Glenn Beck responsible for deaths of two cops in Okaloosa County

April 26, 2009 - 4:24 PM
Andrew Gant
Daily News

Shooting deaths: 'None of it makes sense'

<snip>

The events that led to the shooting deaths of two Okaloosa County sheriff's deputies Saturday began in a small top-floor apartment in Fort Walton Beach - with an argument over a tube of Clearasil.

On Sunday, lawmen still were investigating why Joshua Cartwright, a 28-year-old U.S. Army Reserve soldier with a history of violence, killed Okaloosa County sheriff's deputies Burt Lopez and Warren "Skip" York at a gun range in Crestview.

<snip>

An offense report filed against Cartwright the day he died outlines an angry husband who threatened his wife, kept guns and knives on hand, was "severely disturbed" that Barack Obama had been elected president, and believed the U.S. government was conspiring against him.

<snip>

Spooner described the attack as aggressive and well-planned.

More:
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/cartwright_16963___article.html/elizabeth_deputies.html

:shrug:

Sad story.

nt

as stated in the report Napolitano's department released.

"The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks."

But I don't see any involvement.

That part of Florida is very redneck and extremely Republican - lots of active and retired military and Christian Fundamentalist types over there. It's not at all surprising to have wife beaters and gun lovers in those counties.

All the Black Marxist Communist Fascist Socialist nonsense, the crying, the hand-wringing, the melodramatics that take place within the Fox studios every day is causing people who do nothing but listen to RW radio and tv to go into panic mode and freak out.

Even if the overall message is absolutely whacked out.

The Florida Panhandle media is almost exclusively RW propaganda. When we drive to Pensacola once we're out of range of the Tallahassee NPR station, we put on CDs since even the music channels suck.

I am no fan of Beck but this is a stretch. Now, if the article said that the killer was obsesses with Beck or somehow referenced him, sure, but this is hard to prove a connection.

When we were severely disturbed" that Bush was *elected* president, we didn't go around shooting people.



These people have got to calm down. At some point, we need public voices telling the likes of Beck and company to grow up and stop with the 24/7/365 propaganda machine that is pushing people over the edge.

I fear for this country. With the likes of Beck and his pals, times are getting more and more volatile.

Look, I hate the man as much as anybody around here, but trying to pin these murders on him is plain foolish, especially when the murderer was showing signs of being out of control last year.

There's no mention of Beck or his show, and to imply that it was Beck who caused this guy to go off is simply making yourself, and by extension all liberal look stupid and foolish.

If anybody is to "blame" in this, it's the legal process itself. As soon as he got tagged for domestic battery he should have had all his guns seized, with regular inspections to insure that he didn't get anymore.

that isn't the sum total of where responsibility lies. The FOX network has chosen to give a platform to a man that is deliberately twisting and adding fuel to the fears and anger of disturbed people (many of them owners of weapons) for FOX's profits.

That is unconscionable in a civil society. People like Beck are nothing but whack-jobs shouting at street corners without the pulpit of a media outlet.


Cartwright's 21-year-old wife, Elizabeth, told deputies her husband was not attending anger management counseling - something the court ordered after Cartwright was charged with domestic battery against Elizabeth in late 2008.

Is Beck calling for people to rise up and start killing others? No. Is he calling for revolution in this country, or other acts of treason? No. Is he playing to his audience, certainly, that's what all good pundits do, on the left and the right.

Blaming shootings on Fox news or on Beck is simply abrogating the responsibilities of the individual. Sure, you can say that Beck and Fox whip up the masses, but it is the responsibility of the individual, and only the individual, to act on those emotions. If you can't control yourself, that's your problem, not Beck's. Can you imagine the legal defense, not guilty due to Glenn Beck, please, it would get laughed out of the courtroom.

Not to mention that there is the conundrum about deciding who gets a platform and who doesn't. After all, over here on the left, we have our own "whack jobs shouting at street corners", what about them? Would they get banned? Where does this slippery slope end?

Sorry that you don't like living in a country with freedom of speech, but most of us do, and we don't want that right to be curtailed in any sort of manner. If you don't like what Beck is saying, then counter it with ideas of your own. But just don't go around banning people because you think that they're riling up the masses, otherwise pretty soon none of us will be able to speak in the public square.

Your assumptions and strawman arguments flowing from them show a kneejerk reactionary mentality.

I didn't blame Beck, I blame those how give his obviously lunatic ravings the credibility of a mass media audience. The power of mass media is a problem that has to be dealt with in the context of the First Amendment, but that doesn't mean there are no avenues to be pursued. They have a social responsibility to exercise judgment about the ultimate consequences of their programming, and the obviously incendiary and paranoid nature of Beck's show is a breach of the public trust. The proverbial boundary to free speech is recognized as the not having the freedom to falsely yell fire in a crowded theater. I think this situation is a mass media variation of that and as it is a known phenomena dating from the Third Reich it is is deserving of intense analysis and public discussion and possible legislative action. Demanding a certain level accountability from mass media for adherence to objective reality isn't any more an unacceptable limitation on freedom of speech than is the limitation of yelling fire in the theater.

If you are honestly comparing what Beck is saying on his show with Nazi propaganda, that shows me two things: First, you're hyperventilating and hysterical, overreacting in a manner that is entirely over the top and inappropriate to what Beck actually says. Second, you obviously have never listened to Nazi propaganda, especially in the original German. What Hitler, Himmler, et. al. had to say was much, much worse than anything Beck dreams of stating.

Furthermore, we have managed to survive pundits and political nutcases that have ranged from Father Coughlin (another one who makes Beck look like a small fry) to Birchers along with dozens of others who spit bile and hatred and guess what, we've survived just fine, without having to resort to curtailing people's freedom of speech.

This is not a mass media version of yelling fire in a crowded theater. I have yet to hear any right wing pundit calling for the death of the president or for the overthrow of the government. We don't need to "demand a certain level of accountability" or an "adherence to objective reality" because by doing so you will be encroaching on everybody's freedom of speech. Hell, I've seen just as much deviation from objective reality on this site as I've heard coming from the RW talkers! What, you want DU shut down too? No, you don't, but that's the rub, what you demand from the right you also have to demand from the left, and in the end, we all wind up losing.

I'm getting sick and goddamn tired of people like you who want to take away our freedom of speech. If you don't like what the idiots are saying on Fox or talk radio, don't listen. Hell, all you're doing is boosting their ratings anyway. If you want everybody to talk and act in some sort of Democratic lockstep, only speaking about pre-approved subjects, then I suggest that you go find yourself a different country to live in, because you obviously are unhappy with the freedoms that we have in this one. And finally, if you want to make a rational, cognizant argument don't evoke Nazi's and the Third Reich, especially when you have no clue about what you're talking about in relation to them. You simply come across as another unintelligent, historically ignorant ranter and raver who has no clue as to what they're talking about.

Virtually everything you're ranting about is indicative of a screed you've internalized instead of an actual reply to what I've written. For example, I didn't compare Beck to Nazi propaganda; I said that *since* the massive effectiveness of Nationalistic propaganda was observed during the Reich, we've known there is a problem related to technology that didn't exist before. Most of your asinine writing is in that same off-target vein.

There are lots of limits to speech, particularly as they apply to false statements. Truth in advertising, libel and slander are all examples where speech is effectively limited with minimal damage to ability to bring forth the truths essential to open and honest government.

And finally - go fuck your self-righteous-incapable-of-reading self.

....certainly doesn't make YOU come across as any kind of brain trust.

i find that nearly every armchair attorney who spouts the "fire in a crowded theatre" response to justify curtailing/criminalizing speech hasn't read the frigging case.

have you?

that's why people constantly use this meme 'fire in a crowded theater" to justify censorship/legislation, which would NEVER stand constitutional scrutiny.

you might as well prosecute rage against the machine, tracy chapman, etc. for their speech. it's about as relevant

the case about falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater was shenck. and this case SUPPORTED CRIMINAL SANCTIONS FOR DISTRIBUTIING ANTI-WAR FLYERS.

do you think anti-war fliers should be criminal?

more importantly, it was OVERTURNED. yes, OVERTURNED by brandenburg v. ohio

brandenburg is the relevant law here. NOT schenck (even though what beck et al do is clearly not relevant to schenck anyway)

unless you can show the speech

is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action, it passes the brandenburg test.

hth

The shouting fire reference is to the claim that freedom speech is absolute, it had nothing to do with the facts of any specific case and frankly, it simply isn't possible to read what was written as if it were.

Are you supporting the assertion that freedom of speech is absolute, and subject to no restrictions?

by justice holmes was used to JUSTIFY PROSECUTIONS FOR DISTRIBUTING ANTI-WAR FLIERS.

get it.

it's also OVERTURNED by brandenburg.

nobody supports that free speech is absolute.

but your citing of the schenck case fails to recognize that it is NOT relevant law, brandenberg is, that it was used as an argument FOR prosecuting somebodyu for an anti-war flier.

the question is (if you actually want to reference the law)

does glen beck use speech that is directed to incite and does incite imminent lawless action?

no lawyer in their right mind would say "yes"

Whether you recognize it or not, legitimate discussion routinely takes places without academic citation or reference to legal cases. In this case when rebutting a claim of absolutism I used the commonly accepted example that demonstrates that there are, in fact, limits on free speech. Your "critique" is appreciated, but completely misplaced.

If you had bothered to actually read the discussion instead of shooting from the hip in a misguided attempt to show us how clever your are, you'd note that my point is that there exists a problem with origins in mass communications technology that we haven't properly dealt with as a society. My call is for concerted investigation and analysis, national debate on the findings and possible legislative action (up to and including constitutional amendment) if that is found to be warranted.

I accept your apology.

ok, i will apologize. i was right, but my brilliant analysis was misdirected ;p

You just keep digging yourself in deeper and deeper, don't you?

I know, I know, I didn't "read the discussion" and "Didn't understand what you were trying to say" and am being "knee jerk" in my responses.

Judging by that post, it doesn't seem that you do. I've been very explicit, if you can show that no problems exist with mass media's ability to manipulate public opinion, that such problems would not benefit from concerted attention (such as Webb is devoting to our justice system) or that our system of laws is so inflexible that it cannot under any circumstances change to meet new challenges then you will have successfully refuted what I've written.

So far, you're just being mouthy.

If you wanted to make a connection on your own, it should have been made in the message body. The OP is misleading, to say the least.

Beck is one big nutball, but to put his name in the OP as being responsible for two cop deaths is offputting & irresponsible. I kept looking for the name "Beck" in the article.

Reports say that Stormfront, is systematically erasing posts by cop-killer Cartwright about Glenn Beck, as they did with Poplawski.
http://twitter.com/ranggrol/status/1632102924

Reports say that Stormfront, is systematically erasing posts by cop-killer Cartwright about Glenn Beck, as they did with Poplawski.
http://twitter.com/ranggrol/status/1632102924

I expect a little better from DUers

only one individual is responsible.

That's not what I was thinking at least.

Not that Beck isn't a total douche, but that's a pretty weak connection.

www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5814&page=2

Stormfront has been scrubbing his stuff from their site


See also:

Another Obama-hating wingnut cop murderer
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/27/724980/-Another-Obama-hating-wingnut-cop-murderer



Glenn Beck can suck it.

Yeah, I lasted about two seconds at that site.

Better to go after the puppeteer than the puppet.

Stormfront closed cop-killer Joshua Cartwrights account, but a few brave bloggers screengrabbed what they could. More to come, I think.
http://twitter.com/ranggrol/status/1632345863

they are inciting the rw crazies to violence. how many shootings incidents do we need before people grasp this?

on TV? Very strange.

It isn't Glenn Beck's fault. He's an overpaid, dumbass, aging toddler, but he isn't to blame.