Ineligible Bachelors: Indian Men Living in U.S. Strike Out

Source: Wall Street Journal

Ineligible Bachelors: Indian Men Living in U.S. Strike Out
Brides and Parents Back Home Get Picky as Economy Makes America Look RiskyArticle

By SHEFALI ANAND
Vikas Marwaha would normally be considered a good catch by Indian parents seeking a husband for their daughter. The 27-year-old software engineer earns $80,000 to $100,000 a year and comes from a family "of doctors and engineers," according to his profile on a matrimonial Web site.

But Mr. Marwaha works for a start-up Internet phone company in San Francisco. And because the U.S. economy is wobbly, that's a problem. Many Indian parents now are balking at sending their daughters to the U.S. to marry.

During a two-week wife-hunting trip to India in December, Mr. Marwaha interviewed 20 potential brides in 10 days. He says several parents asked him, "How has the recession impacted your job?" Mr. Marwaha says he assured them


Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123896998996190775.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

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This is so sad - I feel like I trained my Indian replacement for nothing - I had so hoped his 'American Dream' would come true

It's just amazing how media will shed tears for people who replaced Americans, have a job, but arent 'finding happiness'

Sometimes the media's hatred for American workers is so absurd it's almost funny

>>Some brides simply see India as more livable these days. As salaries have gone up there, Indian married couples are able to afford houses, and young women with jobs have money of their own. In contrast, in the U.S., "people have to even clean their own toilets," says Hasit Dave, 55, who runs the Klassic Match Marriage Bureau in Ahmedabad, a city in the western Indian state of Gujarat.<<

:wtf: You mean, people in India don't clean their toilets?

It means people in India have maids to do that stuff

:mad:

Don't they have maids in other countries? I have a maid here in the US. No need to be xenophobic.

Perhaps you have read about the fight against it that Mahatma Gandhi launched (mentioned in my own post #23 here). Perhaps you have read about the affirmative action policies enshrined in the Indian constitution. Perhaps you have read about Bhimrao Ambedkar, a so-called Untouchable, who was the chief architect of this constitution, way back in the late 1940s, when segregation of even drinking water fountains was legal and acceptable in the US.

That they are mostly illiterate. And that the presence of so many millions of untouchables as well as the caste just above them (I forget the names) serve as nearly inexhaustible and very exploitable pools of virtual slave labor.

The Wikipedia page on Dalits (untouchables) can educate you further.

Quote from this page:


"...Many Hindu Dalits have achieved affluence in society, although vast millions still remain poor. In particular, some Dalit intellectuals such as Chandrabhan Prasad have argued that the living standards of many Dalits have improved since the economic liberalization in 1991 and have supported their claims through large qualitative surveys <32> <33>. Recent episodes of Caste-related violence in India have adversely affected the Dalit community. In urban India, discrimination against Dalits in the public sphere is greatly reduced, but rural Dalits are struggling to elevate themselves <34>. Government organizations and NGO's work to emancipate them from discrimination, and many Hindu organizations have spoken in their favor <35><36>. Some groups and Hindu religious leaders have also spoken out against the caste system in general <37><38>. However, the fight for temple entry rights for Dalits is far from finished and continues to cause controversy <39><40>. Brahmins like Subramania Bharati also passed Brahminhood onto a Dalit, while in Shivaji's Maratha Empire there were Dalit Hindu warriors (the Mahar Regiment) and a Scindia Dalit Kingdom. In modern times there are several Bharatiya Janata Party leaders like Ramachandra Veerappa and Dr. Suraj Bhan. (See List of Dalits)

More recently, Dalits in Nepal are now being accepted into priesthood (traditionally reserved for Brahmins. The Dalit priestly order is called "Pandaram"<41>...."

Do NOT stereotype a country or its culture. Yes, there are problems - vast ones, in a diverse society of 1.1 billion people. In this most affluent country on earth, there are African-Americans who live on the sidewalks in the freezing cold. They do not receive the schooling that rich white people get. They are the ones arrested and tortured by the police, and constitute the vast majority of the prison population.

Does this one-sided view give you a true picture of the US?

yes, I should have said "the vast majority live in horrific environments", that way I would include the handful that have escaped that situation.

Mea culpa.

that (former) untouchable equals poor.

If you knew much about the subject, you'd know that it was a social designation and not an economic one. The brahmins (the highest class) were actually the poorest because they were not supposed to pursue wealth and pursue knowledge.

Many former untouchables were extremely rich because of the nature of their trade -- e.g. cobbler. Their descendants who have pursued the same trades have remained wealthy.

By the way, India has had a former untouchable elected as prime minister and the current chief justice of India's supreme court is a former untouchable. More than a third of jobs and educational opportunities have been reserved for the former backward classes and in modern India, (except in some deep rural enclaves), castism has been eliminated for a long long time.

You really really really need to read more.

And you will note that this poster, in his/her response, does not answer my question as to whether my one-sided portrayal of the life of African-Americans gives a balanced view of the US.

I wonder if I should state that the "vast majority of African-Americans and Latinos live in horrific environments", and form a pool of exploitable labor (as the maids who come to clean houses in my middle-class neighborhood would indicate). Only a handful have escaped the 'situation', as the Barack Obama presidency illustrates.

There is an old saying I heard back in India: "There is no one so blind as one who will not see, and no one so deaf as one who will not hear". That certainly applies to the poster we are responding to.

You and one other person are trying your best to skate around this topic.

Fortunately there are groups in India working to turn these things around, and not whitewash them.

Is it mostly Brahmins who middle-class Indians are hiring to scrub toilets and do other menial tasks?

Can't you read what the poster said in what you are responding to? You are clearly told that many Brahmins are very poor, as they have worked as priests which does NOT provide them with much income. And so yes, there are poor Brahmin men and women who do not have the educational skills needed to get a high-paying job and work as servants/maids in other's homes. I do not have exact statistics about how many servants are Brahmins vs lower castes. But you obviously are not aware - not being from there - that many servants whose primary responsibility was cooking were Brahmins.

I repeat, we are not skating around the topic in any way - we are providing you with FACTS and EVIDENCE to tell you what the real situation is nowadays. Is it still a major problem? Yes, in the same sense that racism is still a major problem in the US, Barack Obama notwithstanding. We are telling you that it is a complex situation, trying to rectify a problem that has lasted for centuries. You PERSIST on not seeing, or speaking to both sides of the situation. Your posts started with the message - India is a terrible place, it makes every effort to keep a section of its people in unspeakable poverty, avoid the place like the plague, etc.

When you are told that you are wrong, the situation is much more complicated, and given facts about this, you choose to ignore it ("none so blind as those who will not see"), and stick with YOUR BIASES AND PRE-CONCEIVED NOTIONS.

Furthermore social mobility is increasing in India, while it's decreasing here.

Gotta love egalitarian India. :rofl:

Yes, in the old days, that was considered work for the so-called 'untouchables'. But that was one of the major issues that Mahatma Gandhi fought against. If anyone remembers the movie 'Gandhi', you would see that he asked his wife to clean the toilet, saying that no one should denigrate any kind of work.

You seem to think that is exclusively the case even nowadays, everywhere in India. The situation - especially in the cities - is no different than what exists in this country, where many have maid service to clean the toilets. I know plenty of middle class people (possibly upper middle class) where I live who have maid service that comes in a few times a month and clean the toilets. In India, more people (like my parents who are middle class by any standards) can afford to have someone come in for a few minutes every day to clean the toilets. They treat them just as fairly as most people who have maid service here treat them - that is, pay them regularly every month, and that is it. And on days they don't show up, my parents do the cleaning job themselves.

Amazing to see the extent of ignorance on this liberal board about other countries and cultures that are different from your own. Some people never seem to lose even the most minor opportunity to denigrate others. I have to say that I wonder if the level of contempt shown would be the same if the culture they were talking about was a 'white' one.

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Or indoor plumbing. Or access to clean water.

That's why sewage runs down the streets in the slums and why water-borne diseases are such a big problem over there.

most Indians live in slums? hahahaha

Most people in India should be counted as luck if they have plumbing.

But it is getting harder. 30 years ago, my parents could afford a maid who stayed most of the day, and did a whole lot of work. Now, they have people who come in for an hour a day, and charge by the job - X rupees to do the cleaning of the flat (condo), Y rupees to do the daily laundry for so many people, and so on.

The situation seems to be no different from what prevailed in Europe/US some decades ago. I read Agatha Christie's autobiography and she mentions the importance of finding good domestic help, even for a young couple just setting up their first home, with little money. I note that the Brady family in the Brady Bunch had a maid (they did not seem to be super-rich), etc. etc.

No need for your quotes. Middle-class people can afford domestic help, though not to the extent as they could several years ago. Middle-class people - office workers, mom-and-pop grocery store owners, nurses, etc.

I was addressing their qualifier.

And when I addressed the correction ("middle class"), I was quoting you.

So that's why I used the quotes.

In your reply, you seemed to convey a sense of surprise in the fact that rich people's kids move to other countries to get middle class jobs. I was conveying the message that the people under discussion were not rich, but middle class, and their kids were moving to other countries where middle class jobs paid salaries with more purchasing power. Quite a natural and normal thing to do, and something that should occasion no sense of surprise.

Were you acknowledging the correctness of this point? If so, I regret that I misread your intentions.

I never knew anyone who had a housekeeper or maid.

Poor people cannot even leave their villages.

Of course, the right people, as everywhere.

India from hiring a maid?

Maybe the wages are higher here for cleaning toilets than in India?

There is an enormous pool of people living in abject poverty, in conditions that would shock most here.

You might compare it to people here who exploit illegal immigrants, except there they can pay less and the people they exploit are legal residents of India.

I was on a cruise w/ a couple form India. Typical rising middle class tech workers. Since my field is tech we talked a lot at dinner table.

They seemed genuinely suprised as someone with a decent help I didn't have any domestic labor.

Their $30K income supported 4 servants (cook, lead servant/labor, 2 maids). I don't know how little they were paid but they were only a small portion of the estimated $30K family income. 4 full time workers.

Figure the equivelent in US would be
butler - $35
cook - $30
maidx2 - $20
total: $105

say for domestic help to be 10% of your income you would need to make $1mil+

So yeah a software engineer making $80K in CA is NOT going to be able to exploit the poor they way they csn in India.

I am a single 38 year old male with no kids who makes $35,000 providing tech support (a very unstable job as most of these jobs are outsourced to other countries. I should thank my fellow Americans who have demanded to speak to someone who is also an American and not troubleshooting from a damn script.) I work from 2 PM to 11 PM and I have Wednesdays and Thursdays off - which translates into NO SOCIAL LIFE! WHERE IS MY FUCKIN' HAPPINESS! FUCK THIS GUY! FUCK HIM TO HELL!

Okay, I'm done now - carry on with your day.

American tech workers seeking a spouse have had their prospects hurt under the JACKBOOT of the h-1b program

parents asking to see tax returns? what the shit?

and I thought my dating life was messed up...

I work with a lot of Indians in the pharma industry, and even 1st generation guys raised here have arranged marriages.

My one client did not, but he made sure his two brothers had a "proper" arranged marriage (his parents both died about the time that he was ready to marry, so he contacted a former classmate via the internet, and they hooked themselves up). But he explained that he "wouldn't want that" for his brothers.

I just glad my parents' culture didn't require them to find me a husband, given the dates they tried to fix me up with when I was young. Usually dumb as dirt, but good golfers.

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Interviewed 20 potential brides?

...is anyone still wondering about why the divorce rate is so high?

The nearly 50% rate in the US you are talking about?
As far as I know, divorce rate in India is way lower.

some people, and obviously many in India that are wealthy, are so LOST! poor rich men not finding brides, sigh.. how heartbreaking.

when there are plenty of US citizens available, either immediately or with retraining?

Public universities deliberately hold down enrollment in computer science programs, then bemoan the "fact" that there "aren't enough" U.S. citizens getting the degrees.

I could write a book of misconceptions about Indian culture just from this page.:eyes:

There are toilets in India in people's houses, restaurants, train stations. The toilets are different than ours in some ways, but I was able to find a restroom when I needed-and came back with some funny stories. They are building infra structure (sewers and pipelines) to place more in-they don't have many public toilets yet. But gee-our homeless have easy access to toilets...yeah right. Remember, it was not too long ago famines routinely killed many-it is not a third world country anymore-maybe a 2nd world country.

Parents and responsible family have been making arranged matches for generations. Their low divorce rate seems to indicate that this is a successful way to do it. My hubby and I have a 'love match'(he Indian-I American). We went through all the same negotiations as an arranged marriage but hubby and I did it ourselves and I still went to India after I was married to get the token approval. His best friend-an American had an arranged marriage to an Indian woman and they have been married for 35 years. We did arrange a match for his niece (they were wed last month). The guy is an Indo-American. We checked him out throughly and he with us. I did not go to India for the ceremonies but Hubby said he is a nice man. Our niece is very happy. Believe me, kids are generally not forced into something they don't want. They have a voice in this too. The family just narrows the number to a few good one. When I look back on all the bad dates I had and the time I wasted-that is a definite plus.

It is not for everyone, but it IS another way to peel a banana and it works pretty well;)

I think the person in the story may be a bit too picky (or his family). That is usually why they fail to find a bride-he just doesn't want to get married and is using that as an excuse.

On edit...One thing I didn't like was the caste system. I am too much of an American. Hubby is high ranking Brahmin but he has been here for a long while and does what needs to be done. Some folks won't lift a finger to do some thing that are 'beneath' their cast. It is that attitude that hamstrings their society.

I think people are being imprecise in their wording. I'm sure we all know that many in India do have indoor plumbing.

And many of upper caste poor (Brahmins) who live in the slums without toilets.

Get rid of the stereotypes in your mind.

There never were any absolutes in my mind, despite my sloppy language.

And there are many others who know of many more. It could very well be that there are millions of the so-called untouchables who have toilets.

By your admission above, your written language is sloppy. The same can be said of your ability to read. You have a bias in your mind, that facts have no effect on. As post #44 says, with people like you around, who needs freepers?

no point

on purpose. I watched a show about 10 years ago, an Indian mother gives birth to a boy & her 2 teen daughters were hugging each other SOBBING. & the b!tch mother was ICE COLD to her own daughters!!!!! Now they're talking about removing ALL RIGHTS from Indian women because of the shortage of living girls due to aborting them-how typically upside down of them. Indian girls should have MORE rights now that they're rare. Short-sighted idiots, just like the Right & the other rght here.

Many Indian states offer FREE EDUCATION for women up to the 12th grade. In the state of Gujarat, the govt. pays OB/GYNs to go to homes and deliver children for free, so the women don't die in childbirth. It is illegal to detect the gender of a child in the womb (though many flout this law).

Geez, post # 25 above says, the level of ignorance demonstrated on this thread is amazing, as is the stereotyping. With this on a liberal board, who needs freepers?

your hatred of other cultures with minimal and sensational-sound bite information is something we accuse freepers of doing. If we ask freepers to go back in the trees to give evolution a fighting chance, what could we say to you?

your sh1t onto me. You want links?
"According to a recent report by the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) up to 50 million girls and women are missing from India' s population as a result of systematic gender discrimination in India. In most countries in the world, there are approximately 105 female births for every 100 males."
"In India, there are less than 93 women for every 100 men in the population. The accepted reason for such a disparity is the practice of female infanticide in India, prompted by the existence of a dowry system which requires the family to pay out a great deal of money when a female child is married. For a poor family, the birth of a girl child can signal the beginning of financial ruin and extreme hardship.

However this anti-female bias is by no means limited to poor families. Much of the discrimination is to do with cultural beliefs and social norms. These norms themselves must be challenged if this practice is to stop."
from here http://www.indianchild.com/abortion_infanticide_foeticide_india.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2003/s992850.htm

"HAMISH ROBERTSON: There's some disturbing new evidence in India about a growing gender imbalance in the country that's home to more than a billion people. A report published jointly by the Indian government and the United Nations Population Fund shows an alarming drop in the number of baby girls.

Calculating the child sex ratio as the number of girls per 1,000 boys in the under-six age group, the report finds that this ratio has now fallen below the 900 mark for the first time. This means that each year an increasing number of girls are being killed before they're born.

The report calls for immediate steps to control the imbalance, warning that it could eventually become extremely difficult, even impossible, to correct."...

..."SIMI CHAKRABARTI: India, the second most populous country in the world. But it's the number of men who are growing. Indian female population rate is actually going backwards. Why? Because more and more female foetuses are being terminated before they are born. In most parts of India, 10 per cent more boys are born than girls.

Ena Singh, of the United Nations Population Fund or the UNFPA, says India is facing a crisis of prejudice against girl children.

ENA SINGH: I think what this report showed was how dramatic this decline has become in the last 10 years. That was certainly a surprise.

SIMI CHAKRABARTI: The report also reveals that the gender imbalance cuts across all religions and all sections of Indian society."...


http://pr3rna.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/mercy-killing-of-a-foetus/

..."Female foeticide is the cause of worry. But that is happening anyway. People and doctors involved in the gruesome act of female foeticide are doing it illegally and will continue doing so despite the law."...


..."When Punjab's first ultrasound clinic opened in 1979, there were 925 girls for every 1,000 boys younger than 7, according to Sabu George, a public health activist who has criticized feticide for more than 20 years. By 1991, it was 875, and by 2001, it had plummeted again, to 793, according to national census figures"...

http://tinyurl.com/WPIndia

.."By Neil Samson Katz
Religion News Service
Saturday, May 20, 2006; Page B09

NEW DELHI -- In a tight alleyway in East Delhi, Radhika Devi, a bashful mother of two girls, and Manjula Thomas, a health worker who cares for pregnant women, rush to an ultrasound clinic. Devi is five months pregnant and desperately wants to know the sex of her unborn child.

"It's better if it's a boy," Devi said, her hands shaking nervously. "If it's a girl, we will get it aborted"...

The links you posted (and the one source from boloji.com you quoted) hardly tell you the whole truth. Like another poster on this thread, you selectively quote from sources that do not tell you the whole truth, but only pander to your pre-conceived biases and prejudices.

For starters, improve your reading, and get to this article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_India

FYI, India had a woman as its Prime Minister way back in 1966 (compare that to the US where in 2008 a lot of people were asking if it was ready for a woman as head of Govt.). The current constitutional head of state in India (the President) is a woman. Women have been judges in the Supreme Court, police officers, etc., and have fought for women's rights in a big way and continue to do so (Google 'Kiran Bedi').

At the VERY LEAST, this should make you THINK about the statement you made a few posts ago, and I quote you: '... there is talk of taking away ALL RIGHTS for women in India...'. To anyone with half a brain, it should be obvious that a country with a woman PRESIDENT could hardly be thinking of doing something on those lines through the political system.

I'm not a Bigot, racist, white-power person. I'm just pointing out what I have actually read from the news directly from India. I question why this is still allowed to happen in such times. The articles state is still does happen, if you would read it, then maybe you would understand. I'm actually from a very mixed background. It doesn't make me racist to notice this and point this out to inform others. It's too bad the females are treated this way. Billboards in India are advertising not to abort females fetuses, the movie "Bend it like Beckham" was also trying to educate people that females are great. Have you seen the documentary "Born into Brothels?" Maybe you should open your eyes. This kind of treatment seems awful towards females don't you think? So why all the hatred towards me that is just pointing it out? That makes me "racist"? Don't think so. Not saying everyone that comes from India is like that-never said that. To be civilized is to educate oneself on what is happening in the world on many topics, this just happens to be a topic that is not a positive one, but one that should be lit on more to try to stop this nonsense in the 21st century. I think it's apalling that people out there who read this miscontrue everything when they don't even read it entirely and assume that I'm something I am not. Grow up.




& I responded to the personal response to me. Again-what are you projecting onto me & why? You may get lost in the minutiae, but I have most often seen the bigger picture. I heard/read that sentiment being discussed a few years back, Indian men in college & the few women. I am sorry that those here get all weirdly over emotional about something that barely even personally concerns them.

Yes, the Earth is round, but I am sorry, I am over-generalizing.

The response to you was well deserved, given this quote directly from you: "...Now they're talking about removing ALL RIGHTS from Indian women ...". Even the capitalization is yours.

The replies to your post presented you with FACTS (and reputable links to them) that clearly demonstrate the falsehood of something you stated categorically. The kind of mind you have is shown by your categorization of facts that are relevant to the argument as 'minutiae' -- a word that seems to indicate that they are not worth considering.

And how does this lead to the claim that you see the 'bigger picture', when it seems that you have given no consideration to these facts that contradict your pre-conceived biases?

You, and another poster on this thread, base your biases on what you have heard from some of your co-workers and some of your college friends. And consider that tiny snapshot of a nation of 1.1 billion to be the gospel truth.

Well, in the 1970s, in India, my friends and I met many Americans - mostly of the 'hippie' kind. They talked about how American parents were solely interested in their own pleasures, locked up the kids at home at night to go partying, could not wait to sleep with others, kicked the kids out when they were 18, locked up their aged parents in old folks homes where they died alone, etc. They had come away to find peace and get away from their traumatic childhood and youth. Many people heard similar stories, and in fact, this led to an Indian movie from 1971 called 'Hare Rama Hare Krishna'. True picture of American life?

Yes, you are over-generalizing, stereotyping, whatever you want to call it - big time.

THERE WERE NO LINKS IN THE RESPONSES!!!! If you feel calling me racist, bigoted, narrow-minded FACTS then you have a bigger problem-good 4 u!

Since you disagree with the United Nations stats......oh well.

I guess watching with total horror the documentary "Born Into Brothels" was merely my own personal hallucination.

Show me exactly where I overgeneralize-the droughts in India that are causing thousands of Indian farmers to commit suicide? The GM cotton being the CENTRAL cause of these suicides-am I racist for noticing this as well?

Perhaps the romantic monsoon season in another part of India renders my attention to the draught invalid, right?

Since you cannot understand the difference between what an ant on an average American driveway sees(minutiae) versus what a Human sees(big pic) on the same driveway implies your mental capacities are quite small.

Since Henry Ford built his first car BUT had forgotten to make sure it could go out through the door-he had to break open the shed his tiller-steered car was made in. Oh OH, THAT must mean NOTHING he did could be taken seriously, I mean he was ssssooooooo stupid NOT to think about how he'd get the car-thing out.
sp ed.

also say the same about Queen Elizabeth Tudor-what you are saying is that because the top tier of society can do *this* so can every lower class woman. You can say the same about Empress Elizabeth & Catharine the Great of Russia-did non-aristocracy enjoy the same freedoms? No.

& you should be savvy enough to know that Wiki is not a trusted source, right wingers put junk up there alot & there's always an editing war going on there.

I think you should read EVERY link I posted.

Pointing out a horrible travisty DOES NOT mean I applaud it or approve.

And the fact that the Wiki link I told you talked of ordinary women becoming pilots and Lt. Gens in the army meant nothing to you, right? The fact that a so-called Untouchable woman is now the head of the state govt. in the biggest state in the country means nothing, right? It is all in the class of Elizabeth I and Catherine the Great.

Freedom of any sort is enjoyed only by the women in the aristocracy in India? That idea is so LAUGHABLE to someone who was born there and lived there for 23 years that the only conclusion one can draw about the person who puts forth such claims on the basis of a few links is that the poster is prejudiced.

And yes, while Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, the article I posted does a balanced treatment of the subject, as should have been obvious to anyone with even the minutest capability of analytical thought. Obviously, your prejudices have hidden any analytical skills you may have had.

The response to your first post on the thread was certainly well deserved.

you continually try to paint me as racist against Indians from India yet I have not attacked them at all. I know quite a bit about India, & you posted NO ARTICLE it was just a link to Wiki.

I have been here alot longer than you have & you appear to be harassing me.

I guess "And the fact that the Wiki link I told you talked of ordinary women becoming pilots and Lt. Gens in the army meant nothing to you, right? The fact that a so-called Untouchable woman is now the head of the state govt. in the biggest state in the country means nothing, right?" somehow wipes out the THOUSANDS of Indian farmers who have commited suicide as a direct result of GM cotton massively failing?

I guess pointing out the pedophile priests-according to your way-means I am attacking whites. I suppose if I say the new Pope resembles the Emperor makes me a vindictive hate-filled person towards ALL Polish people?

Your way of thinking means now that Obama is President there is no bigotry against African Americans.

Again, just because there are a few stellar women who have been promoted-HOW does that have ANYTHING to do with fewer women available for Indian men to marry? My point of fewer girls being carried to term directly confronts the roots of the problem.

You never even READ MY LINKS, go vent on someone else.

Well? Where is my hatred of other cultures??? Minimal & sensationale soundbites my ass; see my links idit

An educated and intelligent person should know that one can probably find links on the web to justify almost any viewpoint. None of your links are credible sources. There are many anti-India links posted by the Pakistani propaganda machine which are laughable. You posted two of the same. The only person who would find links like that has hatred in his heart and is determined to present a biased view at any cost.

You have been exposed Sir, you need to learn a lot more.

Clearly, the idea of Mr. Marwaha marrying someone who isn't Indian is out of the question for him and his family.

And I bet the bride doesn't just have to be indian, but of the same religion and socio-economic status.

in the eye of the family-to marry an Indian and preferably the same cast (argh) but it is not discrimination as much as it is to avoid a potential source of conflict in the marriage.

Hubby married me and because I was Western-I am outside of the cast system. I think that is the funniest thing. I travel through Indian society with few of the constriction that most caste bound Indians endure. My young daughter had even fewer restrictions. If I made a faux pas, it was excused because I was a crazy Westerner.

Had my Hubby's Dad been alive, he would never have permitted out wedding. Hubby ask one of the priests he respected for a blessing and the guy had all kinds of ugly things to say about someone he had never met. The end result-Hubby and I married any way and we never went to see the priest(oh, and the priests sons married westerners).

But I do think there's bigotry in play in the "avoid potential source of conflict in the marriage" thing, just a more sophisticated expression of bigotry. Bigoted parents often claim to be looking out for the better interests of their children in trying to prevent them from dating / marrying someone "different."

Or any other time for that matter.

Don't hate on the individual who is just trying to make a better life for himself. Hate on the businesses who sent the jobs overseas and their whores in Congress (R AND D) who helped push through the legislation. I know it's easier to hate the Indian worker, but it's misplaced anger.

Or has Lou Dobbs joined DU all of a sudden?

Nearly all my co-workers are Indian.

I hear about these things not from Lou Dobbs, or the media, but from people who have come here to work.

And I read about them not here on DU, but elsewhere. If you do some looking, you'll find groups whose agenda is to help educate and train and improve the situation of the lower castes.

not to yours.

:rofl:

..."Women in India & Human Rights http://www.boloji.com/women/03.htm

What ever discussion goes on, the bottom line is there are no human rights for the women in India, absolutely none. She is lucky if she doesn’t get exploited, abused etc. Shear luck, because if at all that happens no one will help her not even her own family (May be they are involved too in this). So if any of you have a daughter just pray to god that she is lucky enough to live a human life. Even if a girl is raped in our society, no matter how bold she is, she never goes to legal process. The reason is:

1.

There is no term as legal process in India.
2.

She is so repressed for her future that she thinks keeping quite will not expose her to the society.
3.

She never ever will have courage to fight against the criminal herself.

This is so scary that thinking of living in this system will scare the hell out of the western country citizens. In other words any person can do anything to women without any hesitation and he can still enjoy his life.

May be there are too many article on women exploitation and we have all heard them so much that we hardly care any more. Think of the same happening to your own little children, we get agitated if someone beats our children, even if it is for a reason. And now apply that to the women who are weaker section of the society. They need protection form men around them. If not they are better of living in a jungle.

I think for women in India I have only one sentence. “The human being is not yet civilized and they are still living in the forest where there is a danger of wild animals attacking them any time”. May be forest is safer than India for women.

I am ashamed myself to be part of this country where we cannot even give a safe future to our women and children. Unlike other countries who spare their lives for giving great future to their generation.

– Ashish Garg
March 10, 2002"...

http://www.indianchild.com/womens_human_rights_india.htm

..."In India, with a highly utilitarian approach, poor parents do not aspire for a female child for two selfish reasons. Firstly, because of the fabulous dowry to be paid on the daughter's marriage, parents consider a daughter as a "financial liability". And, secondly, because the daughter has to leave the parents' house after marriage, she is no longer considered useful as an earning member of the family.
The instinctive urge, particularly of poor parents, is to prevent the birth of a female child. The most astounding statistics reveal that in a prominent hospital in Mumbai, the pre-sex determination tests revealed that during 1978-1982, nearly 8,000 pregnant women were expected to give birth to a female child. But to prevent this, 7,999 of them underwent abortions.

Article 21 of India's Constitution on "Protection of life and personal liberty" states: "No person shall be deprived of his life or personal liberty except according to procedure established by law." In the case of female children in the womb of expectant mothers, they are not only denied the right to live, but are robbed of their right even to be born, as revealed by the statistics mentioned earlier. This is the travesty of gender justice! "...

And learn that what you are saying here is not the WHOLE TRUTH, and the statement in your first post on this thread reeks of prejudice. Post #59 attempts to provide you with some facts that show the other side of the coin, should you choose to see them.

n/t

rather than just tell his parents he wants to marry a woman that is not indian he makes up something about how indian women wont marry him.

or the guy is just not very attractive.

i don't believe the stuff about recession and the economy. even if this was true couldn't they just come back to india ?

Some things never change in America.