I can't do it ...

I can't pretend to "honor" our troops today. I am heartbroken and angry and disgusted at humanity...that's what today is for me.

Funny, I never lost a family member to war, but I saw the devastating efects of the severly damaged psyche of my cousin...who almost became a news story like the ones we are so immune to today: "veteran gets drunk and kills wife, baby daughter & self"

I have always been a pacifist, even to the point of standing in between the bully and the small kid and getting my OWN ass kicked when I was in the 3rd grade... Now, there have been times of rage, but that's different from war as a whole. Most rage (at least in my knowledge & experience) comes from a place of defense...that fight of flight hormone.
War is the forced perpetuation of that on a mass scale...which then changes the way entire nations and cultures identify themselves for generations. Look at the current relations with Cuba...aren't we still punishing them for the Bay of Pigs? Doesn't the NKorean propaganda color us as an industrial demon...are they ALL wrong?
(maybe if Bush HAD gone to Vietnam, this wouldn't have happened...he would have been effected by it and perhaps more likely to stand up to his daddy and the Industrial War machinists who puppetteered him towards the mess...who knows?)

There is no honor in it, it is glorified murder and the worst of man's baser instincts are revealed in the atrocities performed.
The only thing that reveals we are higher animals is that we create such a cloud of bullshit to convince ourselves it is appropriate.

That's what Memorial Day has come to mean to me.
I can deal with the day off, I have to be home with my children when the school's closed for this.
But you won't get me saying anything nice, about OUR troops or ANY of it...on any continent.
I can't bring myself to honor the behavior that will bring thousands home to abuse their own families because they cannot turn off the animal response in their minds...

My stomach is turning and the tears are real...War holds NO honor, anytime or place. There is NO justification for what has been done in "our" name...whether it be our extermination of the Native peoples in THIS land, the exploitation of resources in Vietnam and the South Pacific, or Iraq & Afganistan....

sO.....no, no BBQ at MY house, not a word about the reason for the day....we'l just take a walk by the river and I will send along a prayer that someday, somehow, we can hope to evolve

...and that the people being hurt at THIS VERY moment in MY name - can forgive me for not doing more to stop it.

If you don't like the holiday, ignore it.

Nothing that the U.S. military is doing abroad at the moment is very inspiring, or even remotely honorable, IMO. I totally understand how you feel.

I spit at the men who started the war.

I also acknowledge there are times and people in this world that cannot be reasoned or negotiated with and sometimes they get enough power that to protect our own liberty our only choice is to destroy the threat.

this really is sophmoric and hackneyed to a painful degree. and no, this is not true:

Most rage (at least in my knowledge & experience) comes from a place of defense...that fight of flight hormone.

excuse my idealistic view of peace and humanity...
and one can only speak from personal experience, so maybe I have yet to understand rage by YOUR definition, whatever that is.

if yoiu think i am so wrong, then you are welcome to that - and I did include the disclaimer that I could only speak from my own knowledge... you may see it as naieve, whatever, it's okay with me that I DON'T have an intimate understanding of those felings and thoughts and hormones and what ever other brainwashing or drugging goes into creating soldiers.

And you have no understanding that using poor spelling is NOT, repeat, NOT an indicator or intelligence.

And I'm an English professor who writes "cliche" or "hackneyed" about ten times an hour in every student paper reading session.

I think the poster is lamenting a day that cannot be observed because of their beliefs.

If you don't care for the sentiment, just move on to another thread. Insulting someone for their feelings or beliefs really isn't necessary.


Cher

on Conan O'brien? That's what you remind me of Cali. Every time you disagree with someone, out come the ad hom attacks. Like a broken record, yet mildly amusing.

just insulting and it always gets away with it.

using what they have at their disposal

not hiding behind a persona with a lot of make-up on

struggling to clarify something in themselves

seeking contact

making an effort in an ongoing process that will lead elsewhere/elsehow eventually

"Sophomoric" would be an aspiration.

Bitter much?

I hope I can be forgiven.

You don't have to honor the dunderheaded politicians who are responsible for the current mess we're in.

The statement "you won't get me saying anything nice, about OUR troops or any of it...on any continent" gives ammunition to the Freepers and RW knuckleheads who think all of us at DU hate the troops and hate America.

I honor this day and thank my Dad and uncles who fought in WWII.

War is the device of a few to get control of something they covet by convincing the youth that they're being patriotic. My question is what is patriotic about killing Iraqis who never lifted a finger against us? Yet people still debate it as if it's a just war.

There are some very good and decent men and women in the military. They fought against tyranny, and sadly, for it, because the American people did not speak out in large enough numbers to stop it. Most of them don't join to kill, they just want to make a living, to get a step up from the lot they were born into, or get the money they would not otherwise have for college. The warmongers need an underclass they can exploit so they can fight their wars for profit and stuff their pockets with blood money. It's disgusting that there are human beings so evil on this planet, and that they are allowed to do as they will, without too much resistance, or punishment for their crimes. I do understand where you're coming from. War is an ugly thing and it's victims are countless.

intentionally cultivate those "savage in-equalities" beyond that which is "unavoidable" MUST not be bowed to.

They are functionally the same.

Why don't you say that to his face?

Maybe the President would be named Shickelgruber, but we wouldn't have had to kill anyone.

i can seperate, departmentalize, individualize.

i know too many that are a part of the whole, and their loss, and their reason, and who they are to not

honor them.

and

i am a pacifist. and i walk my journey understanding all is not me.

:thumbsup:

IMO, no one has died "defending" the US since WWII. That doesnt mean that I dont respect the ones who lost their lives after being drafted. They had little choice(this of course is debatable). But volunteers are a different story.

You can't honor the truly Honorable by saying in effect "Anything/Everyone Military is Honorable."

This day is not about honoring blind ignorant obedience. It is about honoring those who FREELY choose to do something very difficult and dangerous.

Ignorance IS Slavery. An inability, or un-willingness, to compete in our job market and Economic necessity ARE Slavery. Those who are un-informed or lied to, or just earning a paycheck do not freely choose anything. Propaganda in our system is so ALL PERVASIVE that Freedom is rather unlikely. Where I feel profound sadness and pity for the Ignorant and Oppressed and profound anger at those who oppress them by means of lies, intentional ignorance, and propaganda, my Honor is reserved for those few who (even if i disagree with them) FREELY chose to do what they did.

I will not celebrate the power of the state to create Horror and call it "Beauty" and I will not celebrate blind ignorant obedience to that power. I will NOT celeberate Slavery.

:applause:


thank you!

perhaps we are more at war within than I knew.
I meant no offense, just wanted to lament on the death over centuries, especially those comitted in our Nation's best interest.

I believe ALL war is destructive and horific...and taht there is no justification.
I am sorry for the troops that chose to be involved and were killed as a result. I am sorry for the Industrial Military Complex who has fashioned such a world that recruits those with no place better to go, except jail or the street.
No amount of scholarship can make what they have been subjected to even remotely okay...it is horrific, the orders from on high, the actual reality of what happens on the ground...it is ALL insane and perverted and makes me ill to think of it...
I am sorry for those who died in wars we have yet to justify or "win"
I am sory for those who died in the "good" wars
I am sorry for those who came back from Vietnam to such anger..it was misdirected.
I am sorry for those who are still suffering

and the soldiers, well some did actually sign up to "go kill ragheads", and some really did want to wreak havoc...some didn't know they had it in them until they got there...and some have yet to face what they have had to endure, and some have yet to end up on drugs for life ...or comitting suicide because of that horror

But my prayers for Peace will continue,
and I will also thank those who honor soldiers without hesitation, since I can't seem to do it.

and idealistic. They signed up to protect us. It is not their fault they were lied, tricked and trapped into fighting dirty, illegal wars to benefit the so-called "elite."

And now that the economy is in shambles, many are enlisting because it's the only job out there.

Hate the wars and the war-mongers, but not the young warriors.

however I will always honor those who sacrifice for the rest of us. They stand up and say "I'll go" so the rest of us do not have to.

The answer to the question of "What if they had a war and nobody came?" is answered by example of the civil war of Sierra Leone. Basically, if no one comes to fight, they will force you by pain of death to do so. If you refuse to fight, they will kill you in front of your children and force them to fight. So yes, I'll honor the men and women who serve and those who die today for their bravery and self-sacrifice.

I realize that you are overcome by emotion of the suffering and fallout of violence. Not all service people returning from war abuse their families. My uncle served two tours in Vietnam and he was the most laid back man after the war, almost nothing made him angry. I guess he figured it could be much much worse. I'm sorry for your cousin's troubles.

Namaste

Hitler had to be stopped, and there was only one way to stop him. Now, I also honor those who joined the military (or were drafted), and who fought and died in conflicts that we had no business fighting---Vietnam, Iraq, etc. They were given orders by their commander-in-chief and did their jobs as our representatives. I honor their sacrifice and their service, even though I disagreed with the cause.

What I don't honor on Memorial Day are the Presidents and Congresses that lied us into war, i.e. Lyndon B. Johnson, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, et al.

"Hitler had to be stopped, and there was only one way to stop him."

...even that statement, which most of us would accept uncritically, is debatable.

Hitler was a fanatic who rose to power thanks to generous financial assistance from industrialists both in Germany and in the United States. It's possible that if he didn't have the aid from companies like Thyssen, I. G. Farben, Krupp, I.B.M. (via Hollerith), and the backing of people like Henry Ford and Prescott Bush that Hitler would've wound up just another penniless street corner crackpot. The myth that this sniveling psychopath rose to power solely on his own merits is a cousin to the equally questionable "lone nut" and "bad apple" versions of history.

to dump on the troops for doing what they are ordered to do is way beyond the pale. The more so when you either chose not to go or failed to acknowledge the sacrifice of those who went.

You can blame the civilian administration, the congress, the officer corps of the US, but you should never put the blame on the troops.

Must be nice to live in an Ivory Tower.

I wasn't "dumping on the troops." I was pointing out that rich businessmen are inevitably the ones who create the wars for their own selfish purposes and then send off often well-meaning men and women to do their bidding.

...or on Haliburton and GE's behalf? To defend freedom or to defend oil company profits?

:hug:

fought and died in the service of your country, I would remind you that their sacrifice does honor you and your right to freely express your opinions/feelings. I would also remind you that your freedom isn't free. Those you do not honor are the ones who paid the price for it, so while you may not honor them, you do owe them a debt that you can never repay.

The price of REAL Freedom is not paid "after the fact" reacting to ___________, being FORCED to take an unacceptable course because we're always a day late and a dollar short.

Yes, there ARE instances in which violence is un-avoidable, but not all violence falls in that category. Usually violence is called unavoidable to justify it after-the-fact by those who let it happen.

The price of REAL Freedom is paid BEFORE-the-fact. It gives people options by meeting our responsibilities to one another so that there is as little ignorance of what is going on as possible, so people can't be lied to, so that voters are informed and actively responsible on ALL of the issues, not just the BS hot-button things like abortion and gay-marriage. The price of REAL Freedom is investing our taxes in economic infrastructure that FREES ourselves and future generations from enlisting in Institutionalized Violence, because they can't afford healthcare or don't want to flip-burgers for the rest of their lives. The price of REAL freedom is enforcing anti-Trust laws, against those who finance political campaigns, so hard word and merit is rewarded with continuity in employment, instead of rewarding inhabitants of tax havens for off-shoring our jobs and rewarding people who don't DO anything at all with the biggest dividend checks possible. The price of REAL freedom is protecting domestic industry with better Trade policies, so that those who want to work actually have a chance of engaging in work that is appropriate to their skills and talents, not just serving the OIL-Economy, and not just a paycheck the value of which is determined by private computers, running private processes and owned by private banks. The price of REAL freedom is recognizing that some "values" are just sacred cows that serve false gods. The price of REAL freedom is recognizing that the impulse to Violence, even when dressed in the trappings of "patriotism" is NOT necessarily sacred.

No matter how you dress it up, Slavery ONLY begets more Slavery. Do NOT kill others or do violence in my name, especially in service to FALSE "freedoms".

and drinking beer today?

and honor those who did fight and those who served/serve in peace.

Pissing on a tradition of paying homage to those who served will not make war go away. It does make the pisser look unrealistic & naive at best and sanctimonious, cruel, and narrow-minded for the most part.

Sorry, but your tantrum post will not stop war. Empathy is a good place to start for that endeavor. If I give you a buck, perhaps you can buy some.

Don't bash the soldiers when it's the politicians that screwed up.

Sometimes military actions are righteous and sometimes not.

And I honor your right to not do so or do it in your own manner.

I certainly honor the soldiers who have always done what their nation calls them to do. I'm ashamed of much of what the nation and those in charge have considered worthy of soldiers lives. It's hard to believe we still have people dying in a land that's absolutely no threat to us. I'm also ashamed of all the flag waving, backyard grilling "Americans" who just don't get the gravity involved in what our troops are doing.