I get so tired of posters "imagining" Obama's "really good reasons" for breaking promises

Is there a difference between Obama breaking promises, and Bush having done likewise?

Obama makes mistakes, does not mean he is close to being Bush. Did he get us into Iraq in the first place? No. Did he order us to torture our enemies? No. Did he make a mistake in not releasing these photos? Yes.

Obama is much better than Bush on many issues - thank goodness! This poll just asks a question, without taking a position on Barack overall.

Bush promised lots he backtracked on - from going to Mars to being a compassionate conservative.

I always thought promises actually required a person to say "I promise".

If I say "I'll bring home dinner tonight" - but then I decide that I'd rather go out to eat - have I broken a promise? No, I've changed my mind. But whatever.

It must suck to live in a world where every changed mind is a broken promise. But then again - mind changing isnt as dramatic. :eyes:

so if someone says one day "I will release torture photos" and then later says he won't - so long as the sentence doesn't include the word "promise" - it's really not?

A: "I'll do it tomorrow"
(tomorrow comes and goes)
B: "You didnt do it"
A: "I forgot"
B: "But you PROMISED"

Thats absurd.

:spray:

I will bring home dinner tonight I know I have said I would do something and I do my best to bring home dinner.

When Obama said that he would have TRANSPARENCY he made a promise.

Read this:
MEMORANDUM FOR THE HEADS OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES
SUBJECT: Transparency and Open Government


My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.
Government should be transparent. Transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their Government is doing. Information maintained by the Federal Government is a national asset. My Administration will take appropriate action, consistent with law and policy, to disclose information rapidly in forms that the public can readily find and use. Executive departments and agencies should harness new technologies to put information about their operations and decisions online and readily available to the public. Executive departments and agencies should also solicit public feedback to identify information of greatest use to the public.
Government should be participatory. Public engagement enhances the Government's effectiveness and improves the quality of its decisions. Knowledge is widely dispersed in society, and public officials benefit from having access to that dispersed knowledge. Executive departments and agencies should offer Americans increased opportunities to participate in policymaking and to provide their Government with the benefits of their collective expertise and information. Executive departments and agencies should also solicit public input on how we can increase and improve opportunities for public participation in Government.
Government should be collaborative. Collaboration actively engages Americans in the work of their Government. Executive departments and agencies should use innovative tools, methods, and systems to cooperate among themselves, across all levels of Government, and with nonprofit organizations, businesses, and individuals in the private sector. Executive departments and agencies should solicit public feedback to assess and improve their level of collaboration and to identify new opportunities for cooperation.
I direct the Chief Technology Officer, in coordination with the Director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) and the Administrator of General Services, to coordinate the development by appropriate executive departments and agencies, within 120 days, of recommendations for an Open Government Directive, to be issued by the Director of OMB, that instructs executive departments and agencies to take specific actions implementing the principles set forth in this memorandum. The independent agencies should comply with the Open Government Directive.

This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by a party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

This memorandum shall be published in the Federal Register.


BARACK OBAMA

Read it here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/TransparencyandOpenGovernment/

:eyes:

He already released the memos - He let us know torture happened. The pictures change what? :shrug: The pictures change nothing.

:dunce:

You don't agree Obama has broken some of his promises?

Especially long-time DUers who should know better.

But anything to intimidate the other side and make them feel unwanted eh? It's all good when we want to win the internetz.

Some DUers act no better than junior high kids with the schoolyard bully tactics, and frankly, it disgusts me and makes the job of the mods so much harder.

this is a DISCUSSION board, after all

How would it be, if we all agreed on everything?????

If you don't like it, argue, ignore, or don't click.

Pretending Obama has some secret master plan to release the pictures, based solely on the fact that he said he doesn't want to, is to pretend you know something you don't.

everyone is entitled to speculate wildly based on little fact, as well.

because?

I think it is obvious when you see this same poster one every thread, many many times with these substance-less one-liners.

I worked hard to elect Obama - time and money. That means I get to bitch when he does things he promised NOT to do. It seems we need to hold his feet to the fire - after all, that is one reason advanced for why Obama has "reasons" for doing things he said he would not.

it.

Is there a difference between promising something that you don't intend to do, and promising something that you do intend to do, but for various reasons (good or bad reasons) you don't do?

Bush and Obama are very alike in that they are humans from the same Empire at the same time.

At the same time, they have very different personal backgrounds.

People certainly project their own hopes and dreams onto their leaders. People do imagine there leaders and there heroes have pure intentions and good reasons for what they do. And people tend to look for the good in those they like and for the bad in those they don't like.

But your poll question is far to vague and speculative to be answered in any intelligent way.

A better question would be "Is there a difference between Obama breaking promises, and your mama having done likewise."

Because it then becomes kind of a Zen koan instead of a poorly constructed push poll.

A promise made during a campaign may not be viable as circumstances change. It is really short-sighted to think of it as "breaking promises" in every instance. Sometimes it is reality.

As Nixon said to Ford - that's not stated in the poll - as it is not true.

when they don't get everything they demand exactly as they want it right fucking now.

I'm more surprised to see Hitler getting a well-deserved rest and not being summoned in your original post.

hun.

It must be so difficult for you.

There are sometimes good reasons for breaking promises. But I am annoyed by our collective projection; posters who assume good motives simply because they like the guy.

End income tax for seniors making less than $50,000
"Will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This will eliminate taxes for 7 million seniors -- saving them an average of $1,400 a year-- and will also mean that 27 million seniors will not need to file an income tax return at all."
>>More
No. 234: Allow five days of public comment before signing bills
-To reduce bills rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them, Obama "will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days."

-Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials
"No political appointees in an Obama-Biden administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years. And no political appointee will be able to lobby the executive branch after leaving government service during the remainder of the administration."
-Create a $3,000 tax credit for companies that add jobs
"During 2009 and 2010, existing businesses will receive a $3,000 refundable tax credit for each additional full-time employee hired."

-Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009
"Obama and Biden are calling for legislation that would allow withdrawals of 15% up to $10,000 from retirement accounts without penalty (although subject to the normal taxes). This would apply to withdrawals in 2008 (including retroactively) and 2009."

-Recognize the Armenian genocide
"Two years ago, I criticized the Secretary of State for the firing of U.S. Ambassador to Armenia, John Evans, after he properly used the term 'genocide' to describe Turkey's slaughter of thousands of Armenians starting in 1915. … as President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide."

Liberal St Pete's Times has scoreboard - and that doesnt include his promises on not voting for FISA (he did) and to release torture photos (now he wont)
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises

Fucking verucasaltunderground !

and hold my fingers in my ears and pretend that everything is rosyyyyy.
pollyanna.

It must be simple living in such a black and white world. Or is it either with us or against us? Bush? Hitler! Gasp!

You really don't get the point. It's not what I'm saying at all. That's okay. Just keep screaming, sooner or later you'll go deaf and stop bothering everyone else.

Now go bother someone else.

it's also cute how you replied to the other poster and then asked them to leave.


That's cute!

Very cute.

They truly and honestly think his shit smells good, and they will tell you that as they hold their nose.

They think they are doing Obama a favor by telling him, "Wow, your shit smells good! Real good!"
They think they are also doing the Dems a favor and the country a favor.

They aren't.

But they don't know that. I think their intentions are good.

I never said anything of the sort, but that's the only way you can parse anything which doesn't precisely match your desires.

(insert some cutesy mommy/cute remark here)

NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW!

But that did not stop you from characterizing others in that way, with photos from your favorite kiddie movie-is that you Mike TV?
If nothing else, try to learn that the tactics you use yourself are not tacits you can complain about when they are used agaisnt you. "Har-umph!" He said, "Har-umph, I never said anything of the kind! I'd never mischaracterize anyone, har-umph!"

but are instead things that just haven't been done yet... then the analogy fits.

If he just hasn't done them yet, that's not a broken promise...

Also, didn't he go to Turkey and mention the Genocide?

The party over principle attitude in Democrats is just as reprehensible as it was in republicans.

and lying, brain damaged freepers?

Nope.

still do not understand his tactics. I am glad he is handling all of these insane problems and not someone else. I guess some people have to play the outraged role. I will sit back an observe before running out with my pitchfork.

There are lots and lots and lots of people -- Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, and the people who listen to them and buy their books -- who would just LOVE to see President Obama fail.

Before anyone starts criticizing the President, they should do at least two things:

1. Reflect on the eight years of war, torture, and tyranny we (and the rest of the world) endured under the illegal, immoral, and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime.

2. Consider what it means to give Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, and all the rest of that ilk ANY ammunition against the only hope we have for peace, prosperity, diversity, gender equality, justice, and love.