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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:06 PM
Original message
Panic in Detroit
This is an article from November, but it's timely today.


Panic in Detroit by Jonathan Cohn
This is not your father's Oldsmobile we're rescuing.
Post Date Friday, November 14, 2008

General Motors has come to Washington, begging for a $25 billion bailout to keep it and its ailing Detroit counterparts going next year. But nobody seems too thrilled about the prospect. Liberals dwell on the companies' gas-guzzling sport-utility vehicles. Conservatives obsess over all the well-paid union members with gold-plated benefits. And people of all ideological backgrounds remember how they used to buy domestic cars, years ago, but stopped because the cars were so damn lousy. "The downfall of the American auto industry is indeed a tragedy," the Washington Post editorial board sermonized recently, "but the automakers and the United Auto Workers have only themselves to blame for much of it." And, if they have only themselves to blame, the argument goes, why do they deserve taxpayer help? Let them fail and file for bankruptcy. In the long run, the economy will be stronger and the workers better off. It'd be worth?the short-term pain, which might not even be so severe.
In normal times, with another company, that might be correct. But these are not normal times, just as GM is not any old company. Nor is the simple economic morality tale everybody repeats about the auto industry accurate. Detroit has come a long way since the days of wide lapels and disco. GM, Ford, and Chrysler are taking precisely the sorts of steps everybody says are necessary--or, at least, they were taking those steps until an unexpected trifecta of high gas prices, vanishing credit, and a deep recession hit. Rescuing the auto industry is not, as so many people suppose, a question of giving Detroit one extra shot at transformation. It's a question of giving Detroit a chance to finish a transformation that was already underway.

One reason for the casual support for letting GM fail is the assumption that bankruptcy would be no big deal: As USA Today editorialized recently, "Bankruptcy need not mean that the company disappears." But, while it's worked out that way for the airlines, among others, it's unlikely a GM business failure would play out in the same fashion. In order to seek so-called Chapter 11 status, a distressed company must find some way to operate while the bankruptcy court keeps creditors at bay. But GM can't build cars without parts, and it can't get parts without credit. Chapter 11 companies typically get that sort of credit from something called Debtor-in-Possession (DIP) loans. But the same Wall Street meltdown that has dragged down the economy and GM sales has also dried up the DIP money GM would need to operate.

That's why many analysts and scholars believe GM would likely end up in Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which would entail total liquidation. The company would close its doors, immediately throwing more than 100,000 people out of work. And, according to experts, the damage would spread quickly. Automobile parts suppliers in the United States rely disproportionately on GM's business to stay afloat. If GM shut down, many if not all of the suppliers would soon follow. Without parts, Chrysler, Ford, and eventually foreign-owned factories in the United States would have to cease operations. From Toledo to Tuscaloosa, the nation's?assembly lines could go silent, sending a chill through their local economies as the idled workers stopped spending money.

Restaurants, gas stations, hospitals, and then cities, counties, and states--all of them would feel pressure on their bottom lines. A study just published by the Michigan-based Center for Automotive Research (CAR) predicted that three million people would lose their jobs in the first year after such a Big Three meltdown, swelling the ranks of the unemployed by nearly one-third nationally and leading to hundreds of billions of dollars in lost income. The Midwest would feel the effects disproportionately, but the effect would reach into every community with a parts supplier or factory--and, to a lesser extent, into every town and city with a dealership. In short, virtually every community in the country would be touched.

<snip>
Lots more at link: http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=a4893b49-36df-4784-9859-2dfa3a3211bf


I found this quote later in the article to be particularly prescient: "It appears as if President-elect Obama and the Democratic leadership in Congress are thinking along those lines already (although it'll be surprising if they demand concessions from unions that just played such a big role in electing them)."
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Would this be called biting the hand that elected them?
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes.
And I can tell you, the general mood in the Detroit Metro Area tonight is "seriously pissed off".

As for the article above, I found it very interesting that many are speculating that GM wouldn't be able to do an 11. A GM chapter 7 would be DEVASTATING.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Oy.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. we truly need to retain heavy manufacturing capabilities in this nation
eventually peak oil will make shipping shit from china will be cost prohibitive.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I can't even imagine an America that doesn't have an auto industry.
Nor do I want to.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. imagine america before there were autos
streetcar america, passenger train america, walking america.

we will survive.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kick for the evening crowd
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. This article addresses the objection I have.
Everyone, including the administration, seems to be taking the idea of a GM bankruptcy far too lightly. It is bound to be a long, protracted and painful affair with a very uncertain outcome. even if GM survives, they will certainly take a huge hit to their customer base.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Everyone agrees that would be awful.
At the same time, GM has to show an ability to pay off the money we're supposed to loan it. It has to show that it can make money.

If it can't make money, then bankruptcy and reorganization are its fate.

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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Have the banks shown that ability?
Edited on Mon Mar-30-09 11:36 PM by nonconformist
I honestly haven't even seen where they've been ASKED to show it.

Do you even remotely understand how far-reaching a GM bankruptcy would be? "its fate"
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yes. The business model of a bank is pretty damn simple.
Over the long haul, banks either get bigger, go out of business, or get swallowed up by other banks.

Remember that a lot of financial instutions DID go belly-up:

Wachovia
Washington Mutual
Lehman
Bear

None of those companies exist anymore.

The financial sector and automotive sector are completely different animals. The financial sector exists to make sure money circulates in the economy and that's it. Financial companies spring up all the time. Some make fantastic profits. Others fail spectacularly. But, the system itself has to be maintained, or our entire economy crashes.

For instance, General Motors itself needs to be able to borrow money to operate. If there's no one to lend it money, it goes out of business.

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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Don't talk to me like I'm stupid.
And right, they fail all the time. BUT WE WERE TOLD that AIG, Citibank and Bank of America were too big to fail. Then we gave them HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Guess what, they're still not lending.

And the banking model used to be a whole lot more simple before they added in all of the derivatives and whatnot that brought those companies (and the economy) to it's knees. I've never seen anywhere where AIG had to prove they were viable before they were handed nearly 200 billion dollars.

It's the double standard. Pure and simple. And GM IS too big to fail.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well, that's the thing.
All the banks need to do is stop with the crazy derivatives shit, and they'll make money again.

What does GM have to do to make money?


We didn't 'give' TARP money to any of the banks. That TARP money will have to be repaid some day--in fact a lot of banks are wanting to pay it back quickly just to get the US out of their affairs. The entire point of the TARP program was to increase liquidity into the larger economy, and you really can't do that without injecting large sums of cash into the financial institutions.



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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. GM has to sell cars
Edited on Tue Mar-31-09 05:46 AM by nonconformist
But guess what? Nobody is buying cars right now, from ANYONE. Why? Because the economy is in the shithouse, thanks to the banks.

Japan subsidized its auto industry, because if they didn't they would have failed. Interesting.
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inwiththenew Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. GM has to restructure
No doubt about it. Whether that mean bankruptcy or not we will see. I hope they do not declare bankruptcy that would be a very bad day for a lot of people, even chapter 11. At this point though I am not sure how viable they are in their current shape. The government has loaned them money and they are back for more, but at this point it would be like they have a hole in their boat and instead of plugging it we give them a bigger bucket to dump out the water.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. But it's okay to keep giving more and more money to
the banks and AIG? Seems like a double-standard to me.
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. yep thats the meme of the day here on DU n/t
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
17. to me I can't see why the unions would be surprised by
someone asking them for concessions, when you're on the losing team it sucks. npr had a report on gm about a year ago and even one of the employees admitted that he was getting way too much to just drive a fork lift.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-31-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. That's funny. Did Obama demand concessions from AIG and Citi employees?
Oh, right. No he didn't.

"admitted that he was getting way too much to just drive a fork lift."

More Rightwing propaganda. :puke:
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