location?

It is a social gathering and it is an investigation. It is an event for those interested in paranormal investigations and a chance for people with the same interest to share experiences and information. There are a number of different speakers and events.

Why do you care what other people are interested in?

It's 2009, we should be beyond the point of believing in boogeymen, gods in the sky sending people to hell, ghosties, goblins, etc. I just have a problem with people embracing Middle Ages beliefs, we need to progress.

And I don't have a problem so much with the people attending these events, as much as I do with the con artists who are blatantly taking advantage of them. Same reason I absolutely despise organized religion for telling people that they have to abide by a certain set of rules if they don't want to burn forever.

Well, isn't it?

If you're dumb enough to believe in that shit you were just going to waste that money anyway.

I'd call it the PT Barnum tax.

wouldn't go with the expectation of seeing anything paranormal, but if I did that would be cool too.

Especially when the customers are willing participants?

Especially the guys from Ghost Hunters, they've been exposed faking evidence several times. SciFi doesn't care because the show still gets decent ratings - no doubt based primarily on their ability to consistently deliver "results".

I think if it could be somehow proven that they faked evidence at one of these places where they're charging hundreds of bucks, then you could make the case that they are committing fraud by deceiving their customers.

If they want to host their own convention, and charge people to come by and get autographs, that's one thing. But charging people hundreds of bucks to investigate a place that they claim is haunted based on their own evidence seems really fishy. Even if it's not technically or legally fraud, it's still morally and ethically completely unacceptable.

Why do you care?

And it's not simply my "belief" that TAPS fakes their evidence, they've been caught doing this repeatedly. This group is in it for the sole purpose of raking in as much $$$ as they can from an audience that is easily duped. They know that their fanbase is rabidly loyal, and will swallow anything they tell them.

YOU are the one deciding that what they believe is false.

I am willing to bet not one person in attendance gives a shit what YOU think about their hobbies and I also bet none of them would spend any time ridiculing and taunting you for YOUR beliefs.

I don't see what part you think they are faking.

If they remain convinced that the money was well-spent, no, there's no case, because there's no party bringing charges.

Regardless, it's still fraud.

Turns out the whole "non-profit" thing has been a sham:

http://www.skepticalanalysis.com/reports/ghosts/taps.html

I've seen that before, but didn't have a link for it. If this group is willing to lie about their non-profit status, then why is it so unreasonable to believe that they would lie about anything else? If they don't produce "results", then their precious TV show gets cancelled. Same with any other paranormal TV show, nobody wants to just watch people stumbling around in the dark. You either produce or you don't have a show.

I've got mixed feelings on this. Part of me says that the gullible deserve to be fleeced. But then I realize that those gullible fools might be spending their family's grocery money on various forms of woo and quackery, and maybe do deserve protection from themselves.

But I certainly agree with you that there's no "there" there.

Sid

fun to go out with.

You're NOT paying for the chance to see a "real ghost". You are paying for an entertaining experience and the chance to be on TV.

Some people are just so set on preventing anyone from doing anything they don't deem acceptable.

It's like a seminar.

There are speakers and events.

People have different beliefs and hobbies then you do.

So long as they make claims about things that cannot be observed or otherwise tested, how could fraud be proved? It would be like charging a church with fraud for selling indulgences -- how could it be shown that the indulgences didn't work?

Where do I sign up? If some folk are dumb enough to give money out for that sort of thing I think I'd like my cut.

Q3JR4.
Doesn't believe in ghosts, goblins, gods, angles, or any mystic powers, but will take money for his efforts.

Charge them a few hundred bucks, tell them to bring their own cameras, and then just take them on a hike through the woods. Can't get much easier than that!

See, the screen got all static-y, THERE, did you see it.

See, how dare you mock real investigative professionals!
There it goes again! did you see it?

No, I am not making this up:

Florida's citrus crop contributes billions of dollars to the state's economy, so when that industry is threatened, anything that might help is considered. Back in 2001, when citrus canker was blighting the crop and threatening to reduce that vital source of revenue, an interesting — if not quite scientific — alternative was considered.

Katherine Harris, then Florida's secretary of state — and now a member of the U.S. House of Representatives — ordered a study in which, according to an article by Jim Stratton in the Orlando Sentinel, "researchers worked with a rabbi and a cardiologist to test ‘Celestial Drops,' promoted as a canker inhibitor because of its ‘improved fractal design,' ‘infinite levels of order,' and ‘high energy and low entropy.'"

The study determined that the product tested was, basically, water that had apparently been blessed according to the principles of Kabbalic mysticism, "chang its molecular structure and imbu it with supernatural healing powers."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10054116/

So why did Florida spend months discussing and developing test protocols for Celestial Drops?

The initial push came from Harris, now a U.S. House representative and candidate for U.S. Senate. Harris, the granddaughter of legendary citrus baron Ben Hill Griffin Jr., said she was introduced to one of the product’s promoters, New York Rabbi Abe Hardoon, in 2000.

***

One document in the state’s files indicates an official had searched the Internet for information on Hardoon and Spokojny and discovered both practiced Kabbalah, a religious movement whose followers include celebrities such as Madonna. Hardoon also teaches Kabbalah.

Mystically blessed water is a vital part of the faith and is sold for $3.80 a bottle at Kabbalah centers throughout the country.

http://southernstudies.org/2005/07/katherine-harriss-kabbalah-cure.html

Why worry about it? To each his own.

I know some people who are into New Age stuff.

I got sick when I went to a psychic fair and a lady was selling "aura photographs".

There was a box that looked like a hard drive. It had an outline of a hand on top of it with the fingers somewhat apart, and you put your hand on it and it "read" your aura. And she printed out a color picture with a photo printer.

:banghead: :grr: :banghead: :grr:


I was pissed because I was attempting to sell jewelry that I had made. Tangible, physical objects that had love and creative energy put into them.

But noooo, some guy came by, picked up some of my beads, and told me I shouldn't be selling beads with animal bones in them, cuz that was some sort of bad juju.

ARGGGHHH!!!

:wtf: :banghead: :grr: