Anyone think medical Doctors make too much money?

I know they go to school for a long time and it costs a lot, that's not the point. Do you think they make too much for the work they do?

The last Doctor friend I had who made less that was a young guy working at the Emergency Room at WVU's Mecial Center and he was bringing down 100k a year 20 years ago.

six figures is too much for them.

whether they have their own office, etc.

I have a friend who barely makes $50.00/hour after expenses (malpractice insurance, office space, office personnel, medical personnel, supplies...) We've laughed about it because I make almost as much per hour teaching. Of course, she works a lot of hours, and I only work part time. But still. It doesn't really compute to either of us.

I don't think general practitioners or family practitioners are overpaid. Many specialists, however, I believe may be. It's hard to say when they bill high to get the most out of insurance and patient combined.

Some rip off, others get ripped off.

I know they often pay huge malpractice premiums. Another aspect of the medical insurance industry that strikes me as out of control.

We don't make enough to pay them.

Also, not General Practitioners.

After two years of listening to the XM channel ReachMD for doctors, I know they are struggling and not only that but the process of trying to get paid is making them wish they had never gone into medicine in the first place.

They spend too much time fighting with insurance companies.

odd how I find a post I agree with and often it is you.

Between overhead and insurance, and taking what insurance co's pay, many are not able to stay in business and are being bought out by "healthcare corporations", and then don't get paid nearly enough.

They have to keep track of everything and try to bill the insurance companies, who routinely low-ball them with payments of 30-50% of what the doctors bill for... so the doctors have to be sure to keep track of every billable procedure... and they keep raising the prices, and the insurance companies just low-ball them all the more... but then use the billing, which they never pay 100 cents on the dollar for, to justify raising premiums to their customers...
And meanwhile, the doctors have to pay off medical school, and cover malpractice insurance (which I don't think is any more out of hand than any other insurance... but I'm not ready to preach for torte reform)... and they have to handle sweaty dirty humanity.

From where I'm sitting... it's not the doctors who're being paid too much... it's the HMOs collecting too much while delivering too little.

n/t

physicians in the military. ;-)

How much does an army surgeon make?

I don't think you can conflate the two.

That response was clearly based on the level of responsibility and made no mention of cost of education, until you confated the argument by bringing this irrelevent information to this leg of the conversation.

educated in that profession has lot to do with how much one makes.

So, comparing soldiers and cops with a high school diploma and academy or military training, which they pay nothing for, doesn't really work as an argument.

Maybe a better comparison would be comparing the disparity in pay between a doctor who works in a neighborhood clinic as opposed to a podiatrist working on the Upper East Side.

:)

it's not great. i could make more doing some things, but it's quite reasonable. one can easily make 6 figures with a little overtime, and benefits are excellent.

as much as it pains me to say this... i can't complain.

i happen to have a BA , with some grad school, and get a slight incentive for that. for a high school educated officer, it's even better (relatively speaking)

They can only get so many fees for their services in a day and they have to meet their overhead. For instance, the doctor I work for makes a maximum of $200 an hour. It seems like a lot until you look at the outlay. Out of that he has to pay me, rent and other overhead, taxes, offer discounts to needy patients, etc. If his appointment book isn't fully booked, then he's losing money. If the insurance companies or HMOs stiff him, he has to try to collect the fees from the patients, who often can't pay. Health insurance company executives, on the other hand make millions a month with no overhead. While a few of them might be medical professionals, most aren't.

They spend huge amounts on medical school. I think this is one of the aspects of health care that we have to deal with in order to lower costs.

Then, if they have their practices, they spend huge percentages of their earnings on malpractice insurance -- they also get ripped off by insurance companies with fees and such when they file claims.

and a friend of mine who is a GP is barely hanging on to hers. The insurance companies screw us all!

They're paid a lot because there is a shortage.

Supply and demand, like any other trade. The difference is the union (AMA) decides how many new doctors will be trained.

I like the idea of government paying for their tuition if they agree to work in small communities.

Depends on whether they're independent of an HMO deal.

Depends on their practice or specialty.

Depends on their malpractice premiums.

I know of an orthopedic surgeon in northern New Jersey who takes no insurance whatsoever. Tells his patients to pay him up front in full (that's six figures, folks) in cash (suitcase optional) before he schedules their surgery. He's not complaining for patients or money.

It's all payment up front (or on a credit card, as I can't afford to pay it right now), and his office submits the claim to my insurance company for me. As he's out of network (duh!), I get back close to nothing most of the time. It's worth it though, for my quality of life!

Call me a commie.

you are a commie.

Medical malpractice premiums cost an average of $18,400 in 2000.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/43147.php

Average premium for an anesthesiologist in 2007 was $23,481
http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2007/10/average-malpractice-premiums-for.html

and we are by no means wealthy. We have a huge overhead with office mortgage, employees, supplies, and malpractice payments.

One of the reasons it costs sooo much to see a doc is malpractice and frivolous law suits (although i will say not all are frivolous just the majority)

adds to the cost of running a business.

http://makethemaccountable.com/myth/RisingCostOfMedicalMalpracticeInsurance.htm

Center for Justice & Democracy

MYTHBUSTER
THE SEVEN MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT MEDICAL MALPRACTICE

February 10, 2004

1. Insurance industry profits are going through the roof and not a single doctors’ group has demanded any accountability from, or reforms of, the insurance industry for its excessive price-gouging of doctors.

MYTHBUSTER: Insurance industry profits, including those of medical malpractice insurers, are booming

Insurance Companies Raking in Huge Profits

2. It has been proven repeatedly that “caps” and other “tort reforms” do not work. States that have enacted so-called “tort reform” have only seen their insurance rates continue to shoot up after passing severe liability limits. In fact, doctors from at least three of the nine states represented at the national news conference scheduled for February 10 - Ohio, Missouri and Texas - and two out of seven states being targeted for media campaigns - Nevada and Florida - all have severe caps and in each case, insurers have continued to increase insurance rates.

Limiting Liability Will Not Fix Insurance Problems

The Impact of Non-Economic Damage Caps on Physician Premiums, Claims Payout Levels, and Availability of Coverage

3. Lawsuits are not limiting access to health care. The U.S. General Accounting Office found, after an extensive investigation, that doctors’ groups have misled, fabricated evidence, or, at the very least, wildly overstated their case about how malpractice insurance problems have limited access to health care. The only health care access problems that GAO could confirm were isolated and the result of factors having nothing at all to do with the legal system.

MEDICAL MALPRACTICE: Implications of Rising Premiums on Access to Health Care

Center for Justice & Democracy letter to the American Medical Association regarding the GAO study above.

4. Medical malpractice costs are a tiny percentage of overall health care expenditures. Medical malpractice insurance and claims costs represent, at most, only 2 percent of overall health care spending in this country, according to both the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting Office.

President Uses Dubious Statistics on Costs of Malpractice Lawsuits

Think Malpractice is Driving Up Health Care Costs? Think Again.

Tillinghast’s "Tort Cost" Figures Vastly Overstate the Cost of the American Legal System

5. Medical malpractice lawsuit filings, payouts and jury verdicts are all dropping. According to the National Center for State Courts (NCSC), “the 1992 to 2001 trend in medical malpractice filings per 100,000 population has only fluctuated minimally, with an overall 1 percent decrease in per capita filings.”

Tort and Contract Caseloads in State Trial Courts

· Total medical malpractice payouts dropped 6.9 percent from 2001 to 2002 according to a National Practitioner Data Bank (NPDB) analysis by Public Citizen.

Quick Facts on Medical Malpractice Issues

· Jury verdicts in medical malpractice cases are stagnant, even according to Jury Verdict Research data, which tends to over-inflate award trends.

Verdict and Settlement Study Released: No Change in Median Medical Malpractice Jury Award
Plaintiff Recovery Rate Up a Fraction

6. Most malpractice is caused by a small number of doctors who are never sanctioned. Nothing is being done to crack down on the 5 percent of doctors (1 out of 20) that are responsible for 54 percent of malpractice payouts.

Quick Facts on Medical Malpractice Issues

QuestionableDoctors.org

7. Medical malpractice is continuing at epidemic proportions in this country. In 1999, the Institute of Medicine, part of the National Academy of Sciences, found that medical errors cause between 44,000 and 98,000 deaths in hospitals each year. Even when using the lower estimate, deaths due to medical errors exceed the number attributable to the 8th leading cause of death. More die in a given year as a result of medical errors than from motor vehicle accidents (43,458), breast cancer (42,297) or AIDS (16,516).

But now add the influence of insurance companies--besides malpractice insurance--and you have many reasons for not pursuing medicine.

Some make as low as $120,000.

I wouldn't call that overpaid.

my daughter did four years of pre-med, four years of med, three years of intern/residency to become a pediatrician and then did three years of fellowship to get board certified in two other fields (metabolic diseases and genetics). I think she should be paid a lot more than she is getting now.

My company sells an online practice management system. A fair number of our customers, hospitals and physicians, have gone out of business. We don't charge a lot for our service, usually between $100 - $300 month, but it's like pulling teeth to get paid. Many no longer accept new Medicare patients because it costs them more to provide treatment then Medicare pays. I have no idea why any doctor takes Medicaid patients. The reimbursement for Medicaid patients isn't even close to what it costs the doctor. The insurance companies make matters worse by playing a game. They automatically deny claims until the doctor calls two or three times. Every practice I've seen has 2 or 3 people dedicated to calling insurance companies to beg for payment. If Obama really wants to reduce Medical waste, he should get the insurance companies to cut the crap and just pay the doctors what they are owed. It would save every doctor 2 or more salaries.

I didn't want to go into great detail, but I was actually friends with my physician when I lived in Los Angeles, and I know for a fact he was losing money because he had to have such a large staff to deal with the bullshit of trying to be a GP.

Not only that, but a guy a grew up with became a doctor--a great doctor with extremely high ethical standards--and he just quit because he could not do what he wanted to do: Heal human beings. All his time was wasted on other matters. He just gave up.

I went through pre-med, got top grades and before entering medical school spent a summer with a field doctor in his practice. In a 10 hour day, he spent about 6 of them arguing with one insurance asshole or another to get approvals for treatment and payment after treatment.

Fuck that, I switched to CompSci and did far better until Clinton fucked us.

It is terrible to lose people from the field. I don't blame you, but it is just such a disgrace, and so sad.

Some of my earliest memories are of my grandmother butchering hogs, and I've delivered several calves and lambs.

So I'm not particularly squeamish, but I can't imagine cutting open a human, or helping deliver a baby.

I don't begrudge them what they earn, but I wonder how much of what they charge they actually get (after it's filtered through the insurance vampires).

insurance vampires took hold.

Back in the day, it was legal for them to operate on people who couldn't afford to pay them, and they did that. They would do anything to help people stay alive. They were well educated and had a good sense of what they were doing--Wash U.

But that was before it was a business.

AND tell the doctors not to waste any time on the patients.

They should make good money - it is demanding work with many years of training and difficult hours. I don't begrudge them a decent wage, and very few of them make the indecent wages of bankers and brokers.

malpractice insurance premiums, so I don't know. I can't afford to go into private practice as a geologist because I can't afford the insurance, they can form collectives at least.

Are you kidding?

companies spend tens of millions of dollars drilling a well, and I provide my services on the project, I do assume liability for my decisions.

they probably don't make too much money.

... aren't paid enough. Specialists and surgeons are often overpaid.

none of it was worth it, i didnt want it and money isnt my priority.

but we all have the opportunity to make that same money, if we chose

it has become a caricature of itself.

The lure of "getting rich" has attracted too many people into the profession that would be better suited to selling cars and the AMA has so successfully limited competition that too many potential healers are priced out of the market. Do you think we have so many practitioners from other nations because they are simply better, or is it because they can go to school without accumulating a mountain of debt that mortgages their future for decades?

The insurance industry is another gigantic drag on health care and the source of another library of crimes and perversion.

as the market will bear. They have worked/studied long and hard, and should get paid well.

Insurance Executives though, well, that's a different story altogether........

malpractice insurance is insanely expensive, staff, xray machines, supplies etc etc etc.

My beef with medical doctors is the fact that they see people every 5-10 minutes, they can't possibly figure out in that timeframe what is wrong with someone.....they are not as perfect as Dr. House......

spend it! All they DO is WORK!!

1 home and 1 BMW should be sufficient. 150,000 to 200K a year should be more then a comfortable living; did you see that UK doctor that Moore interviewed in SickO?? He looked well off to me, plus he did not pay for his education, the state did. With UHC, I think that is fair, it is a strong encouragement to become a medical doctor or nurse.

I would go and become a nurse if I did not have to pay for the education to do so.

Insurance Companies, BigPharma and Doctors form their own little axis of evil.

Here in USA it takes 2-3 yrs for the education to become an RN. You could become a LPN in 1 yr.

There are many professions that have way too many way overpaid people in them imo. Finance/banking for one....thats an easy one these days.
Doctors actually work their butts off, med school is fricking BRUTAL and expensive and doctors actually have real skills. I have to confess I can't help thinking often when I think of the financial crisis, how some of the most sleazy/least competent people I knew in engineering school ended up in business management, financial consulting/something finance related. Why not? Those don't seem to be uber rigorous fields (like most fields stemming from the social/soft sciences) and you make way more money than the average scientist or even engineers.

At least imo, in medicine, engineering, any hard science you actually have to know wtf you are doing/wtf you are talking about/possess actual skills.

I think some of the most overpaid people out there are the sleazoids with "people skills" that pick up some job in business management/finance. I am not saying there aren't some competent people in those areas, but I do think a lot of them are overpaid for the so-called skills they bring to the table.
Whereas becoming a doctor is really pretty hard, intense and involves working round the clock (well at least the average doctor in my experience-I dated a string of 'em in grad school and I was in an applied physics program that was pretty hard, but nothing compared to what they had to go through I felt a lot of days).
But then again, I am a particularly rude/socially inept engineer/physicist, so maybe it is that people in some of these other fields I am dissing have skills I can't even fully appreciate given my neurochemistry :shrug:.

Medical care is expensive. Doctors have a ton of overhead.

Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies are what is driving up the costs so much.

or one of our dear friends who is a state pathologist. None of them are making anywhere near that kind of money.

American MDs make significantly more than their OECD peers and their patients' outcomes are no better. One link comparing salaries: http://www.worldsalaries.org/generalphysician.shtml

My sense is that GPs (that vanishing breed) are reasonably compensated compared to specialists. Very interesting article on American medical spending which also touches on Doctor's incomes from "The New Yorker": http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande

One more shot. Doctors and right-wingers love to blame malpractice insurance/malpractice law suits for their escalating fees- but with the possible exception of obstetric practices, I don't think the facts back them up. Another (admittedly old) link: http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=1316

20 grand a year for malpractice insurance for my husband's small GP practice and another mandatory 5 grand to the state to a fund which is supposed to help OBGYN docs be able to keep practicing due to their 50 grand plus malpractice premiums. I wouldn't call that low.

If you read the linked article you may have noticed that it said "Malpractice insurance costs amount to only 3.2 percent of the average physician’s revenues." The article was published in 2003 and the latest available data was surely no later than 2002- but I doubt that the picture has changed much. Anyway, if your husband's practice pays out $25K for malpractice premiums, that would represent 3.2% of $780,000 in gross income...

My brother is a retired GP who spent most of his medical career working in a medically underserved area in the Appalachians. I know he harbored considerable resentment against the whole idea of malpractice insurance- especially the out-of-court settlements.

When I look at the available figures though, malpractice insurance appears like a pretty ordinary business expense (noting the OBGYN exception, of course). Malpractice insurance should be a lot less than staff salaries and a lot more than the electricity bill.

Another frame of reference: The $290,000,000 malpractice premium cost for New Jersey in 2001 amounts to about $35 per person. Annual health care costs are currently around $6,000 per capita and may have been around $5,000 in 2001. In short, very likely less than 1% of all medical spending.

750,000 in income. Those numbers are way outdated or wrong. Malpractice is near ten percent of income if I am thinking right. Yes,m I just used a calculator and it is ten percent. Then there is property insurance for the office, and a myriad of other taxes and expenses one has when owning a small business.

malpractice insurance equals 10% of GROSS income unless the doctor is semi-retired. Very believable that it would equate to 10% or more of net income- but that's not the issue since we're talking about a business expense. How many people are employed in your husband's practice?

and it is almost but not quite ten percent. It has risen every year. That is gross income not net. And my hubby is on call 24/7 except one weekend a month. He has only been sued twice in twenty five years of practice and he wanted to fight both times but the insurance company decided that. They thought it cheaper for them to settle for a low cost than fight it in court. What we wanted was not considered. So not only do they take a large amt of our income they also decide what will be payed out and whether it is worth a court fight or not..

Let me get this straight. Your husband has an individual practice (not a group practice) and he makes house calls...

I thought that species was extinct. The small size of his practice may also be part of the reason that his malpractice insurance eats up such a high % of his income.

and makes house calls. He is tied to his beeper/phone 24/7. Most new docs end up working for the big hospitals these days. Not many start their own practice and after what we went through years ago starting hubby's up it may be the smart thing to do but it is a shame in the end. It is a good thing to have independent docs out there not beholding to an employer.

not to mention cost of living expenses while in school and any undergraduate debt. When taxpayers pay off the doctors student loans for them then I think a cut in pay would be in order.

:thumbsup:

Aside from all that, most people don't even have any idea of the gruelling nightmare that med school is to boot...
It is NOT akin to being some spoilt little Republican chicken little brat who is wealthy because he gets to be vice prez at his dad's company after getting his MBA from Harvard...
Med school is hard, hard work..and what comes after is not that much better. And all the while with HUGE student loan on your back.

so.. whats a fair wage not counting student loans? then add 12k

Atul Gawande, Annals of Medicine, The Cost Conundrum.

Some doctors treat their practice like a profit making business, others don't. Wouldn't a system that pays a Doctor for services rather than his business acumen lead to doctors motivated by public service rather than money and thus better health care for the dollar?

The family and internal medicine docs don't make anywhere near what they ought to.

But if they're pushing drugs to get "bonuses" from pharmaceutical companies, they should go to jail like any other dealer.

However, in my extensive personal experience with Doctors, there aren't that many who do that. Of course most of the ones I knew/know were/are very young and just starting their careers, so who knows :shrug:? I do think a lot of them go into the profession because they actually want to help people..
I do think it is profession with more idealism inherent in it (at least for people who are starting out) than many others...

Of course I am realizing as I type this that my perception may be a bit biased by the fact that I know mostly M.D. Ph.D.s, and an M.D. Ph.D is a somewhat different beast than just the M.D. It seems to me like a lot of M.D. Ph.D.s are more intellectually curious and more interested in the basic scientific fundamentals underlying different therapies etc., than a lot of med students.

I think intellectual curiosity is a large part of the basis for the "professional morality" if you will, of most scientists/doctors etc. So if you entered a profession merely because you wanted to make a lot of money, rather than because you actually want to help people/are intellectually curious and genuinely want to understand the molecular mechanisms underlying various diseases etc., you will probably end up sucking at your actual job. For example by being a hustler for Pharma companies as you mentioned.

(Edit: of course all of this is anecdotal...I just happen to have worked/taken classes close to medical centres at all the universities I was ever at. So it isn't a particularly large or rigorously analyzed data set ;-))

.

As it stands most MDs end up with essentially the equivalent of a second or third mortgage worth of school debt.

the insurance paperwork and costs got too expensive, time consuming and aggravating for him and his staff.

Most of them, about 70%, are very, greedy. They admit openly they went into medicine to make money. And they do, lots of it. One month's salary for them would take care of a family of 4 for a year.

About 30% of the doctors I know are caring and concerned people. They make about $100,000 a year, much less than the 70%. I think the 70% are overpaid.

Let's see. That would work out to a monthly income of about $13,000. Hardly enough to feed a family of four for a year.

or whatever they may be, and some who are just terrible.

mark

Family practitioners aren't paid ENOUGH. Which is why there's such a shortage of them.

I saved this from a prior post. I don't claim any credit for the excellent work:

Aetna's Ron Williams - CEO Compensation

Total Compensation: $24,300,112

Details: Williams earned $24,300,112 in total compensation for 2008, with more than half of that ($13,537,365) coming from option awards. He also received an additional $6,456,630 in stock awards to go along with his base salary of $1,091,764.

Personal use of a corporate aircraft and vehicle, as well as financial planning and 401(k) company matches added up to $101,487 for Williams.

Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/aetnas-ron-willia...
Links:
<1> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/aetna-stock-falls...
<2> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/aetna-pay-5m-over...
<3> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/aetna-will-pay-20...
<4> http://www.fiercehealthit.com/story/aetna-enters-phr-ma...


H. Edward Hanway - CIGNA

Total Compensation: $12,236,740

Details: Hanway took a significant pay cut from 2007 to 2008, due mainly to a drop off of more than $11 million in his non-equity incentive plan compensation. Still, his base salary of $1,142,885 surpasses that of Aetna's Williams, and is supplemented by just over $3.6 million in option awards, and just over $820,000 in non-qualified deferred compensation earnings.

Also, nearly $21,800 in "other compensation" included the use of a company car with a driver, in-office meals, and emergency assistance services relating to medical exams.

Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/cignas-h-edward-h...
Links:
<1> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/cigna-first-quart...
<2> http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/cigna-aetna-de...


WellPoint's Angela Braly - CEO Compensation

Total Compensation: $9,844,212

Details: Braly, like Williams, earned more money in 2008 ($9,844,212) than in 2007 (9,094,271), increasing her option rewards by nearly $1.5 million, and also receiving a $200,000-plus bump in base salary, from $922,269 to $1,135,538. Braly's stock awards dropped from $2,160,159 to $1,750,015 because, according to the SEC, "performance-based restricted stock units awarded in 2008 were cancelled because our ROE target for 2008 was not met."

Braly's "other compensation" comprised use of a private jet for her and her family on business trips, just under $10,000 for legal services relating to her employment agreement and cash credits.

Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/wellpoints-angela...
Links:
<1> http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/health-plans-n...
<2> http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/wellpoint-push...
<3> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/wellpoint-loses-m...

Coventry Health Care's Dale Wolf - CEO Compensation

Total Compensation: $9,047,469

Details: Wolf is the only CEO on this list who is no longer employed with his associated health plan; he retired from his position on Jan. 30 <1> of this year after serving in that role since Jan. 1, 2005, and was replaced by former CEO Allen Wise.

Wolf, whose total compensation dipped quite a bit from 2007 ($14,869,823) to 2008 ($9,047,469), was pleased with the direction the company was headed in at the time of his departure.

"I am proud of what a talented group of people have accomplished over the past 13 years of my association with the company," Wolf said, "and I am confident that the fundamentals which are in place today will carry the company forward to continued success."

Wolf carried a base salary of $965,000 in 2008, and earned just over $1.9 million in stock awards. His "other compensation," which amounted to $486,447, included transportation on the company's airplane, a company match retirement savings plan and a company match 401(k) plan.

Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/coventry-health-c...
Links:
<1> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/press-releases/dale-wol...
<2> http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/if-health-plan...

Centene's Michael Neidorff - CEO Compensation

Total Compensation: $8,774,483

Details: Neidorff, who's base salary remained at $1 million, received increases in both his bonus ($1.25 million, up from $1 million) and his stock awards ($4.7 million, from $3.98 million) in 2008. According to the SEC, "Neidorff's agreement was amended twice in the past twelve months; (1) to eliminate the non-compete and non-solicitation requirements if there was a ‘hostile change in control' as defined in his agreement and (2) to add language to the agreement to make it compliant with Internal Revenue Section 409A."

Neidorff's "other compensation" of just over $418,000 comprised of use of the company airplane "for all travel," life insurance benefits, security services, and tax preparation services, among other things.
Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/centenes-michael-...

AMERIGROUP's James Carlson - CEO Compensation

Total Compensation: $5,292,546

Details: Despite a lawsuit regarding Medicaid fraud that cost the Illinois plan $225 million <1>, Carlson himself earned roughly $2 million more than he did in 2007. All aspects of his compensation increased in 2008, from his base salary (up from $608,000 to just over $761,000) to his non-equity incentive plan compensation (up to about $2.8 million from $1.98 million a year ago). Carlson's bonus also grew quite a bit, going from $225,000 in 2007 to $520,312 in 2008; much of that amount was based on long term incentive program goals being met.

Carlson's "other compensation," which nearly tripled (going from about $7,000 to just over $20,000), included his employer 401(k) contribution, life insurance premiums, an executive health screening, flight services and a medical insurance stipend.

Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/amerigroups-james...
Links:
<1> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/amerigroup-pay-22...
<2> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/press-releases/amerigro...
<3> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/amerigroup-pay-22...

Humana's Michael McCallister - CEO Compensation

Total Compensation: $4,764,309

Details: Despite its pick ups of two smaller health plans (OSF Health Plans of Peoria, IL and Cos/Cariten Healthcare of Knoxville, TN) <1>, Humana's McCallister earned roughly $5.5 million less in 2008 than in 2007. While his base salary ($1,017,308), option awards ($3,078,897) and "other compensation" ($668,104) all increased, his non-equity incentive plan compensation and his nonqualified deferred compensation earnings totaled zero dollars. The latter represents a discontinuation of the Officers' Target Retirement Plan, according to the SEC.

McCallister's "other compensation" included personal use of the company aircraft for him, and sometimes his family; company contributions to the Supplemental Executive Retirement & Savings Plan and the Humana Retirement & Savings Plan; a once-a-year physical, financial planning assistance, and more.

Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/humanas-michael-m...
Links:
<1> http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/humana-hungry-...
<2> http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/humana-hungry-...
<3> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/health-insurance-...

Health Net's Jay Gellert - CEO Compensation

Total Compensation: $4,425,355

Details: Gellert, whose company is considering selling off divisions in at least four states <1>, earned nearly $740,000 in additional compensation for 2008. His overall base salary increased to a little more than $1.2 million from about $1.18 million in 2007, and his stock awards also rose (from about $1.4 million to more than $1.8 million).

Gellert's "other compensation," which totaled $131,526, included, but were not limited to, a $53,000 housing allowance, a corporate car and tax reimbursements of nearly $41,000.

Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/health-nets-jay-g...
Links:
<1> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/health-net-consid...
<2> http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/healthnet-real...
<3> http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/health-net-con...
<4> http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/health-net-consid...

Universal American's Richard Barasch - CEO Compensation

Total Compensation: $3,503,702

Details: After taking a pay cut from 2006 to 2007, Barasch more than doubled his total compensation for 2008, jumping up from $1,564,293 in 2007. Barasch's base salary jumped up to $857,851 from $798,340 in 2007; his stock and option awards also increased, as did his "other compensation," which reflected a car allowance, relocation benefits and a matching contribution to his 401(k).

Also of note for Barasch was the fact that his non-equity incentive plan compensation earnings totaled $1,195,147; in 2007, he did not receive any money in 2007 for such compensation, but took home $1.1 million in 2006.
Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/universal-america...

UnitedHealth Group's Stephen Hemsley - CEO Compensation

Total Compensation: $3,241,042

Details: An $895 million class-action lawsuit over stock-option back dating <1> aside, Hemsley still manages to make the cut for this list at No. 10. The UHG CEO's base salary was $1.3 million in 2008, to go along with a non-equity incentive plan compensation worth just over $1.8 million and "other compensation" amounting to slightly more than $119,000.

Hemsley's other compensation was a combination of the company matching his contributions under the 401(k) plan and the company matching contributions under his executive savings plan. According to the SEC, "in May 2006, the amount of Hemsley's supplemental retirement benefit was frozen based on his current age and average base salary and converted into a lump sum of $10,703,229." Because of this, "there was no increase in the benefit payable to Mr. Hemsley under his supplemental retirement benefit" in 2008.

Source URL:
http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/unitedhealth-grou...
Links:
<1> http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/unitedhealth-s

not to mention the residency, with its 100+ hours a week. Even at half a mil, it's not all that much because they have stressful jobs, loads of school debt, and malpractice insurance!x(

I know someone who made around 900K in the stock market biz, got his earnings cut last year in half...He never even went to college! What does 450K come out to per day--2K a day?!

At least the rural community doctors don't I had started another discussion concerning my family doctor possibly closing her practice due to Medicare NOT paying in a timely manner. She has taken a second job as well as her husband works two jobs in order to keep their home and be able to keep her practice open and her two full time and one part time employees working and serving her patients.

Any doctor that is making big bucks is within a conglomerate or is within a specialized field. General practitioners as a whole make squat. This is especially so considering the huge overhead, medical mal-practice insurance being the biggest factor in it.

Someone who makes twice as much as someone working at McDonald's or someone who makes ten times as much? I'll take the latter. I don't like to think about a hawker on my burger, but I really don't want one in my in my incision.

Dr Frist makes way to much money. I would imagine that there are many who have pulled similar stunts, for whom Dr'ing is far secondary to pushing their agenda or to making wealth on the back of the system.

On the other hand those who do the day to day work of healing people, I don't really know what they make, but I expect it isn't terribly unreasonable for the skills and responsibility they bear.

grueling and medical education requires about a decade of one's life to complete. Then you get the joy of paying out tens of thousands of dollars annually for medical malpractice insurance and practicing in a profession with an astronomical overhead cost that keeps going up - all the while squeezing in time for continuing education.


No.

no, they don't make too much money

Some are in it for the money, some are in it to do good. I've met both kinds.

Julie