West Point dilemma

Later this week, I may possibly be traveling to West Point. My daughter's college team is playing against Army and I am really torn about going to see the game.

On the one hand, We have travelled to many campuses to watch her play and really enjoy it. Even watched her play against Army in a tournament. Her team does not get a lot of fan support and we would be missed.

Conversely, I am not sure I will be able to control myself - I have a tendancy to become vocal when I see things happening on the field (especially dirty play) that threaten the safety of the players and the integrity of the game. **Note** - the players for Army are nasty, vicious and play dirty. In contrast, the ladies at Annapolis are a pleasure to play against, even though they are almost as good as Army and have (also) beaten my daughter's team every time they have met over the last two years. Couple that with my dislike for the military and I am afraid that I could say something that is objectionable, especially to my daughter (who is very much of a "please do not cause a scene Dad" kind of young woman.

I am also worried about driving onto that campus in a car that has bumper stickers that would get me banned from the local VFW parkling lot. Would they even let me on campus if my vehicle is sporting opinions that are definitely not welcome in the military world? What kind of harrassment would I be subject to if we go?

Right now, I am leaning toward going (and wearing duct tape over my mouth). It could be a good exercise in dealing with the enemy on their turf (literally), an opportunity for growth, etc. And I do not want to be intimidated into not supporting my daughter and her teammates, especially when they are going into the belly of the beast as a decided underdog.

Help me out, DU. What would YOU do?

I think you'll be surprised at how many military folks are against the Iraq War.

It's always good to hear good things about the folks at Navy.

The Army players bend and break the rules, are disrespectful (verbally abusive) to officials and opponents, and in general, make playing against them an unpleasant experience.

My daughter loves playing against Navy because they are so good, and good sports about it. She has even cultivated some semi-acquaintances at Annapolis from the lacrosse field. Not so with Army.

I attribute it to the kind of person who is drawn to each branch of the military - more "psycho-killers" in the army. They seem to get off more on the bloodshed they hope to cause because they like the personal thrill of killing things. There is an arrogance that permeates their attitude and actions on the field that goes way beyond "being proud" of their athletic prowess.

Keep your mouth shut and don't worry about your car.

both of my parents served during WWII and I'm convinced what they did was honorable.

Vietnam and Iraq were different stories but it wasn't the grunts on the ground who made the decision to go to war, in fact, it is illegal in our country for the military to make the decision on when to go to war.

We need a military. Just because we need to elect leaders who are smarter than dirt and don't start immoral wars doesn't mean we should degrade the military. It is a necessary evil.

(In college a professor chose me to participate in a week long seminar at the Air Force Academy. When I returned I asked him why he sent me since my views were so different from the others at the Academy. He said: "I've been in the military all my life, that's exactly why I sent you. They need to know people out here think differently." Drive your car with bumperstickers proudly on campus and try to think of yourself as a ambassador from reality.)

Having a military is not an evil, necessary or not. As much as we'd like to see everybody get along and there be no need for armed services, that hasn't been the case in the past and won't likely be in the future. The fact is that no matter who you are, you'll always be tested, and it's a pretty good idea to be prepared for whatever challenge may come your way.

Other than that, you're spot on.

but I do think making weapons and training people to kill other people is kinda evil. Even if necessary.

And don't even think about the duct tape. This is your daughter's day to shine - don't phuck it up for her.

I can control myself for an hour or two.

And thanks to all for your comments. BTW - my father also served in WWII and I am nothing but very proud of him for that.

to celebrate her team's victory. :-) It's gorgeous up there - enjoy it!

And document any CHEATing you observe. Then turn it in to the West Point Administration. They will expel any cadets who are caught cheating. And if any team members lie about it, they too will be expelled.

I am not that naive. Nor do I have a death wish. These are future officers, not the "grunts" who get seduced into the military by recruiters. The administration is certainly not going to go after their soon-to-be leaders.

Discretion (and silence) is the better part of valor, in this instance.

at West Point. The honor code is taken very seriously. There are a number of people who have been kicked out. No cadet will bother you.

I haven't lived under the honor code at West Point, but I know very well the one at the Merchant Marine Academy, having lived under that one. With the exception of the tolerance clause, it's identical to West Point's.

discipline during the 1976 cheating scandal. Not a fun time for him or the Army. West Point will NOT put up with childish BS from its cadets.

and found the Army crews to be some of the most pleasant on the river. I doubt it has changed that much in 10 years. as intimidating as it may be to go against a shell named 'Duty, Honor, Country" win or lose, they come over after and shake your hand.

(and slightly off-topic) - where did you row? :hi: I rowed with the club at my school in Virginia (we didn't have an official team) and I've only come across military crews at the Head of the Schuylkill Regatta. I remember being really impressed with the Army crews in particular, though, since we actually saw those women get off the water and right onto the ergs to pull a 6k after the race. :wow: There were a few schools competing there that weren't very sportsmanlike at all, though...one crew in particular shoved past us at the starting line (our number hadn't even been called yet, and they were behind us) and caught our oars with theirs. :mad: Luckily none of the equipment was damaged, but my crew was ticked off that they didn't get disqualified or anything, since it was pretty obvious that they had broken several rules. Ah well.

/off-topic rant

until I blew out out my back at that fucking dad vails on said schulykill.

:( That's why I had to quit rowing as well...and ironically I never even made it to Dad Vails because I ruined a ligament at HOSR. Not fun.

rowing a coxed pair. (otherwise known as a gunboat) the next 500 meters hurt like shit, the last 800 are a complete blur. finished though then spent the summer on my stomach.

Mine actually didn't occur on the water, luckily - it happened when I was helping carry the shell back to our site about a mile away. I was one of the tallest of the eight women in our boat, and ended up literally bending over backwards to keep the boat up...yeah, not so great for my back. x( Good times.

I find it impossible to believe it's changed much. Yes, there have been cheating scandals - even going back to the 50s. They are really remarkable exceptions to the rule. When I was at the USCGA we'd have welcomed 'peaceniks' - even though it was before Viet Nam reached the American conciousness. (We did hae a little thing called the Cuban Missile Crisis, though.) The cadets I met from Annapolis and West Point were just as much 'straight arrows' as we were.

Ask 'ProudDad" - he was at Annapolis the same years I was at the USCGA. (Us 'lefties' actually have experience.)

the 1976 cheating scandal. Over 150 cadets were given the boot.

That's why there are referees/umpires/officials at games, to take care of this. As somebody who went through one of the service academies, I'll tell you that there is a motivation to win at everything, as it may be a game now, but your life next year. Hell, you've got to be highly motivated just to go through the application process.

http://www.sagaw.org

which is right across the bridge to travel to West Point and Bear Mountain. You will have no problems in that area. It's a beautiful drive and try to see Bear Mountain if you have some time.

Now on West Point, I'm not sure what you will encounter. However if a cadet gives you a hard time about your freedom of speech, I'm sure that can be quickly corrected. They aren't all the enemy, some of the cadets needed free college.

You're not in red-mans land, it's mostly blue.

Suck it up and support your daughter.

shut your trap and support your daughter. If you think that your bumper stickers are potentially offensive, cover them up temporarily with masking tape.

It's not rocket science. She's already apparently told you to try to be a normal human. Why don't you listen to her? Be a parent.

Army's team. And, show good sportsmanship. It's just a game. And, don't worry about your car. Having a family member teaching there, and two nephews who are cadets, I can tell you that the Army won't take kindly to somebody messing up somebody else's car simply because the owner chooses to express their freedom of speech.

Not all military people, including cadets, are for the Iraq war.

My daughter is married to air force captain and they are both democrats. I spent 6 weeks last year on base when their son was born. Like someone else said. A lot of the military folks are against the war, they just don't scream about it real loud because that would be like saying send me to the worst base you've got...

Behind close doors at the voting polls I bet most of them these days would vote like us...

In every potentially negative outcome you refer to here,
YOU have the power to decide whether it happens or not,
not West Point.

I'm not offering you any answers; that would be innapropriately
presumptuous. I'm just saying that -MY- best tool for solving
dilemmas is to change my perspective. Sometimes looking at
it from a different angle makes the answer just jump right out.

and we now have a Progressive Congressman in John Hall. The people here are rather cool and I have been driving around with my Impeach Bush and Bush/Cheney Weapons of Mass Deception bumper stickers for two years now without one problem. In fact I have had others ask me where I bought them.

As to driving into West Point. If you feel uncomfortable about doing it, you can park in town which is right outside the entrance. West Point itself is quite beautiful and you should go an EnJoy your daughter's game! Have fun!!!!!!!!

then the problem may be with *you*, not them.

consider taking the weekend off politics when you go to see her match. Hypothetically speaking, what if she decided to apply there?

Not sure I would refer to the female cadets at the U.S.Military Academy as the "enemy". Remember many of those women are there as appointments from blue state Representatives and Senators.