to all of you shouting "xx% of the people want this to happen, and our dems better vote that way"...

a -D following a representative's name isn't indicative of anything... it does not mean what you think it means.

and "tell them that they either act like Democrats, or you'll actively campaign for an *actual* Democrat next time around" is a pretty empty threat. the party is pretty much going to ensure who will be up for election next time.

don't like nancy pelosi? you want to "tell" her how to act like a democrat? you want to unseat her if she doesn't? good luck with that.


its not that i don't agree with you. but all of this "call them now!" or "sign this online petition!" nonsense is just nonsense if you are not a constitute.

the party is not attached to the "will of the people" as expressed in some nationwide poll. no party acts as a whole. even the "non-corrupt" representatives will vote for the people they represent when they have to.

for example, a democratic representative from north carolina is probably going to vote on "credit card" legislation in a very different manner than you would expect a democrat to vote. defense spending is another issue that might surprise you. or any one of the thousands of other local issues that will have democrats voting for the people that they represent, rather that the results of a national poll.

these "xx%" arguments are great, but they in no way reflect the way things actually work.

y'all get that, right?

With an attitude like this, you're destined for grief here...but I salute you!


:)

but I would say it gets real murky, The constituents vote, but they don't finance the campaign.
That is the insurance companies etc etc..

I do agree, the American people as a whole, are at the bottom of the list.

I also have health insurance, but want single payer.

Not everyone is a whore.

I don't care HOW conservative someone is socially (and that's what you get in a lot of rural areas--they're not fiscally conservative as we understand it because they're used to the idea of helping out their neighbors. They just don't like strangers and strange people. Very few of them would throw a fit if we made the banks and the credit card companies stop screwing them over. Only the RICH "conservatives" would have an issue with that. Same with health care.

Our politicians are acting as if they're bought and paid for. I don't accuse them of "not acting like a true Democrat. I accuse them of being a natural criminal class. It was true in Mark Twain's day and it's obviously true now as well.

for a great many of them, i think this is true.

and for those that are not, i think they do on many occasions vote in the best interest of those they represent.

aka blue dogs who twenty years ago would have been... REPUBLICANS.... here is a problem.

Polls consistently give support to single payer option. Now they won't go there, I didn't pay for their campaign. The scales are off for many people. We in theory elect representatives, but until I join the 5%, they don't represent me.

before you rush off and sign that next online petition.

is that the best you have?

You're a real fucking inspiration. I'm going to go take a nap and wait for someone in power to decide what's best for tomorrow.

best of luck to you...

A big signal the country was voting for change and why shouldn't we expect to receive it? Am I wrong in thinking NC voted for that change too? And I don't think signing petitions and using other means to raise our voices is nonsense. The point of all the hard work Howard Dean did was say we could have an impact. So what exactly is the point of your OP, that all is hopeless, that we might as well give up and go back to bed because things will never get better or change because our party isn't accountable to us and will just kick ore wishes as voters down the street?

As to knowing hoiw the system works, we do, which is why we're trying to change it.

with the same ineffectual methods? ok. keep it up.

best of luck to you.

Sour grapes not fun to eat

troll that has successfully skirted the line for the last few months.

You've found your element in the small but vocal cadre of homeless republicans that dwell here, but I still haven't discovered if you're evil, deluded, or just "thick as a brick" and think everyone else is as dim as you are.

Now, report this and have it deleted, but you and I will both know.

all democrats all vote for the best of all people? really?

then tell me where my logic is flawed. show me where i am wrong. explain the workings where i misspoke.


or, better yet... be an ass and accuse me of being in a "small but vocal cadre of homeless republicans that dwell here... evil, deluded, or just "thick as a brick".

i love posters like you. you don't present any argument. you just accuse. how small and ignorant.

yeah, you and i both know. that you can't defend why you do not like what i present (the truth) and you choose to hide behind your "he must be a troll" crap when someone say something you cannot refute.

fine. if that's all you got. live with that...

A very courageous and dead-right-on post. I applaud you, and agree completely - that doesn't happen very often - with what you've written here.

So many people don't know how the process works. I'm consistently stunned at the level here of - oh, it's a rough word, but it's the right word - ignorance of the legislative process, how it works, how it came into being, how it is influenced, and how online petitions and calls to legislators are meaningless, empty gestures that might make the actor feel as if s/he's actually doing something when, in fact, they're not.

Today, you look to the big contributors to a legislator's campaign in order to discern how s/he's going to vote on any given issue. The letter after the name doesn't mean much any more, which makes me - a lifelong Democrat, an old Democrat - very sad.

Now you've already been called a Republican (gasp!) and a troll, and I'm sure you'll be called a lot of other names, because that seems to be the kneejerk reaction of the most uninformed (I'm being kind here - I meant "ignorant") among us, but your message is clear and true and heartbreaking.

Reality bites, but we've got to find new ways to make our sentiments known, understanding full well that the odds are vastly against us. Just about every four years, I vow never to vote again, but I end up donating and doing everything I can for the candidate I believe in. In Obama, I let myself get carried away and got my hope up again, to the point of being tearful with gratitude and relief more than once.

Now, he speaks very clearly of "indefinite detentions" and finding ways to justify them, the Constitution be damned, and, yes, your post is true and good and very, very sad.

Thank you, and remember that the people who take shots at you are just annoyed that you've called them on their, uh, state of being uninformed. (How's THAT for graceful and generous?)

Well done..............

:thumbsup:

your post says the thing i am not explaining at all very well here.


"we've got to find new ways to make our sentiments known"


our old ways are not working. what do they call it when you do the same things over and over expecting different results?

there are a lot of bright people here. maybe some new ideas will come out...

Psychosis?

Neurosis?

All of the above - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I don't know how this is going to come about, but - this is my biggest fear - if some truly charismatic and powerful figure rose up, and had the right money people behind him and the smart people who could craft the ideal message, we could get carried away on what might be a viable third party.

My big fear comes from the curiosity of who might be the money people behind him/her. I know some of the folks who have been behind Obama from the beginning of his political career - they are good people, liberal, wealthy Chicagoans, most of them Jewish, all of them socially responsible and generous - and I think they've been surprised by the things he inherited from Chimpy - the financial crisis, primarily.

I keep hoping that once that whole thing levels out - if it ever does - that he'll be able to tend to the important social matters, health insurance, primarily, but the idea that he's taken single payer out of contention is very troubling. I didn't see that coming.

Politics is the art of the compromise, the art of the possible, I know and appreciate that, but someday someone has to stand for something and not worry about reelection. I want someone who had the social courage of LBJ in 1963 and 1964 when, against all the tendered wisdom, he strongarmed Congress into passing some amazing social programs, not the least of which was the Voting Rights Act of 1964. He did so much, flying in the face of Southern Democrats in every way.

It's funny to me to realize I now see LBJ as a hero, but he was, in spite of his tragic mistakes with Vietnam. He did great social things for our country, and we have to remember that.

LBJ had great big balls. I want that in my President. I still believe in Obama, but I'm shaky.......

my favorite president. and a man that probably would be torn to pieces in today's political environment. but dude knew how to exert the pressure. how to get shit done, even before he was president.

he was probably as corrupt as any of them. but he did have his ideas/ideals. and he made things happen in times that were politically tougher than now. you think single payer is a nut? how about the civil rights act of 1964. imagine the problems getting that passed. but LBJ did it.

old school politics.


we need thinking like that...

keep on keeping on, friend...

You know, like that lady on "Seinfeld" who took George up to her room and he was thinking that he was going to get lucky but she chained him to the bed, stole his pants and his money and left?

Oh and interesting post by the way. Happy to rec.

In hindsight, "Seinfeld" was a very weird show...