Certain practices were illegal, were then "legalized" and are now "banned"

Are those specific practices legal or illegal as we speak? Is their usage confined to certain populations? Does it matter if the people the practices are used against are citizens or not? Could a President after Obama "un ban" the practices?

There were legal memos drafted claiming (on bad grounds) that these things could be done legally, but they did not change existing law.

I personally don't think you can rename practices that have a long history combined with prosecutions and death as something that is suddenly "legal" and aok with either the American justice system,which has domestically incarcerated people for the practice, or with international law which has caused people to be hung for the same practices.

I'm just wondering, what is the official status of these practices today? Doesn't this need to be clarified so that there are no future "misunderstandings"?

torture. That's right, torture. Not "enhanced interrogation."

(For the record all people should have exactly the same civil rights, no ifs ands or buts. In every state.)

in a "signing statement:"

"The executive branch shall construe Title X in Division A of the Act, relating to detainees, in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President to supervise the unitary executive branch and as Commander in Chief and consistent with the constitutional limitations on the judicial power, which will assist in achieving the shared objective of the Congress and the President, evidenced in Title X, of protecting the American people from further terrorist attacks."


I don't know for certain if Obama has superseded Bush's interpretation of this act, but in the way that Bush did, I suppose a future president could claim that these practices were "unbanned"

Then how the Hell can ANYTHING that fucking bastard signed be considered valid?

it makes discussion among reasonable people a little harder.

Bush was the 43rd President and Obama the 44th, I take something like that for granted when talking to people.

in a signing statement?! Damn! We HAVE to have some kind of clarifying tribunal to make sure that this shit NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN!

Is he saying that as unitary executive he gets to ignore the law if he chooses/needs/wants to in order to protect Americans from further terrorist attacks? What are "the constitutional limitations on the judicial power" ?

Does a self-serving "signing statement" have any basis in law? Can it supercede/pervert actual passed legislation?

And that Congress allows them to have.

The SCOTUS usually prefers to stay out of "political questions," so its a power battle not likely to be resolved soon.

However, IIRC, President Obama has ordered all federal agencies not to rely on Bush era signing statements any longer.

Part of the "unitary executive theory" holds that only the president can interpret the constitutionality of treaties and engage in foreign affairs. And that the courts lacked any jurisdiction or power in the matter.

Its some scary shit.

The Patriot Act contains the language of the law that they can be convicted of violating - they think their memos and executive orders could legalize torture. They figure they could cram the patriot act down our throats, they didn't realize they were actually criminalizing their own conduct.

I call it poetic justice.

In October of 2001 they amended the Torture Statute to include a conspiracy provision (section (c).)

"Conspiracy to Torture" would sum it up, I believe.

Did you make an OP about this? You should. I wish you would. It bears repeating multiple times. I haven't heard this even when people were discussing the "Torture Memos". What are the "Torture Memos" BUT a conspiracy to torture?

:silly:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5660387&mesg_id=5660387

I just think it is hysterical, they forced the Patriot Act down our throats and it contains the amendment to the torture laws that each and everyone of them can be tried under.

You have tumbled onto an extremely important part of this discussion, I think. I missed your thread,and I'm pretty vigilant about the torture. Please try again, people need to know this.