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BTW, Speaking of Rand, I ran into the Fountainhead on my TV not too long ago

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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 05:55 AM
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BTW, Speaking of Rand, I ran into the Fountainhead on my TV not too long ago
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 06:01 AM
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1. Fortunately, both it and "Atlas" are way too long and boring to actually read.
I tried both, but lost interest due to the endlessly turgid, tendentious prose.

On the other hand, I did enjoy Anthem (very short) and We the Living (an actual story) from the same author.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 06:03 AM
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2. I was really taken aback by the goddamned rape scene in F-Head
That shit was freaky
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 06:28 AM
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3. Who is John Galt? Who cares?
If you want to see a readable version of Rand's philosophies, check out the Sword of Truth series in your local library or sf store.

Over time the entire series has veered more and more into objectivism/libertarianism, no small feet in a sword-and-sorcery book. And the author can get just as long-winded on the printed page as Rand at her most verbose.

Took me awhile to catch on to what I was reading, but the story itself was good.

More to the point, the series ended (quite well, as it happens) which is not as common an event as you might expect. :thumbsup:
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 06:53 AM
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4. I don't think it's a sensible thing to want to do - to read La Rand's "philosophy".
Edited on Tue Apr-28-09 06:55 AM by Joe Chi Minh
These words from the article on her in Wikipedia's just about encapsulates her status in any regard:

"Left-wing linguist and analytic philosopher Noam Chomsky declared Rand to be "one of the most evil figures of modern intellectual history."<114><115> Conservative commentator and founder of the National Review William F. Buckley declared: "Ayn Rand is dead. So, incidentally, is the philosophy she sought to launch dead; it was in fact stillborn."<116>

The reference to the Sword of Truth in any context relating to her reminds me of Jonathon Aitken's comment before being imprisoned for perjury:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/1999/jun/09/uk.matthewengel

On the other hand, I doubt he was ever anything like the essential psychopath Rand clearly was, while the behaviour of the press towards him and his family afterwards, HAS resembled the vomit that passes for reason to the addled brain of the psycopath. Not even his two young daughters have been spared their sneering persecution, albeit random and fitful.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:33 AM
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5. The Fountainhead is laugh out loud funny. MUST viewing! nt
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Jokerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:38 AM
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6. You describe perfectly at least one libertarian I know...
"I can say that she thinks that the only way that one should live their life successfully is by being the biggest, unapologetic asshole that one can be"

I recently viewed "The Fountainhead" for the first time. It was one of those movies I should have given up on in the first half hour but unfortunately, I sat through that entire steaming pile of crap.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 07:48 AM
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7. Fountainhead was a book thought I "had" to like when I was 20.
I now accept my right to consider it one of the worst books ever written. Interestingly, its still in my personal library just that I can start conversations about how bad it is when someone asks me about it. :)
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 08:14 AM
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8. Ayn Rand parody from DUer Telly Savalas

Ella turned towards the window, folded her arms, and said, "Kent, I cannot understand why you read that drivel. If there's anything worse than a bad political philosopher, it's a bad political philosopher who writes bad novels to present her flawed ideas. It's bad enough when she writes nonfiction works that foist assertions and conjecture on the reader and tries to pass it off as 'reason', but when she tries to dress it up in a fictional work with one-dimensional characters and a cheesy plot, it's downright putrid. I'd go so far as to say that her writings dishonor the thousands of years of evolution required for humans to develop language skills.

"The worst element of her 'writing' is how utterly ridiculous the dialogue is. In real life people converse with one another, they don't take turns delivering speeches to one another. If she'd ever spent anytime actually interacting with another human being who wasn't clinically insane, she'd know this and it would be reflected in her writing.

"Furthermore, don't you think she could go to more effort to be a bit more terse? I mean, Jesus Christ, I've seen bumperstickers that are more nuanced than one of her novels, so I don't see why she can't be more succinct in the exposition of her cheap little 'ideas'. Does it really take an 800 page novel to say "guvmint bad, capitalism good"?

"Face it, Kent. She's a second-rate hack that makes Jackie Collins look like Dostoevsky. Put that shit down and do something a bit more intellectually engaging. For instance, there's a Dukes of Hazzard marathon on the country network. Try watching that instead."

Kent set the book on the table and glanced up at Ella.

"Ella," he said, "I see your collectivist friends have poisoned your mind with these bizarre ideas about word economy and multi-dimensional characters. Such things are only devices to enslave the Individualist. Every word the Individualist says is a gift to the universe, so the universe benefits the more he speaks. Hence all this silliness about being brief when trying to make a point does not apply to the Individualist.

"Let's be clear, Ella, that when I say the Individualist gives a gift to the world by expressing his thoughts, it is not altruism that motivates the giving of this gift. No. No. No. Altruism is an evil sentiment that only results in atrocities like child labor laws and homeless people being fed. Thus the Individualist is ego-driven. By satisfying my own desires and showing complete contempt for the needs of others, I make the laissez-faire capitalist system work as it should and the benefits rain down on everyone. Although many economists prefer to use the term 'trickle down.'

"For instance, when I enriched your life last week by giving you a 45 minute lecture on the necessity of abolishing the capital gains tax, I didn't do it because I wanted to please you. Rather I did it because I love the sound of my own voice. The fact that you were enlightened by my observations is only secondary. Nevertheless it demonstrates my point about how being selfish is superior to being altruistic. Had I been altruistic and payed heed to you wish for me to...what was that phrase you used repeatedly? 'Shut the fuck up', I believe it was? Well, had I done that, then you'd have spent the rest of your life unaware of the great thoughts that course through my mind on an hourly basis.

"Yes, Ella. It amazes me how unwilling the collectivist mind is to accept the truth. Why wasn't it just last week when you were claiming that society should chain down the Individual by using some of his resources to aid victims of Hurricane Katrina? After I was able to overcome my feeling of horror and disgust that you would suggest denying the Individual his Freedom, I successfully rebutted your point by observing that A equals A, therefore it logically follows that the so called victims should fend for themselves and not depend on the altruism of collectivists. Rather than daring to challenge this impenetrable logic, you simply dismissed my comments by calling me an asshole. Were I a petty collectivist, I might have taken offense at that remark. However, I am a noble Individual and know that your hurtful words were motivated by your envy of my superior intellect. For it is individuals such as I who propel society forward.

"Um...the Individual's freedom should be regarded as...um...Egoism is the one true...um...er...what was it we were talking about, Ella?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4973593&mesg_id=4975243
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-28-09 08:43 AM
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9. There are those who say AR was the opposite of her characters, dependent upon sycophants to
support her neurotic self-absorbed narcissism.

The movie The Passion of Ayn Rand casts her in, at minimum, a very ambivalent light.

What did the woman ever actually produce?

I wonder what the truth is about her.
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