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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:44 PM
Original message
The question remains: WHY??
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 09:54 PM by Sparkly
That's the question that's been with us for years. Why invade Iraq?

The PNAC was intent on this in the 1990s. It always seemed there was something left from Poppy's war that they had to clean up. The 9/11 attacks gave them a new excuse for what they'd already decided to do. But why?

I've heard and considered all the possibilities -- taking out Saddam, building the pipeline, stealing their oil, etc. -- and none of them seem like the real answer.

Helen Thomas asked why they were talking about Iraq when Ari Fleischer first mentioned the word (and was told Ari was just "freelancing" -- "Iraq who?"). I wrote to her and she wrote back, saying they need to be straight about their intentions and that "these people need an enemy."

As BushCo went around "making the case," Stinky and I scratched our heads. Why? Why really?

As more and more info comes out, confirming what we knew all along, the question is only magnified -- they went to such incredible lengths to justify the invasion. WHY?

I even suspect they tried to plant evidence of WMD but were thwarted (perhaps by Valerie Plame's team, as was suggested years ago). They more than lied -- they ruptured alliances, they broke international law, they falsified evidence, they tortured people to get false information, and they knowingly instigated the deaths of thousands of our troops and God knows how many Iraqi fighters and innocent civilians, including children.

All this, for what? For what, REALLY?

WHY??

I'm honestly not sure we'll ever know.

Edited to add: I didn't realize Stinky got to this one first. :( http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5515460#5516065
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Two reasons ..........
The first was to kill Saddam Hussein. He knew far too much about the BFEE, the Carlyle Group, and various other rightwing operations that had subsidized him for so long. If Saddam ever started talking, too many people were going to be in BIG trouble.

The second was simple: oil. The oil people finally had their guys in the White House: Chimpy Fucknuts and Dickface Cheney. They would do the bidding, take over the oil fields, get their people in there, and all would be gravy for the American oil companies for centuries to come.

Yeah, it's that simple, my friend. Occam's Razor, and it was under our noses all the time.....................
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. We thought of those, but...
The "Saddam knows something" theory was my first one. I thought they'd go into Baghdad and take him out immediately -- I was surprised they were giving him as much time as they did, in the run-up, to make noise. But as it happened, he was loose for months, and nothing. He had a microphone at his trial, and nothing.

Oil -- too easy. There had to be other ways to accomplish that.

I honestly think there's something else.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. He wasn't on the run ............
Americans had him under their control almost from the start. He was planted in that spider hole just for publicity's sake. Didn't you notice that there were camera crews there when he was discovered? Just like there were camera crews there when Jessica Lynch was rushed to the hospital after her "heroic" (and imaginary) stand against the Iraqi soldiers?

That's the tip-off. The camera crews. But, they had Saddam Hussein the whole time, and were just waiting for the right time to have "hunted him down." Nailing him quickly would have blunted the effort and brought things to a too-soon "end."

The simplest explanation is always the true one. Occam's Razor. Yes, it's that simple.
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Follow the money.
Even today.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oil, Israel and Politics
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 09:51 PM by Postman
Cheney himself said - Iraq sits on the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world - They saw dollar signs as far as the eye can see by taking their oil and an opportunity to turn Iraq into a Republican Free Market Utopia...

The US got kicked out of Saudi Arabia. They needed another place to park the big sticks to "protect" Israel...

George Bush himself said - "My father had all this political capital when he kicked Iraq out of Kuwait and he blew it. If I get a chance to invade, I'm not going to blow it. I'm going to get all the things done that I want to get done"...
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Oh yeah, Israel. Of course
Israel was behind 9/11, the Oklahoma bombing, the Bay of Pigs, the Kennedy Assassination (both of them). Why not? This is such a cowardly suggestion that always gets rave reviews on DU.

And who needs a brain? To actually think? It is so easy to just say "Israel" and get a standing ovation.

You may want to read this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x442383

though I doubt you'd grasp the details and the scope of the essay.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. My favorirte explanation..

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/SRR/Volume11/centralasia.html
Central Asia Snapshots

Laxman Bahroo and J. L. Khayyam Coelho

Central Asia, the perennial penumbra of empires, has once again gained importance and captured world headlines. The land of war-like Turcomans, ancient cultural centers, the lucrative Silk Road, and the Great Game briefly fell into obscurity as world wars and ideological struggle preoccupied global consciousness. In the post Cold War era, and especially the post 9-11 era, Central Asia has reacquired its lost pre-eminence. Strategically bordering the major regions of Asia, the Russian Federation, China, Indian Subcontinent and the Middle East, it has become the destination of choice for regional and global powers seeking to expand their influence.


The pendulum of strategic thought has oscillated between the contrasting theories of Sir Halford Mackinder and Nicholas Spykman. Mackinder believed that the area constituting Central Asia formed the pivotal "heartland" and its importance summarized in the famous aphorism: He who controls the Heartland controls the World Island; He who controls the World Island, controls the world. Spykman disagreed because Mackinder's formulation discounted the influence of sea power. Instead, Spykman proposed the "Rimland" concept, regions that have access to the sea as well as the interior land mass. It comprised of Western Europe, the Middle East, Indian Subcontinent, and Southeast Asia. This concept too has a matching aphorism he who controls the Rimland rules Eurasia; who rules Eurasia controls the destinies of the world.


After nearly a century, the heartland has regained its prominence, as the newly independent republics find their footing on the way to nationhood. Countries from the surrounding regions have established military, diplomatic and an economic presence in the region motivated in part by exploration, academic study, competition, religion, and greed. Dubbed the New Great Game, the world has become interested in the region’s natural resources, its people and its conflicts. Energy conduits crisscrossing the region are the new and more enduring Silk Road, the great ancient commercial artery binding the Ganges and the Yellow River to the Near East and the Mediterranean. Central Asia has the potential to become the most significant trade artery of tomorrow, linking together China, India, Middle East, Russia and the fringe of Europe. Therefore the New Great Game is merely a reshuffling of priorities, protagonists, and level of intensity cloaked in a new garb; the underlying motivations have been the same since time immemorial.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I'm sure this was part of their thinking, as well,
but, since they established themselves as history-deprived assholes who didn't realize they were destroying the only secular buffer between Iran and the rest of the Middle East, I'm not sure that the "control the heartland" theory ever penetrated their thick, uninformed skulls.

Sort of how McNamara was so horrified to discover, during the Vietnam peace talks, that Vietnam and China had been mortal enemies for centuries. So much for that domino theory and the idea that China was going to prop up the Viet Cong.

Our ignorance is sometimes appalling, but there it is .......................
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. When I look at our presence...
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 10:08 PM by stillcool
where our bases are through-out the region, and the world, I come to the conclusion that this is the most palatable explanation I can swallow.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Agreed ..........
The visuals make it even more compelling.

Now, we do have to wonder exactly how much the military was in on this debacle from the beginning. I suspect there are enough pissed-off generals out there, some of whom have already been pretty vocal, who are going to come forward with even more to tell us.

What a waste. What an utterly unnecessary and stupid waste. If I were the mother of a kid who'd been killed in Iraq or Afghanistan, I'd go to my own grave with the horrific knowledge that my child died for no good reason at all. I hope there are no parents who have to live with that, but the smart, informed ones know, and I feel so sorry for them................................
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I'm not sure it was a waste..
I read an article a while back that stated the United States was close to sewing up the region. Of course there's been a zillion others that proclaim our imminent demise. I can't really imagine what a huge juggernaut our Military/Defense/Intelligence Apparatus is. It seems to me that we are a pimple on the ass of the Pentagon.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/American_Empire/American_Empire_page.html
American Empire page
"Europeans rationalized their empires as civilizing missions. Today the utopian rhetoric of American exceptionalism masks the primary intent of the United States to create, not actual colonies, but a global market subservient to transnational capital."
David Moberg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/American_Empire/American_Empire_page.html
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. I believe the families are heavily invested in weapons
and oil. who benefited? follow that money trail. Cargill, Halliburtun,etc
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. War profiteering. Looting the treasury, opium in Afghanistan, oil, oil, and more oil.
What other reasons are needed? Why do rich people more and more money?
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. That's it exactly.
At the end of the day it's just about stealing. Stealing on a scale never before seen.
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. OIL and keeping it in the ground
The 1928 Group Agreement (better known as the “Red Line” Agreement) was a deal struck between several American, British, and French oil companies concerning the oil resources within territories that formerly comprised the Ottoman Empire within the Middle East. The origins of the Red Line Agreement can be traced back to the initial formation of the Turkish Petroleum Company (TPC) in 1912. U.S. Dept. of State Article
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/id/88104.htm

It began with a character known as “Mr. 5%”- Calouste Gulbenkian - who, in 1925, slicked King Faisal, neophyte ruler of the country recently created by Churchill, into giving Gulbenkian’s “Iraq Petroleum Company” (IPC) exclusive rights to all of Iraq’s oil. Gulbenkian flipped 95% of his concession to a combine of western oil giants: Anglo-Persian, Royal Dutch Shell, CFP of France, and the Standard Oil trust companies (now ExxonMobil and its “sisters.”) The remaining slice Calouste kept for himself - hence, “Mr. 5%.”

The oil bigs had bought Iraq’s concession to seal it up and keep it off the market.

When the British Foreign Office fretted that locking up oil would stoke local nationalist anger, BP-IPC agreed privately to pretend to drill lots of wells, but make them absurdly shallow and place them where, wrote a company manager, “there was no danger of striking oil.” This systematic suppression of Iraq’s production, begun in 1927, has never ceased.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29749581@N00/168207552
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. Same reason it always was
OIL and Saddams move to take the trade of Iraqi oil off the dollar standard. We did it to control the energy pure and simple.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Except Iraqi oil production was lagging at the time and Iraqi
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 10:15 PM by Fire1
oil companies were firmly in control of Iraq oil.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Start a war, profit from it.
He's was itchy to out-do his Dad and get Saddam.

But really, any war would've lined their families' pockets and trust funds.

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think they wanted a "clean slate" - a country where they could try their "theories"
You know, a 100% capitalist "utopian" society.

Of course, all that untapped oil and juicy defence contracts were just icing on the cake.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Look at the budget for the Defense Department -
At the moment, it's the highest ever...





Those contractors have to make their money somehow:

Defense contractor

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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. Peak Oil, the end of the "Old World" ways of remaining dominant in the world.
And the need to fine new ways.

Had things gone their way, we'd be witnessing a new era of American Imperialism.

I think they thought we'd gain a dominant position in the Middle East and with that and the petroleum assets there, we could continue our wasteful unsustainable ways and be more able dominate the rest of the globe.

Their sick vision failed, then our economy, and now here we are.
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islandgirl808 Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. Greed and power
and throw in a daddy complex too
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. to do what even daddy didn't do....get saddam...
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. That's why Chimpy Fucknuts was anointed........
He and his his Oedipal problems were the perfect sockpuppet for the neocons and the oil men, two groups that should be locked up en masse in stockades from which they should never be released.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. They each had their own reasons.
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 10:09 PM by Stephanie
Bush? To pay back his benefactors and to one-up his Dad. The pipeline would have saved Enron. Taking out Saddam would have shown the old man what a big boy he was.

Cheney? To enhance his Halliburton holdings and act upon his heart-disease-induced paranoia and misanthropy.

The Idealogues? World domination, American hegemony, was a dream they'd had since Kissinger first proposed it.



http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2003/03/thirty-year-itch

The Thirty-Year Itch

Three decades ago, in the throes of the energy crisis, Washington's hawks conceived of a strategy for US control of the Persian Gulf's oil. Now, with the same strategists firmly in control of the White House, the Bush administration is playing out their script for global dominance.

—By Robert Dreyfuss
March/April 2003 Issue

If you were to spin the globe and look for real estate critical to building an American empire, your first stop would have to be the Persian Gulf. The desert sands of this region hold two of every three barrels of oil in the world -- Iraq's reserves alone are equal, by some estimates, to those of Russia, the United States, China, and Mexico combined. For the past 30 years, the Gulf has been in the crosshairs of an influential group of Washington foreign-policy strategists, who believe that in order to ensure its global dominance, the United States must seize control of the region and its oil. Born during the energy crisis of the 1970s and refined since then by a generation of policymakers, this approach is finding its boldest expression yet in the Bush administration -- which, with its plan to invade Iraq and install a regime beholden to Washington, has moved closer than any of its predecessors to transforming the Gulf into an American protectorate.

In the geopolitical vision driving current U.S. policy toward Iraq, the key to national security is global hegemony -- dominance over any and all potential rivals. To that end, the United States must not only be able to project its military forces anywhere, at any time. It must also control key resources, chief among them oil -- and especially Gulf oil. To the hawks who now set the tone at the White House and the Pentagon, the region is crucial not simply for its share of the U.S. oil supply (other sources have become more important over the years), but because it would allow the United States to maintain a lock on the world's energy lifeline and potentially deny access to its global competitors. The administration "believes you have to control resources in order to have access to them," says Chas Freeman, who served as U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia under the first President Bush. "They are taken with the idea that the end of the Cold War left the United States able to impose its will globally -- and that those who have the ability to shape events with power have the duty to do so. It's ideology."

Iraq, in this view, is a strategic prize of unparalleled importance. Unlike the oil beneath Alaska's frozen tundra, locked away in the steppes of central Asia, or buried under stormy seas, Iraq's crude is readily accessible and, at less than $1.50 a barrel, some of the cheapest in the world to produce. Already, over the past several months, Western companies have been meeting with Iraqi exiles to try to stake a claim to that bonanza.

But while the companies hope to cash in on an American-controlled Iraq, the push to remove Saddam Hussein hasn't been driven by oil executives, many of whom are worried about the consequences of war. Nor are Vice President Cheney and President Bush, both former oilmen, looking at the Gulf simply for the profits that can be earned there. The administration is thinking bigger, much bigger, than that.

"Controlling Iraq is about oil as power, rather than oil as fuel," says Michael Klare, professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and author of Resource Wars. "Control over the Persian Gulf translates into control over Europe, Japan, and China. It's having our hand on the spigot."

Ever since the oil shocks of the 1970s, the United States has steadily been accumulating military muscle in the Gulf by building bases, selling weaponry, and forging military partnerships. Now, it is poised to consolidate its might in a place that will be a fulcrum of the world's balance of power for decades to come. At a stroke, by taking control of Iraq, the Bush administration can solidify a long-running strategic design. "It's the Kissinger plan," says James Akins, a former U.S. diplomat. "I thought it had been killed, but it's back."

Akins learned a hard lesson about the politics of oil when he served as a U.S. envoy in Kuwait and Iraq, and ultimately as ambassador to Saudi Arabia during the oil crisis of 1973 and '74. At his home in Washington, D.C., shelves filled with Middle Eastern pottery and other memorabilia cover the walls, souvenirs of his years in the Foreign Service. Nearly three decades later, he still gets worked up while recalling his first encounter with the idea that the United States should be prepared to occupy Arab oil-producing countries.

In 1975, while Akins was ambassador in Saudi Arabia, an article headlined "Seizing Arab Oil" appeared in Harper's. The author, who used the pseudonym Miles Ignotus, was identified as "a Washington-based professor and defense consultant with intimate links to high-level U.S. policymakers." The article outlined, as Akins puts it, "how we could solve all our economic and political problems by taking over the Arab oil fields (and) bringing in Texans and Oklahomans to operate them." Simultaneously, a rash of similar stories appeared in other magazines and newspapers. "I knew that it had to have been the result of a deep background briefing," Akins says. "You don't have eight people coming up with the same screwy idea at the same time, independently.

"Then I made a fatal mistake," Akins continues. "I said on television that anyone who would propose that is either a madman, a criminal, or an agent of the Soviet Union." Soon afterward, he says, he learned that the background briefing had been conducted by his boss, then-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. Akins was fired later that year.


Kissinger has never acknowledged having planted the seeds for the article. But in an interview with Business Week that same year, he delivered a thinly veiled threat to the Saudis, musing about bringing oil prices down through "massive political warfare against countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran to make them risk their political stability and maybe their security if they did not cooperate."

In the 1970s, America's military presence in the Gulf was virtually nil, so the idea of seizing control of its oil was a pipe dream. Still, starting with the Miles Ignotus article, and a parallel one by conservative strategist and Johns Hopkins University professor Robert W. Tucker in Commentary, the idea began to gain favor among a feisty group of hardline, pro-Israeli thinkers, especially the hawkish circle aligned with Democratic senators Henry Jackson of Washington and Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York.

Eventually, this amalgam of strategists came to be known as "neoconservatives," and they played important roles in President Reagan's Defense Department and at think tanks and academic policy centers in the 1980s. Led by Richard Perle, chairman of the Pentagon's influential Defense Policy Board, and Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, they now occupy several dozen key posts in the White House, the Pentagon, and the State Department. At the top, they are closest to Vice President Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who have been closely aligned since both men served in the White House under President Ford in the mid-1970s. They also clustered around Cheney when he served as secretary of defense during the Gulf War in 1991.

Throughout those years, and especially after the Gulf War, U.S. forces have steadily encroached on the Gulf and the surrounding region, from the Horn of Africa to Central Asia. In preparing for an invasion and occupation of Iraq, the administration has been building on the steps taken by military and policy planners over the past quarter century.

==more at link==



And the bottom line? None of these guys were very bright. They were a bunch of dim bulbs with all the power in their hands, too dumb to know the right thing to do with it.





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Coffee and Cake Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. Theology combined with incompetency
I think George Bush's personal relationship with God had to do something with it. Bush was sincerely concerned about the battle between good and evil and after 9/11 he felt that he had to do something.

Denial of fact is pervasive in Evangelical Christianity, so it was a fairly easy decision to invade a country that didn't attack us along with inconclusive evidence of WMDs.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Remember his "Saddam tried to kill my dad" rationale.
That one was another reason to lie indefinitely about WMDs and links between Iraq and Al CIAda (both fantasies).
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. Pretty much unlimited POWER and GREED.
Sociopaths do that, but even more at that level (where they consider themselves to be above all laws).
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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. There's a scene in the movie "W" with Richard Dreyfus as Cheney.
The scene where Cheney makes the case for invasion and occupation rang true for me.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
30. Obnoxious Bullies bent on arrogantly going about doing what they damn well please
Remember them Pubs were pushing the meme "THE WAR PRESIDENT?". That would be a clue...among others...

Bush is a Bully...these types wish themselves to look like HEROs.....in my mind....it was a 2 fer....get the enemy thing in order to appear strong and decisive....and with many photo ops...go for the hero thing

They had not thought of being found out and now....he is a Zero.....they never thought of being criminals...never entered their small minds.....

The desire to reach Hero status is one of the reasons I suspect
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