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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:01 AM
Original message
Obama 2006-What He Said Then-Compared To What He Is Doing Now...
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 10:05 AM by kpete
Then

Even worse, here is what Obama said on the floor of the Senate in September, 2006 when he argued in favor of an amendment to the Military Commissions Act that would have restored habeas corpus rights to Guantanamo detainees. I defy anyone to read this and reconcile what he said then to what he is doing now:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/11/bagram/index.html

The bottom line is this: Current procedures under the CSRT are such that a perfectly innocent individual could be held and could not rebut the Government's case and has no way of proving his innocence.

I would like somebody in this Chamber, somebody in this Government, to tell me why this is necessary.
I do not want to hear that this is a new world and we face a new kind of enemy. I know that. . . . But as a parent, I can also imagine the terror I would feel if one of my family members were rounded up in the middle of the night and sent to Guantanamo without even getting one chance to ask why they were being held and being able to prove their innocence.

This is not just an entirely fictional scenario, by the way. We have already had reports by the CIA and various generals over the last few years saying that many of the detainees at Guantanamo should not have been there. As one U.S. commander of Guantanamo told the Wall Street Journal:

"Sometimes, we just didn't get the right folks."

We all know about the recent case of the Canadian man who was suspected of terrorist connections, detained in New York, sent to Syria--through a rendition agreement--tortured, only to find out later it was all a case of mistaken identity and poor information. . . .

This is an extraordinarily difficult war we are prosecuting against terrorists. There are going to be situations in which we cast too wide a net and capture the wrong person. . . .

But what is avoidable is refusing to ever allow our legal system to correct these mistakes. By giving suspects a chance--even one chance--to challenge the terms of their detention in court, to have a judge confirm that the Government has detained the right person for the right suspicions, we could solve this problem without harming our efforts in the war on terror one bit. . . .

Most of us have been willing to make some sacrifices because we know that, in the end, it helps to make us safer. But restricting somebody's right to challenge their imprisonment indefinitely is not going to make us safer. In fact, recent evidence shows it is probably making us less safe.

In Sunday's New York Times, it was reported that previous drafts of the recently released National Intelligence Estimate, a report of 16 different Government intelligence agencies, describe "actions by the United States Government that were determined to have stoked the jihad movement, like the indefinite detention of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay."

This is not just unhelpful in our fight against terror, it is unnecessary. We don't need to imprison innocent people to win this war. For people who are guilty, we have the procedures in place to lock them up. That is who we are as a people. We do things right, and we do things fair.

Two days ago, every Member of this body received a letter, signed by 35 U.S. diplomats, many of whom served under Republican Presidents. They urged us to reconsider eliminating the rights of habeas corpus from this bill, saying:

"To deny habeas corpus to our detainees can be seen as a prescription for how the captured members of our own military, diplomatic, and NGO personnel stationed abroad may be treated. ..... The Congress has every duty to insure their protection, and to avoid anything which will be taken as a justification, even by the most disturbed minds, that arbitrary arrest is the acceptable norm of the day in the relations between nations, and that judicial inquiry is an antique, trivial and dispensable luxury."

The world is watching what we do today in America. They will know what we do here today, and they will treat all of us accordingly in the future--our soldiers, our diplomats, our journalists, anybody who travels beyond these borders. I hope we remember this as we go forward. I sincerely hope we can protect what has been called the "great writ" -- a writ that has been in place in the Anglo-American legal system for over 700 years.

Mr. President, this should not be a difficult vote. I hope we pass this amendment because I think it is the only way to make sure this underlying bill preserves all the great traditions of our legal system and our way of life.

I yield the floor.

http://obamaspeeches.com/091-Floor-Statement-on-the-Habeas-Corpus-Amendment-Obama-Speech.htm


...................

NOW

Obama to Appeal Detainee Ruling

By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: April 10, 2009

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration said Friday that it would appeal a district court ruling that granted some military prisoners in Afghanistan the right to file lawsuits seeking their release. The decision signaled that the administration was not backing down in its effort to maintain the power to imprison terrorism suspects for extended periods without judicial oversight.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3826751&mesg_id=3826751
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Absolute power
Corrupts absolutely - is the only explanation that I can come up with.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. Took the words right off of my keyboard.
:-(
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montanacowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. He's a member of the President's Club
now; everything has changed
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Is Obama now throwing himself under the bus?
nt
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. He is a politicain...nuff said
They are known around the world for their integrity and honor.. He has been elected now, do you think he cares what anyone thinks now. In three years when he starts gearing up for the next election I am sure we will hear his concern for our beliefs..
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. You got it exactly right.
n/t
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. But he wasn't asked for the crises at hand and afoot...
(well, then they should have called it "Draft-Dodge 08" instead of "Election 08". :evilgrin: )
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. They hear us every four yrs. What more do we want?
:silly:
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. Montana, Bandit ... you two are RIGHT ON!
What's a few more years of illegal domestic wiretapping, foreign wars, crony appointments and kickbacks to Wall Street and Big Business?

All you gotta' do is wait 3 years, make the same promises you did last election cycle and the masses will eat it up.

We got duped, plain and simple. And people wonder why I supported and still support Dennis Kucinich.
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Mermaid7 Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
54. Tears for Those of Us Who Truly did Believe. N.M.
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. Impeach! Impeach now!
:scared:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Impeach? For what? For being just another lying politician? Calling for impeachment is just silly..
It won't ever matter who's president while all the corruption in our system continues to exist. The figurehead at the top is irrelevant -- no matter who the president is, it will always be someone who is owned by the MIC and the Owner Class, and it will always be they whom the president serves.

Real change will only come from the People rising up to demand it. It will never come from the top down.

sw
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. "The figurehead at the top is irrelevant"
So why is everyone focused on Obama?

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Because HE'S the figurehead at this moment, not someone else.
My post was an argument against calling for Obama's impeachment, which I think is utterly ridiculous. My point about the "figurehead" thing is that if Obama were removed, the next person would still be controlled by the same powers to which Obama is beholden.

If the People don't rise up and demand REAL change, we'll just continue to be stuck with the same corrupt system. The first step is realizing that Obama works for Owner Class and the MIC, not for us.

sw
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Mermaid7 Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
56. Yeah, kinda of llke Dennis. K. saying why focus on Bin Laden?
Obama said it, "make him do right".

We have got to. Instead of placing all our faith or beliefs in this boogie man and in this demi-god, we got to get on out there, and make ourselves heard.

Bring back the power!
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. +1
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. A compromised President


He probably made some deals, he lets go of some things and is able to proceed with others. I think James Baker is in charge of this. (just my speculation).
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Gawd I haven't thought about James Baker in a long time. Then
Last night he was mentioned on a Robert Caro interview concerning LBJ

And now here.

Didn't even know the guy was still around.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. James Baker and DickHEAD Cheney.
x(
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
74. he first went to the big money people
Edited on Sun Apr-12-09 02:59 AM by Two Americas
The first step in the Obama campaign, long before any of us knew he was running, was to meet with all of the big money players and get their support (and loot.) Some of that loot was funneled through the "Hope" PAC to help conservative candidates put down progressive challengers. That pleased the biog money people. They all report that they were very pleased with his promises and reassurances. He didn't want them to get alarmed when they heard him mouth populist sounding rhetoric in the course of the campaign, to fool the people in order to get elected.

I wish this were not true. I wish it would all go away and I never had to hear the sycophants apologizing for this and defending it. I am disgusted with the whole thing. Maybe if we all pretend that this is not true, and that everything is going the right direction, we can all just be happy and oblivious and we won't have to bother anyone anymore or argue about it. Maybe Coke is the real thing. Maybe for everything else there is Visa. Maybe Bill Gates really does care where we want to go today. Maybe we really can have it our way. Don't worry - be happy.



...
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. fraud... nt
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. I fell for the con artist's "constitutional scholar" schtick, and also the "community organizer" BS
even my 93-yo father greatly admired his so-called community organizer past and felt that that signaled he was compassionate and understanding of real-world injustice. That gave me, also, confidence (falsely, I see now) that he would be sympathetic to causes for the poor and downtrodden. HA! His ONLY "sympathy" is for the billionaire banker scammers. Everybody else can go to fucking hell, apparently, now that he's conned his way into the presidency.

I fell for his empty "promise" that habeas corpus would be restored stat. I guess he felt free to say whatever bullshit he wanted, knowing that the billionaires would provide for him handsomely no matter what, with the deals he could offer them.

I wonder how his "constitutional law" students feel about this? I wonder if he taught that the Constitution is just a piece of paper with a lot of quaint but meaningless idealistic notions that one could first promise to uphold and defend and then simply ignore after being elected to office.

Where are the O cheerleaders on this issue, anyway? Am I simply an "Obama hater"?
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. Yes.
You asked a question, and it has been answered.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. your "answer" means shit
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 08:13 PM by ima_sinnic
please explain why habeas corpus is not important, and why his "promise" to restore it was not a lie.

for simple-minded jackasses, such explanation is hard to produce. You COULD restore my faith in your god, but apparently you're, um, "at a loss for words" to do so, because there is no defense for using the Constitution for toilet paper. so sorry you missed the clue train. I guess you don't really care about holding people for 7 years and torturing them without charging them with any crime, then falsely promising those people would be treated justly--some hero you got there, sucker.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. You have anger issues. Sorry about that.
The Constitution was used as "toilet paper" by George W. Bush. I may disagree about President Obama's positions from time to time, but you have obviously hated him from the word Go. Lincoln is criticized for suspending habeas corpus, but there was that little thing called Civil War he had to deal with.

Enjoy your fuming hatred. If and when something happens to him, I will call you out on it, ima_sinnic. Along with your pals, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, et al.

Plus, this isn't over, is it?
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. so being lied to doesn't make you angry?
a "constitutional scholar" says on Day 1, I am restoring the rule of law. Three months later, he is still refusing to grant habeas corpus to detainees who have been held for 7 yrs without charge. He knows they have been unjustly tortured and broken, yet he doesn't give a shit. Only someone with no soul would not be angered by that.

so flit around mocking people for "anger issues." at least I have a soul.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #39
68. you must be joking
You're gonna "call" a poster on DU out if someone attacks the President? my god the level of political acuity on show here is breathtakingly barren.

Criticising someone's positions no matter how forcefully is not and never has been proof of "hatred" go back to the dictionary and come back when you can post less obvious drivel
:puke:
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #39
73. let's not drag that one out
There is no possible justification for suspending the Constitution now when compared to the middle of the Civil War.

"The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."

Might Lincoln have been faced with a case of Rebellion, do you think? Are we today?

By your logic, the Constitution could be suspended at any time for any reason.


...

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #39
77. Let me complete the left-wing triple threat by adding to what was said by the two posters above me:
The level of personal insecurity over a political figure is astonishing to me. People are making emotional defenses of a politician as though he was their own son or daughter. It only reinforces the reality that many people's basis for "supporting" the president rests on some really faulty premises having more to do with emotion than issues.

"Hate" - you don't get there by disagreeing with policy. You don't get there by being angry about what BAD POLICY does to the country.

I can be extremely upset about the direction chosen by this administration for financial "recovery" and by fuming at the ways the wealthy dominate our politics, politicians and political structure, and still keep a photo ablum of the first family because I think the are beautiful and I continue to be amazed at the history surrounding the first African American president.

I can be furious about the administrations silence on EFCA, and be thrilled to death about the domestic spending priorities of the president's budget.

I can feel betrayed by the administration's refusal to make a break with the previous adminsitrations constitutional-breaking power grabs and secrecy ploys and also cheer Obama's plans and direction on energy and a green economy.

Only YOU seem to see everything in polarizing black and whites.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #39
86. I Was An Obama Supporter From Day One
And I'm as disturbed by Obama's denial of Habeas Corpus as anyone.

As to Lincoln - that was very, very different. He temporarily suspended it until Congress was back in session, then he asked Congress to rule on it. It was not a blanket suspension forever, as Obama is claiming.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #39
91. How's that black and white thinking workin for ya?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
50. His Constit. Law students had no clue what his views were. nt
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Mermaid7 Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
59. No, we are just hoping
...that we are all still wrong, and for Easter he will pull a rabbit or a GoldenDoddle out of the bag, that we all were expecting but now thought we wouldn't be getting.

Wouldn't that be great, if he could still pull it off?
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. I wish there was a journalist out there who would ask him about this directly
I'd love to hear his answer.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. That won't happen.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. Why do you hate America? n/t
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. oh my! Dissing Dear Leader?
apparently some more than others get away with it.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. It's great isn't it?
All pissed off, all the time. Impeach him! No, that's just silly. Impeachment would get in the way of being all pissed off, all the time.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. DU authoritarians, untie!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
58. um I am confsued
I have no clue what you are referring ti.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. .
:evilgrin:
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you.
One more myth debunked.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. We see the value of his words
there is no value,no reason to trust a word he says about anything.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
27. Ohmigod. Bring back George W. Bush. That's the solution.
Post 1,000,000 finding fault with Obama on DU.

Please go listen to Hannity/Limbaugh/Crowley/Levin. You will find complete agreement there.
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. No real argument as to why his actions are acceptable I see. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. I have a bumper sticker on my car from 2002 that says "It's not America
without dissent". The same rules apply no matter which party is in charge.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
69. actually they'd be more on board
with the ongoing detention of people the US has no right whatsoever to hold. I think you've missed the point by a country mile.

For me it's not even about restoring detainees rights to challenge their incarceration at the hands of the US even if you allow them that right (my how big of you) it's still bullshit.

The US has never had the right to kidnap foreigners on foreign soil, torture and incarcerate them for "crimes" that were NOT crimes in the nations they were allegedly committed.

You are NOT the world's policeman.

"You're just like Hannity/Limbauh waaah" my what an intelligent response to the actual issue
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Chronotis2613 Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. I guess he forgot.
"The world is watching what we do today in America."

Mister President, they're still watching.

And they -- and we -- are losing hope.

*sigh*
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antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
32. "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk."
"Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk." Henry David Thoreau's vivid image, coined in the 19th century, is only one of a number of phrases and sayings contributed to the language by the legal profession.

Many of them suggest that engagement with the law can be perilous. The Scythian prince Anarchasis, in the 6th century BC, thought that "Written laws are like spider's webs," as they catch the vulnerable but can be torn to shreds by the rich and powerful. "The devil," says a 16th-century proverb, "makes his Christmas pies of lawyers' tongues and clerks' fingers." In the 18th century, Edmund Burke remarked that "Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny."

http://www.askoxford.com/worldofwords/quotations/quotefrom/trout/


We have all these Obama-labeled glasses of milk with trout in them all----we know what it means, but the question is: what do we do now?



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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
33. The obvious and often called for DU remedy for all problems: Impeachment.
If it was good enough for Bush it should be good enough for Obama.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
34. Well, all I can say is that my republican family members ought to
find President Obama more acceptable every day. Right now I feel cheated and embarrassed that I pushed him as a candidate to everyone I know.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
35. Habeas Corpus is a mere bagatelle. He's "keeping his powder dry" for something important.
Like withdrawing the troops from Iraq
and ending the war in Afghanistan
and restoring transparency in government
and getting rid of the lobbyists
and cutting the "defense" budget

and...Oh, wait

Well, he has a lot of things to do...give him a chance...trust him...he's got a plan...
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #35
72. Shouldn't you have used the 'sarcasm' icon...?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #35
89. I thought it unnecessary.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
38. This was foreseen, this was warned against here on DU. IMPEACHMENT WAS OFF THE TABLE.
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 08:24 PM by omega minimo
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. no one was listening then
and half of them are not listening now
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. i hear ya
:hi:
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. what does "impeachment" have to do with anything? nobody is saying anything about that
we were told "the rule of law" was back on the table. That was a lie.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. not impeaching Bushco and gambling that a Dem president would undo the crimes led to this.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. oh, I getcha--yes, we've certainly had the will to impeach, but not the power
the whole things needs to fall apart, sad to say. It is just too corrupt.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #48
65. Excellent point --
And that effects one hell of a lot of things that aren't getting done . . .

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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. Yes. there were many reasons to impeach. Not the least of them was a warning to future presidents,
that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Future presidents (point well taken), Bushco, #44 & an American public with little civic/s awareness
The argument on DU I keep thinking of is the accusation that impeachment was "only on principle" from people who didn't have a clue about the principle.

And now we have this.
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cbc5g Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
40. It's absolutely hypocritical but we cannot know what information he received
that led him to this.
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Mermaid7 Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
62. That I suppose, is all of our hopes,
that there is something that we just don't or can't know for this moment, but will later redeem, restore our faith in Obama.
I wish it so...but as a country, after the Bush years, we can no longer proceed on 'blind' faith.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #40
79. The same is true of Bush and Cheney
we don't know what information they had either. That led them to this. Geez.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
49. kpete, I hope you sent this to Obama. He should be embarrassed.
I remember his inaugural address; it gave me such hope, now all dissipated.
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Mermaid7 Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. K.Pete, Can I send something to Pres. Obama too?
I'm really upset too!

As a Canadian living in U.S.A. who literally send hundreds of dollars to his campaign,honestly, informed and twisted everyone's arm that I knew, and climbed staircase to staircase in more than one Republican area in support of Senator Obama, I want to know what the hell is now going on???

Hello?


Jeese Louise!

I saw you in Tampa in May, marched around for hour to get in, and then again in Dunedin, FL in the fall.

I loved what you represented to me, so get real.

Remember 'Mainstreet'?


Was 'Mainstreet a conduced sign for paying for Wallstreet, when you signed us all on?

Was your mother's ovarian cancer story an inducement for the Health Insurance Industry, when my husband who worked his whole life is declined at age 60 for health pre-existing conditions?


You were 'my', 'our' President of the United States.

I saw your statue up there, in Utah. I saw you as the next, JFK.

N.M.

K.Pete pls forward this too


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
53. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
55. K & R
Never give up, ever.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
57. K&R....n/t
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
61. So why is habeas corpus so important? I trust the CIA, FBI, etc., to do the right thing

NOT!
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
63. K/R
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
64. Had we had the list of Obama appointees ... DLC and CEO's . . .
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
66. Deleted message
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Jeep789 Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #66
71. Ha, McCain would have been so much better
:sarcasm:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #71
76. Ha, Hillary would have been better.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #76
84. Actually I believe she would have been very much the same.
DK might, might have been the only politician that would have been "different" and that is why he had to be marginalized by the corporate owned MSM.

There is even a question IMHO as to weather even DK would have had the strength to stand up to the real powers in America. I am convinced there is only one person that can cure what ails us and that is YOU, all and any of you. But there's a real catch 22, if you want freedom, if you want equality, if you want JUSTICE you have to be willing to die for it and therefore YOU don't get to enjoy it. You can only secure the natural rights of man for someone else because the effort will cost you EVERYTHING.

at least that's my guess.........
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #84
92. hillary would have been the same but worse and quicker
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
67. That is a complete betrayal. Our country is united by our belief in common ideals.
It's one thing to break a campaign promise once in a while. It is quite another to abandon your principles within weeks of taking the office of the president.

President Obama has a lot of explaining to do.

First there is his give-away to the banks. Second there are the specious arguments offered in favor of dismissal of the wiretapping lawsuits and now this arrogant refusal to recognize basic human rights of prisoners at Guantanamo. Who is in charge in the Obama administration? The Obama who was elected by Americans who wanted a change for the better or the power elite who want more and more and more of the same old Bush corruption.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
70. K&R
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
75. Deleted message
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
78. Obama Is Shaping Up To Be A Better Republican Than Clinton
eom
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HOLOS Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
80. K&R!!!!!!!!!!!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
81. That is why impeachment was imperative. Now, we have a system
where law is determined by the executive branch.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
82. Shhh! Too much reality does very strange things to some people who
inhabit this place. They don't like to hear what Obama said before he was elected and then to hear and see what he's done since.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. Reality is good.
I can't wait to see reality this time next year.

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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. I sometimes find myself giving excuses for people who are too stupid to read.........
But for Obama, what the hell?


This is going from bad to worse faster than i anticipated, good thing i am crazy enough to realize i live in crazy world :crazy:
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Swede Atlanta Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
87. Nothing new here....
I am as distressed as the rest of the DU community about Obama's defense of the warrantless wiretapping scheme and arguments to rationalize government immunity as well as his decision to defend the Bush practice of detention of individuals outside the sphere of judicial oversight.

Unfortunately I think this has to do with the tensions between the three branches of government. The three branches of government are constantly at odds with one another and often jealous of the powers of the other. This is probably strongest between Congress and the President.

Once the scope of executive power is expanded it is like the proverbial genie in a bottle. Once it is out it is near to impossible to put it back in. Power corrupts absolutely. Obama is a man and he is as power hungry as the rest of them. Why would he want to give up any power? He might not always use that power but he would want to maintain it.

Another matter that I had not thought of is that many of these lawsuits are now not against Bush and company but against the current incumbent of the White House. In those cases I'm not exactly sure what Obama should do. Does he roll over and accept a judgment against him even though he had nothing to do with the facts that led to the case to begin with or does he fight it?

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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
88. That's the beauty of "pragmatism".
Words can mean whatever you want them to.

K & R.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
90. "YES WE CAN"...
Do better next time?

Listen between the lines?
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