You mean to tell us that a cabal of Chickenhawk Republicon Homelanders, led by an AWOL prep-school cheerleader and an embittered, fear-obsessed ideological clown named Dickie 'Five Military Deferments' Cheney, lied us into a war, sent our sons and daughters off to fight and die in a foriegn land, all because they imagined a bunch of occult Gooey Hooey about GOG and MAGOG? And that these imagined Biblical FEARS lived sickly in their souls causing them to meet occultly and conjure up a brutal, misdirected Crusade, whose main outcomes were to cause massive suffering, regional instability, and depletion of the US Treasury, while yielding massive oil & munitions profits for fatcat Republicon cronies? Then these same Chickenhawk Republicons drag our beloved USA into the cesspool by engaging in wholesale, systematic torture not for information, but for their own sick sado-masochistic ends? Well, Ptooooey on all of that."

- The American people

The Republicons FEAR-DRiven, Lie-Spouting Chickenhawk 'Leaders'

:applause:

:yourock:

:fistbump:

Actually, we've known this for a long time. And, as Pat Buchanan explained YEARS ago, W's support of Israel is based on the End Times prophecies, too.

Scary shit. Scarier still how facts only trickle out and really go nowhere. If sex isn't involved, facts remain hidden. Then again, sex is involved in the torture scandal and it's STILL not going anywhere. Go figure. :shrug:

was largely faith-based.

what comes to mind is a classic line from Yellow Man
'Cocaine will blow you brain
but the sensemelia is irieeeeeeeeeeee"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PqA0ekm1R8

'Stark raving mad' are the mildest words I can find to describe George Bush

Thank you. we needed that

George Bush, dick Cheney and the entire war mongering PNAC. Bush used the Bible to bullshit his way into Washington and the fools out there in Bible belt America ate the bullshit up like it was candy straight from Heaven. Just like when Bush's grandpa's(Prescott Bush)friend Adolf Hitler, did the same kind of attack now and blame "Gawd" later bullshit on Poland in 1939, to touch off WWII. I'll bet Bush can't even spell Iraq!

Greed and More-Greed were the only "Satanic" forces that compelled the "Decider" to decide to bomb hundreds of sleeping babies in Iraq. Those little Iraqi kids didn't have a "Right To Life" the Almighty "Decider" decided. Those babies are just as dead as they would have been if Saddam had used chemical weapons on his own babies again. The "rape rooms" at Abu Ghraib were still "Rape Rooms" after George was in control of Abu Ghraib. The raped are just as raped as when Saddam's goons were doing the raping. The torture and murder went on too in those Iraqi prisons, just like when Saddam was still calling the plays.

Its Time...I gonna start it...the Luau...lemme PM

Two inches of rain in about a half hour. And now(OMG)the thunder is starting again.(Holy Sheep shit Margo!) I have never seen weather this violent in my almost 60 years in this area. My yard was a lake yesterday afternoon. Trees falling, craters cut through the ground. I was walking across my yard to rescue my landscape timbers that were being washed away and the yard caved in under my feet. I spent the morning filling up a large hole with sand and gravel and now MORE RAIN! The Monsoon season in West Bye Gawd Virginia...who would have thunk it?

BTW, Great Website and idea!

I think that's in the Book of Holes somewhere...

Them pubs like Rushbo wouldn't need all them performance enhancing blue pills if...their wives didn't use that fabric softener stuff when they wash the pub's BVDs. The pubs are big on the Wesson Oil parties too I hear, but they never even thought about the fact that all that Wesson oil is Shortening.

about short dicks and how to duct tape them into positions

The poor Pubs...all flustered and no where to go...

Defeated, deflated, disgusted, demeaned, despondent, depressed, and disgraced....

Licking wounds time...plotting How to GET BACK IN POWER...even if they have to lie cheat and pilfer us to death..

Hot hints for them:

Run Cheney/Bachmann in 2012....

I say tooth, because most of the pubs around these parts usually have one tooth or less to gnash.

"Defeated, deflated, disgusted, demeaned, despondent, depressed, disgraced," demented, douche-bags and dip-shits, every one!

What has ten thousand legs and one tooth? The repub unemployment line in Washington DC.

Lemme guess....

Call out them Truth Sprayer Units....spray them Lying Pubs with the Truth Solution dripping wet....

Rove is telling everyone the SC Nom is "Not Smart"...

The man is confirming his Lack of Country First beans....he has peridontis of the brain....premature lobotomies will do that...

The Unitoothers are like termites....they cost big time to get rid of them...

That Gnashing of tooth! The pubs are always gnashing the truth too. They grind it to bits and then they spit out pure sh!t!

Karl Rove belongs in jail where he can't hurt the country anymore! And speaking of fangs, the pubs are all lower down than a snake's belly in a wagon rut! Starting wars to win elections and steal oil, or was that to steal elections and win oil?

I think alot of the Bible, and other texts are riddles to test our hearts. If they were perfectly clear, with no need for interpretation, we could only be judged based on obedience. (That assumes the purpose is judgement in some context learning can be a part of judgement.)

The main riddle in Revelations for me is the following.

A thing will rise to power and many will see that person as good, they will be wrong and deceived.

Then the real savior will arrive and destroy the false one and set things right.


The trap I found in this is the cycle of overthrow, because every new leader can be called the bad guy and then need to be overthrown, and every time it happens, other people can say the same thing about the new leader till he is overthrown, and over and over.

I think this is why interpretation and picking what parts you believe become traps that can lead people to make choices that go against the teachings of the very Bible.

So for me, I just try and love my Lord and God, and try to love my neighbor, and thank God for his mercy when I fail at either. As far as worrying about the end times. Nope, not going to worry about it, it can only get in my way of what I think are the better ways of Loving God, and Loving your neighbor as yourself. Also since I only worship God Almighty, I am safe from being deceived in the end times way.

The "thing" is the great permeating god of Fear, whose minions include Cheat Deceit Greed & friends. "You cannot serve two masters"

you are stating so well, see Christopher Hill's Antichrist in Seventeenth-Century England wherein he discusses this in the context of the English Civil Wars. Excellent reading.

http://www.amazon.com/Antichrist-Seventeenth-Century-Memorial-Lectures/dp/0860919978/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243304811&sr=1-1

There are many other excellent studies on this, such as Fuller's Naming the Antichrist: The History of an American Obsession ) http://www.amazon.com/Naming-Antichrist-History-American-Obsession/dp/0195109791/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243304956&sr=1-1

but Hill's has the advantage of being limited in its time-frame and geographical spread.

The main riddle in Revelations for me is the following.

First off, it's the Book of Revelation--not plural, no "S." We atheists have a lot fun pointing out that common error. OTOH, if you can't even get the NAME of the frigging book right, I'm certainly not inclined to trust any of your interpretations.

That raving bunch of lunacy, as many Buy-bull scholars have pointed out, would make perfect sense if we were all back in the ancient time when it was written--whenever that was.

Most of it was written in symbolic code, for an audience of Xians who were under the thumb of the Roman Empire. Unfortunately for the world, a few centuries later Xians were running the Roman Empire, and happily persecuting others as they had once been persecuted.

e.g., it's been pretty well established that all the "666" hoopla referred to the Emperor Nero. As Wikipedia notes: When treated as Hebrew numbers, the letters of Nero's name add up either to 616 or 666, representing the two devil numbers given in ancient versions of Revelation and the two ways of spelling his name in Hebrew (NERO and NERON).

Along with "devil numbers" are good numbers chock full of Powerful Juju, like the number 7. Which explains why Revelation is loaded with sevens. Seven stars, seven lampstands, seven seals, etc. etc.

I was commenting on the abundance of interpretations. And why I don't worry about them.

Nice catch on the S :)

Meet the new boss,
Same as the old boss.

We don't get fooled again.

Que The Who

I think alot of the Bible, and other texts are riddles to test our hearts.

This reminds me all too much of the Young Earth belief that God (or maybe Satan) left all kinds of phony fossils, rock strata, Carbon-14, etc., lying around to trick humans into thinking the earth was billions of years old. Rejecting this science is a test of faith for many.

The Young Earthers say that a supernatural being played a practical joke on humans to "test" them. You say that religious scriptures are actually "riddles" designed to "test our hearts". What's the difference?

I'm sorry, and I'm sure you're sincere, but this "God as Joker" business simply doesn't make sense to me.

:shrug:

I do not believe God is a joker.

I also would not say that fossils are not there as a test of faith. Although I understand what you are saying. :)

In my belief, the existence of fossils, has nothing to do with the proof or faith in God.

The purpose of riddles can also be to get someone to think. Where ever there are riddles people have to think, and I believe that when we think, we find better ideas for society and ourselves. I actually reached a great deal of my faith through thought.

Great letter, Hawk!
GAC

:crazy:

Hey, he's an alcoholic you'd like to have a beer with.

Superficial fanatic seems to describe all too many Americans these days.

People never paid attention to places he spoke and what he said. Some people theorize that was why he was so dismissive of environmental issues. Nobody would be around so it didn't matter.
That's one reason I was always upset about the Middle East. I think he intervened there for religious reasons. I don't discount other reasons, but I believe it played a part. I also wondered until the minute he was out of office if he would take the football and start the whole mess.

Of course, in fairness, not all Evangelicals believe this craziness.

But certainly people like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and the kind of fundamentalist-Protestant churches they represent - believing that we are approaching the end of time and that the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem must be destroyed so that "The Third Temple" must be rebuilt and Jesus can return is as basic a Christian teaching as believing in the virgin birth of the Christ. Of course along with this would be the belief that the battle between the military forces of God represented by America and Israel and the forces of Satan represented by the Arab and Islamic world and perhaps Russia would be part of this belief system and considered an absolutely basic Christian teaching. Although this belief would forbid them from accepting any negotiated peace between these antagonist and would consider any such peace agreement satanic in origin - they would also believe that all Jews must then accept Jesus Christ as their Savior or face certain destruction.

The vast majority of the former President Bush's fundamentalist-Protestant supporters would most definitely hold these beliefs to be essential Christian doctrine.

However, Bush spoke regularly to a lot of evangelical leaders who did believe. People can believe what they want. I have a problem with the head of government taking the whole world along on his apocalyptic ride.
:hi:

the half that are Roman Catholic plus all the rest who aren't end-timers -- don't subscribe to it.

Christians. To most of this type of fundamentalist, being a mainstream Anglican, Roman Catholic or even most Methodist would be as ungodly as being a Unitarian or perhaps even a Muslim.

"They are not real Christians because they have not been born again."

I remember my newly "reborn" sister telling my mom and step dad (a former Catholic priest who got his dispensation from the church by Pope John Paul I) that they weren't Christian. Talk about painful!!

consider Catholics to be Christians at all. Not only that but these nuts act as if Tim Lahaye's End Times books are supplements to the bible. This a very dangerous ideology. No one that believes this nonsense should hold public office. JMHO.

I was raised Catholic. One of my relatives is even a priest. So I pretty much understand the church. As unrealistic as the Catholic position is on birth control they are not even in the same league with the fundamentalist nuts.

It is important to understand what these people have in mind, and you have concisely captured it.

Jimmy Carter is an Evangelical and he obviously does not hold to this outrageous interpretation. I'm sure Rick Warren does not embraces this interpretation given that he has met with President Assad of Syria on a trip to promote Middle East peace. Rev. Warren may hold to some other archaic fundamentalist belief, but on this issue he holds a more reasonable interpretation.

The majority of the Christian Peacemakers Team who send lots of volunteers under extremely dangerous conditions into Iraq and into the Occupied Palestinian Territories to protect the civilians against abuse are Mennonites who are very, very conservative Evangelicals who embrace one of the most literalistic interpretations of the Bible of any Christian sect in the world.

Still, it is more than fair to say that in every village, town and city in America the majority of hardliner so-called, "Bible Believing Christians," including the majority of televangelist do very much embrace this extreme dogma. That would definitely be a fair statement.

Or as I like to call them, "The Deceived".

I always thought Bush used the religious stuff as a prop to pander to evangelicals, I didn't realize he was in this deep with it all.

:wow:

Bush, Mideast Wars and End-Time Prophecy
http://www.truthout.org/article/jp-briggs-ii-phd-and-thomas-d-williams-bush-mideast-wars-and-end-time-prophecy

Right after 9/11 I remember seeing Bush on TV calling our actions against terrorism a "crusade". That terminology was disturbing and should have been my first clue what he was all about.

Thanks again for that article, I'm going to pass it on to some friends who will also find it interesting.

and we have ourselves a fanatical group of people leading one of the most powerful countries in the world!!

recognized the U.S.A. as a dangerous loose cannon with W as president. Our media corrected W's image to make it suitable for public consumption.

http://talk2action.org

They went into detail about the movement behind Sarah Palin's preacher and their openly stated plan to infiltrate the government. Read there, esp. dogemperor's posts or google Joel's Army

Theocratic Sect Prays for Real Armageddon

SPLCenter.org: 'Arming' for Armageddon
>

also good Right Wing Watch http://www.rightwingwatch.org/

This is by far the best article I've read about this subject, and I've read a lot. If you suffer from insomnia, this is not going to help one iota.
I truly believe these are some of the most dangerous people on earth. What a toxic stew, end-timers and neocons. The scary part is that they are so well organized. They have their own army (Blackwater), have co-opted the US military, infiltrated Congress, have their own propaganda machines, schools, funding,etc. We ridicule and/or ignore them at our own peril.

It was out there, but nobody was paying attention. W was his father's link to the evangelicals. I'm not sure how deeply he was into all that crap before, but once he met those loons all bets were off. They offered his kind of world. Right/wrong, evil/good etc.
Very few people looked very hard at this part of Bush before the first election. That's what gave me a migraine. I had some people to talk to, but nobody was listening. I only found DU recently, but even this group was not together before 2000.
The Middle East was always a place I never thought we should be in with our soldiers. There are too many groups with too many agendas and they all hold grudges. They hold grudges for brazillions of years. Then Bush uses 9/11 as his opening to march right in, and it's been hell ever since. There are so many people with their own agendas: Oil, evangelicals, neocons, Israel, all the Arab states (and they don't have the same agendas), Iran, etc. etc.
I have permanent agita.

They are dangerous, subversive, and more of a threat to this country than any "terrorist" imaginable.

I've read and saved many articles: here are some you might find interesting:

http://www.theocracywatch.org/secret_theocrats.html

http://www.theocracywatch.org/

http://www.talk2action.org/search

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3958654

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2450 (I find this one particularly troubling.)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10167

If someone is skeptical and decides to believe only 25% of what is known, it's still scarey as hell.
Grover Norquist is gonna find himself in the same bathtub as the government if the Talamerica get their way.

I live in a character City. I gotta move!

We ignore them at our peril. They still have almost complete control of the media including C-Span and NPR. We are still in a very perilous situation. A close looks shows you even with majorities in congress and the presidency that The Democratic Party is not fully in control and act in fear at every turn.

Ridicule loudly and often. It helps wake people up.

First 10 pages print blank. I've tried various ways...copy to Word etc. nothing works. Ideas?

PB

Using imaginary sky people to justify sending a nation to war under false pretenses is madness.

guess you'll have to cut & paste or hand type it.
http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/expose-the-christian-mafia-parts-1-2

He told that to an Amish group early on in I believe Pennsylvania. That followed his "conversion" fantasy involving Billy Graham which Billy Graham finally corrected in an interview with MSNBC.

We live in a country of fantatics and misfits all of whom were looking for another Hitler.

The world cries out for a Nuremberg. Obama tells the world to move on while we still occupy Poland.

Of course, this was the Warrior God so many worship . . .

who told Bush to invade Afghanistan and then later -- two chats! --

told W to attack Iraq--!!!

The most dishonest of men use "god" for their own purposes . . .

Yet so few, gaging by their actions/inactions, seem to notice or care. That's the scary aspect of this. For if enough were aware, and not part of the broader delusion, we could stop the madness of The Few big. Instead, the populace here enables and ensures the unreality, and its nefarious consequences.

about our controlling and sucking every drop of oil wealth out of Iraq and making sure Big American Oil got "their share" and Halliburton and other well-connected crony corporations got all the sweet, no-bid, unsupervised infrastructure contracts? I don't dispute for a minute Bush's religious fervor/fanaticism (which horrifies me) but on another level, and despite real or what often appeared like chaos on the ground, they went about raping Iraq very methodically and with what looks to all the world like a well-organized, efficient business plan.

A Zoo?

Take the kiddies there to see the last of the Erased People?

What would Jews say about erasing people?

Sick fuckers and their invisible skypeople..

a foreign leader makes it all the crazier.

The article also says


Of course "reportedly said" is pretty vague but even reading that is sickening.

It's funny how they call Israel/Jewish people God's people yet believe they are going to hel unless they accept Jesus as their savior.

the phrase "reportedly said" unless he heard it himself, but it was reported in several sources.

unfortunately there is only a single source and the title of the book, which this author neglects to inform, is "If you repeat, I will deny". And yet the author of this article is saying that the source is confirming the story. That seems to be not true and the fact that the Counterpunch commentator didn't include the book's title would seem to indicate that he was trying to hide something.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa


George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month.

Mr Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervour when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egpytian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

he knew what was planned. :scared:

A lot of them send money to the groups building settlements. They do this to hurry the Apocalypse. Israel is fine with this up to a point. I believe that point is reached when they realize that in the endtimes Jewish people either convert or roast. I'm not sure they care right now because the backing of the endtimers serves their political purposes.

Max Blumenthal takes us on a shocking and at times bizarre tour of right-wing Pastor John Hagee's annual Washington-Israel Summit, blowing the cover off the Christian Zionist movement in the process. Starring Joe Lieberman, Tom DeLay, Pastor John Hagee, Ambassador Dore Gold and a host of rapture-ready evangelicals praying for Armaggedon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig


This is one of the main things that worried me most about a possible Palin presidency during the election, as I described http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=278196&mesg_id=278498
">here a couple of months ago...

because he was trying to "prevent the Apocalypse." In his sick mind, he was trying to assist God in bringing about the Apocalypse.

No doubt it is where the likes of Tom DeLay and many of his fundamentalist supporters are coming from. Although, I do not know if one can credit Bush for thinking through the implications of his ideas or the consequences of his actions. I doubt that he has any more theological depth than he has philosophic depth.

Saying that got me banned from freeperville, it was only my second post. Israelis should know what a second coming of Jebus means; another Inquisition on their land.

Leave me out of it. And everyone else, too.

and a length of garden hose?

From the OP


(snip)

...Skull & Bones' initiates are assigned or take on nicknames. And what was George Bush Senior's nickname? "Magog".

(end snip)

but who's to say except his fellow cult members?

This latest news about Bushie Jr. is surprising. I had assumed his end-times fundamentalism was as phony as his accent, but apparently it was real enough for the higher-ups to utilitize.

Well that makes sense. If his hadn't broken at an inopportune moment, then "W" wouldn't be here. What a different world this would be!!

when Poppy was a young Congressman and had an interest in population issues. I had confused the two nicknames. Oh, those wacky Bushes and their clever nicknames!

Commander AWOL Bush's nickname at the elite eastern Yale -- after his years's in an elite prep school -- was Magog. You never know with Republicon and their penchant for darkside Occultism...

From Wikipedia: "the names Gog and Magog occur widely in mythology and folklore...And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

"They are evil nonbelievers" "We should nuke them"

those other leaders will write, and think of all the fucking wacked-out shit that Idiot George said to them and that they will document...

Finally, folks will REALLY get to see how batshit-crazy he is.

How the hell didn't he just fall to the floor in a fit of laughter? wtf!

Next up... Dr. Seuss.

("Oh, The Places We'll Go" is clearly an imperialistic manifesto. And the Whos down in Who-Ville were seen purchasing yellow cake from Niger.)

how many times did a group of arrogant a**holes think it was the end times? Approximately one thousand years ago they thought it was the end times. These zealots react and create from their own big fat egos. And we, the populace of the world suffer from their ignorance, arrogance and just plain sociopathic cruelty!!!!

I'm still waiting for the rapture, cause if there's going to be one let it happen now so we can get on with our lives and let the creator deal with the sick, murdering fekks!!!

Ya know, looking at the Bible--it seems man has used God as a scapegoat for every sociopathic, bloody demented act they've done. "God told Joshua to kill every man, woman, child and animal"--yeah right. "God told me to throw my children off the building." "God told me to kill all of those nonbelievers (that don't believe the way I do)." And, on and on it goes. Yeah, kind a have to feel sympathy for the sky being having so much genocide and thieving done in his/her name.

God told me to type that :rofl:

His "major" was being the third generation dumbass offspring of Skull & Bones members.

We already know how Rummy was fond of printing out-of-context biblical bits on DOD reports to glorify war. Junior wants to be revered as a heroic leader more than anything, and these evil people used that. They stole the presidency (twice) because they knew he would be a useful puppet for their goals.

"Heh heh gots some plans for 'em too"

Yet more conclusive proof.

death, and inhumanity, but me thinks nary a single solitary true-believer will put any credence in this story nor give a whit as to junior's reason/rationale for unleashing perpetual pre-emptive war. :P

Even I did not believe he was that much of an idiot.

Because after that, God wipes the slate clean and starts over anyway, right?

Holy crap, another lunatic that was "selected" as a puppet leader, who theoretically could have nuked the world in some deluded religious fever. How close did we come to actually one of his insane fantasies?

PLEASE KICK AND RECOMMEND!!

now we're beginning to see how fucking crazy he was as well.

EVANGELICALS SUBVERTING MILITARY
<snip>
As it turns out, that has indeed been the business of Christian conservatives in the U.S. armed services since 9/11. In word and deed, evangelicals in recent years have aggressively boosted their visibility and influence within the American military.

An early warning came in 2003 in the guise of Lt. General William Boykin.
Boykin, who later became a deputy under secretary of defense, claimed during speeches to prayer groups and breakfasts that militant Islamists sought to destroy America ''because we're a Christian nation.'' General Boykin also explained to evangelical audiences that Muslims worship an ''idol'' and not ''a real God.'' While President Bush expressed his disagreement (noting Boykin "''didn't reflect my opinion" and "it just doesn't reflect what the government thinks"), Boykin remained on the job.

The U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs has been a hotbed of evangelical activism - and controversy. While cadets in 2004 distributed leaflets at dinner place settings for a screening of "The Passion of the Christ, football coach Fisher DeBerry displayed a sign in the team's locker room proclaiming, "I am a Christian first and last. I am a member of Team Jesus Christ." In May, 2005, Lutheran minister and Captain MeLinda Morton was removed from her post after warning evangelical Christians were trying to "subvert the system" in trying to win converts among cadets at the Academy. A June 2005 study at USAFA described other incidents of religious intolerance, insensitivity and inappropriate proselytizing, and concluded:

"Additionally, some faculty members and coaches consider it their duty to profess their faith and discuss this issue in their classrooms in furtherance of developing cadets' spirituality."
http://prorev.com/2009/05/evangelicals-subverting-military.html

Now Google Lt. General William Boykin. All better now????????????

one would find in third-world dictatorships.

It is even scarier given the apocalyptic nature of their ideology in the hands of people that handle the world's largest nuclear arsenal.

Could it be that Cheney and the rest of the Project for a New American Century thugs saw the potential in Dubya as the perfect stooge?

A guy who was not the favorite son wanting to prove to his daddy his worth and had the NAME of a former President.

A guy who failed at every venture he ever got into and now was being offered the biggest prize in the country, (a success at that would wipe out all past blunders)and had the ego to actually believe they wanted him for his political smarts.

A guy who partied away his youth and skipped out on National Guard duties, so he probably had some latent guilt on serving country to milk.

And finally a guy who was so desperate for answers (besides himself) as to why his life was so fucked up that he fell into the welcoming open arms of the Evangelical Fundamentalist Christian cult. Probably the most gullible, and easily led sect short of the Taliban. Once he was firmly walking down that golden highway, eyes turned up in blissful rapture, Dick, Karl, Wolfowitz, Pearl and the rest knew they had their man. All they had to do is nurture that and facilitate all these weekly meetings with America's Fundy cult leaders (including Ted Haggart) and keep away any of those trashy secular news papers, and he would do whatever they wanted,.... er, I mean whatever God wanted. They had him convinced that he was God's chosen vessel to trigger the Apocalypse and bring down Jesus for His second coming. What a rush! Someone so convinced could be made to do anything that furthered that endgame, including mass murdering civilians, and dismiss it as God's will.

as a tool to trick him into believing that IRAQ was a holy war. Now, sure, you can claim that Sep 11 was that, but Iraq, puh-lease, so I agree with you, and long have said that Dumbya was letting himself be used by DICK and he didn't even get his hair pulled!

Iraq certainly wasn't something God would have any Christian take part of... they're shameful for doing this - and most of them don't care one bit.

Shrub was a total stooge, total "front man". Why was he conveniently "out of the way" yet "in harm's way" on 9-11? Why was the POTUS "exposed to harm" for 4+ hours that day? The "powers that be" knew he wasn't anywhere near the target area(s). He was clearly "out of the loop" that day - and most days for that matter.

These people swore up and down that George was the second coming....Vote for him, he'll save America...just another republican con these people are so easily led.

Because the republicans & Bush handlers made it appear that way, simply because these idiot bible clown were told George W was "born again"...and that's ALL it took for these goof balls to start prasing & believing....talk about pawns!

These Christian fools will believe anything republicans tell them!

What do these same stupid, gullible, idiot believers believe today?

him in the John the Baptist role. He was just the opening act. The next clown or clownette will be THE ONE. I'd say Palin, but she is a she. I'm not sure if they will warp themselves enough for that, but they probably can. She is perfect in the role with her beliefs. I'm not sure who else would fit.

President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

And "now again", Mr Bush is quoted as telling the two, "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."

Mr Abbas remembers how the US President told him he had a "moral and religious obligation" to act. The White House has refused to comment on what it terms a private conversation. But the BBC account is anything but implausible, given how throughout his presidency Mr Bush, a born-again Christian, has never hidden the importance of his faith.

Link: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-509925.html

and heavily medicated? Spewing this sort of paranoid schizophrenic bullshit in any other context that "Gawd" talk is grounds for involuntary institutionalization. "Religion" is clearly the only socially approved form of complete fucking insanity,

pentecostal or hard core endtime churches. The stuff he is saying is tame compared to what you can hear there. Bush is a beginner.

there are churches that teach these beliefs and as you say many are much more extreme than what Bush probably believed and probably still believes.

Again in fairness, there are lots of Evangelicals who do not buy into this craziness one bit. But certainly among hardliner fundamentalist - these beliefs would be completely mainstream and held to be essential Christian doctrine.

People need to know the truth of these whacko religious nuts and the path their mentality takes us down.

I didn't think anything that idiot did could surprise me.

... were to visit Colorado Springs and their megachurch, and to rub elbows with Rick Warren at Saddleback Church in California. And he hasn't ended, but has expanded, "faith-based" programs.

Just because Obama is apparently more intelligent doesn't mean that he isn't strongly motivated by religious leanings.

An informative read on this subject is "The Family," by Jeff Sharlet.

Are you saying that Obama is associated with this group? I'm well aware of Hillary's connections with it, but hadn't heard anything about Obama. If you have info on this or would care to comment I'd like to know.

... and probably a majority of Congress is involved with. I don't know to what extent Obama *may* be involved with this group. I have simply been concerned about his closeness to the religious fundamentalists, which element has been very much involved in our state affairs over the last eight years (and probably long before, too, but just not as blatantlyl).

Have you read the book? In addition, Bill Moyers has written about the infiltration of radical "Christian" forces into our government. I don't see Obama distancing himself form these elements.

Who could object to a *prayer breakfast*? It sounds so uplifting. There are international tentacles involved with that event, according to several sources writing on this subject. And no, I'm not prepared to offer those sources. Jeff Sharet's book is a good starting point.

is probably what Chirac was thinking.

Not because of "Gawd" or SkyBeard or any other misplaced parental angst that turned into an invisible friend.

But that Bush didn't kill us all.

:thumbsup:

that's all . . .

But that propaganda is responsible for the world's darkest periods --
The Crusades, the women's holocaust, the Jewish holocaust in Germany,
persecution of homosexuals, racism, concepts of slavery -- and genocide.

It's about the inequality applied to us all by the self-declared superiority
of patriarchy.

oh, the Dems are still wetting their pants and don't know what to do. How much has to be brought into the light of day before we put the people responsible for all this bullshit where they belong?

Google "Palin, Esther, Bible" to see what I'm talking about here. This was the reason you saw her in white for many of her public (Nazicon) appearances.

Don't they know that according to their prophecies it already happened almost a 1000 years ago?

Also, this is not even remotely shocking to those of us who follow Dominionist politics in the RR. The only shocking thing is that Bush was so goddamn stupid he actually said it aloud to an actual world leader.

...maybe not so shocking, anyway.

to his religion ... seriously., how can Bush invoke his religion to wage a battle against other religions. Isn't that what the Taliban & AQ does? What is the difference between Bush & OBL. In this context, none.

the perfect marionette that anyone could hope for. Cheerleader, reformed substance abuse, drop out, born again, not well educated, coarse.

What always needs to be kept in mind is this - Dick and Don had bosses - we don't know how it all works, but it is societies, organizations, foundations picking and choosing. They picked the perfect character for the role. He said and did just enough to keep up the pretense.

Keep studing all the bosses behind the curtain. Get them out front with a spotlight. The media has made a ;promise to keep them hidden. They are powerful order givers. They trusted the teams who approved Bush. Studyhing Bush should be a pastime compared to studying the societies and secret societies who are all the 'Presidente'.

I have a suggestion for getting back on our feet - get rid of the eye, pyramid on our money. Find out just how much gold we own. Trace the money and the orders.

Two old guys and a cheerleader did not do this all on their own. Let's talk about who owns whom and how they communicate.

has been out for 2 months and no one has cited it.

googling ten pages in the only reference for this Jean Claude Maurice (apparently there is a musician by the same name) is this one book, which is quoted by a lot of people.

Apparently the title of the book is, Si vous le répétez, je démentirai (If you repeat it, I will deny)

The title makes you wonder about the sourcing and would appear to make the assertion that Chirac is confirming it, at least questionable.


Maurice's last known employement was 2003 when he was the editor -in-chief of the newspaper Le Journal du Dimanche between 1999 and 2003.

Thomas Romer is a real Bible Scholar, it is odd that nobody has approached him to confirm or deny whether or not he was approached on this explosive story. That would seem to be a simple way to confirm the story.

I think it is fair to say that the American "liberal media" is very hesitant to publish information damagingly critical of religious beliefs that are supported by the majority (but not all) of fundamentalist-Protestant-Evangelicals. That opens them to the accusation that they are attacking or even persecuting religious belief. In this case a religious belief that would be considered mainstream and even essential Christian doctrine according to the vast majority (again I repeat not all)of fundamentalist-Christian-Evangelicals who comprise a major portion of America's religious and church-going public.

1) It was first reported on March 6 in The Palestinian Chronicle and hasn't received any press except for now igniting a storm on the web. The Palestinian reporter gave it a very conditional reading,




2) Hamilton asserts that Chirac confirms the report



and yet the English translation of the book title is "If you repeat it, I will deny" , making it seem that sensational claims in the book would not be backed up by their sources. It is even more questionable when Hamilton doesn't include the title in his article.

3) The most suspicious point, IMHO, is that there are no sources in DC for this. These allegations are not normal Protestant-Evangelical, or even fundamentalist fare, it is wacko-ville and I find it hard to believe that some secular or mainstream Protestant in the White House didn't leak that out if they heard it. Former Press Secretary McClellan, for example, has been very honest and forthright about the nonsense he heard and nothing he said comes close to this kind of insanity.


4) Finally the biblical authority who was quoted back in September 9th 2007 about a phone call in 2003 Thomas Römer hasn't been queried on the subject (although even if he can confirm the phone call it doesn't mean that the stated reasons for it are as the article describes.

I agree with the Palestian commentator that it would be interesting "if independently verified".

It would NOT be fair to say most Evangelical hold this view. It would NOT be fair to say all Fundamentalist-Evangelicals hold this view. But it would be entirely fair to say that the overwhelming majority of Fundamentalist-Evangelicals do indeed hold this view and views far more extreme. Not necessarily the ordinary church goer who may or may not pay close attention to the ideas coming from the pulpit. But for what is preached from the pulpit, this would be standard fare and completely mainstream belief and frankly beliefs much stronger such as the belief that the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem must be destroyed so that the Temple of Solomon must be rebuilt to prepare for the second coming of Christ and the belief that of a coming battle between the military forces of God represented by America and Israel and the military forces of Satan represented by the Arab and Islamic world and perhaps the Soviet Union. These are not beliefs held by an extremist fringe. These are beliefs wholeheartedly embraced by the vast, overwhelming majority or fundamentalist-Evangelical Protestant churches. These are beliefs preached across pulpits in every town, village and neighborhood in America.

Still I feel in all fairness to point out that not all Evangelicals embrace this belief. Jimmy Carter is an Evangelical and he obviously does not hold to this outrageous interpretation. I'm sure Rick Warren does not embraces this interpretation given that he has met with President Assad of Syria on a trip to promote Middle East peace. Rev. Warren may hold to some other archaic fundamentalist belief, but on this issue he holds a more reasonable interpretation.

The majority of the Christian Peacemakers Team who send lots of volunteers under extremely dangerous conditions into Iraq and into the Occupied Palestinian Territories to protect the civilians against abuse are Mennonites who are very, very conservative Evangelicals who embrace one of the most literalistic interpretations of the Bible of any Christian sect in the world.

Still, it is more than fair to say that in every village, town and city in America the majority of hardliner so-called, "Bible Believing Christians," including the majority of televangelist do very much embrace this extreme dogma. That would definitely be a fair statement.
In their minds, there is nothing whatsoever extreme about this belief. In the vast majority of religious Fundamentalist-Evangelical Protestant churches this is mainstream Christianity and even essential Christian doctrine.

As far as George W. Bush's personal beliefs, this would be consistent with what Bob Woodward reported that when asked by Mr. Woodward if George W. had asked his father's advice about war with Iraq, he replied, "I have a higher father" that he has spoken to. Mr. Bush made it absolutely clear to Mr. Woodward that he considered himself to be on a divine mission regarding his policies in the Middle East. All of these reports would be consistent with the knowledge that the Bush White House official met numerous times with fundamentalist leaders to assure them that they are staying within "Biblical teachings" regarding their Middle East policy. These reports would also be consistent with the kind of religious company George W. Bush kept both before and after assuming the Presidency.

sects in the US but there are a lot of fundamentalists who hold extreme views in their religious point of view but do not buy into the hairbrained interpretations of the book of Revelations.

More to the point is that your descriptions of Bush's 'God talk' are fairly well documented and basically follow the kind of blather that you might hear from a follower of Billy Graham. There is nothing in the extensive interviews and leaks about Bush's personal religious beliefs that show that he was a student of, or paid much interest in wild revelation interpretations of the bible.

The beliefs cited as having expressed to Chirac (which apparently Chirac told the author he would deny if quoted) are not all consistent with in discussion with Woodward unless you have citations that are on point.

The other, more serious problems with the source, which even the Palestinian Chronicle alluded to almost 3 months ago, remain.

Best damm reason to use common sense to get rid of all those old wives tales. The Mayans believed in multiple Gods; The god of Rain Chac the God of War, Corn, Fertility, Wind, Sun, Moon etc etc all based on a lack of knowledge just like the Catholic church silenced Galileo for questioning that the earth was not the center of the universe! We are a modern society can we not just get educated and come to the realization there is no such thing as GOD just people that use him to explain that which they do not understand! Then you get charismatic persons that get people to believe they are the new savior Jim Jones, David Koresh! Therw maybe a over all spirit out there but a benevolent god overlooking our every move forget it he would have came back and kicked the shit out of us for destroying this precious world he build in six days! Religon is nothing more than a form of controlling the masses the uneducated ones for sure!

about Gog and Magog, and revelation for fuck's sake! I was just getting over the embarrassment that was his presidency. Someone please make him STOP talking!

I can just hear the peals of laughter in marbled halls...

Like we doubted that all along.


Oil was just the prize offered up to cronies for full unquestioned support.

Commander in Chief? I think we should blame the filthy five on the SCOTUS instead of "GAWD"

Bush-level stupid, apparently.

...I don't have the Bible in front of me so I'm paraphrasing, but it says something about in the end times in the final battle Satan will emerge in the land that is currently Iraq and that he must be defeated by Jesus for all of us to have eternal salvation.

My theory...since 2003, is that George W. actually thinks he IS Jesus fighting the final battle against Saddam who he thinks is Satan, based on what the Bible says.