Baucus Tells Single-Payer Advocates No

Senator Max Baucus met Wednesday with advocates for single-payer healthcare, including Senator Bernie Sanders, and told them that he might drop criminal charges against 13 people arrested for speaking up in his hearings, but that he would not include any supporters of single-payer health coverage in any future hearings. According to one report, Baucus suggested that he'd been mistaken to exclude single-payer but asserted that the process of creating healthcare reform legislation was too far along now to correct that omission.

Senator Sanders said after the meeting that if healthcare reform did not create a single-payer system it shouldn't be done at all, and that within three or four years we would realize we'd solved nothing. He said that it would be better to increase funding for community health centers and take steps to make it easier for medical students to go into primary care, than to enact major reforms that didn't go to the root of the problem.

Sanders has a bill (S 486) that makes some of the changes he advocates, as well as a bill (S 703) to facilitate the creation by states of single-payer healthcare systems. Congresswoman Tammy Baldwin has introduced resolutions on the same topic in the House. Dr. Margaret Flowers, co-chair of the Maryland chapter of Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP), attended a press conference following the meeting on Wednesday and filled me in. She said that while states are pursuing single-payer legislation, it would be much easier for them to succeed if they had waivers allowing federal healthcare dollars to go to the states, and if needed changes were made to the Employee Retirement Income Security Act.

Advocates of single-payer emerged from the meeting with Baucus declaring their determination to push ahead with what they see as a fundamental struggle for human rights. Rose Ann DeMoro, executive director of the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee and national vice president of the AFL-CIO, said the fight for single-payer is a civil rights movement, and that people "have to turn up the heat." When someone questions the political viability of single payer, she said, we should question "allowing people to die and suffer for lack of political will."

The press conference, in which Baucus did not participate, was attended by the New York Times, Politico, the Associated Press, Pacifica Radio, Congressional Quarterly, and a camera that Flowers believed belonged to CNN. Sanders opened the press conference with a statement on the domination of the private for-profit health insurance companies wasting $350 billion per year in billing, profiteering, and complexity. If we were serious about healthcare reform, he said, we would be having a serious discussion of single-payer.

Dr. Marcia Angell, former editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine and senior lecturer at Harvard, said that in her diagnosis the disease was market-driven healthcare in which access is based on the ability to pay.

Dr. David Himmelstein, co-founder of PNHP and associate professor medicine at Harvard Medical School, reported that Baucus had said he might be willing to drop charges of unlawful conduct and disruption of Congress against 13 people but had no intention of opening up any hearings to include single-payer. Himmelstein also announced the release of two new studies. The first, being released Wednesday, reportedly finds that some of the largest investors in tobacco stock are private health insurance companies. The second, to be released Thursday, reportedly shows that not only are personal bankruptcies increasing, but 62 percent of them are now due to medical debt.

Geri Jenkins, RN, co-president of the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee and a practicing registered nurse, reported that Baucus had implied he'd made a mistake in not including single-payer but that it was too late now.

And, finally, Dr. Oliver Fein, president of PNHP and associate dean at Weill Medical College of Cornell University, said that he and his colleagues had asked Baucus for a full hearing on the merits of single payer and asked for the Congressional Budget Office to create a comparison of single payer with whatever plan Congress produces that is not single payer. Senator Sanders said that he would continue to push Baucus to hold a hearing.

Dr. Flowers said that in her analysis the single-payer movement is largely inclined to go in the direction that Sanders stated on Wednesday: support for a single-payer bill or nothing. I asked her whether she believed that those pushing for single payer would ever support a public option as doing more good than harm and whether she thought those pushing for a public option would ever advocate allowing states to enact single payer. Flowers acknowledged that there are many (perhaps even most) people in the public option movement who prefer single payer. In fact, it is difficult to find a supporter of the public option who does not claim to "personally" want single payer but to find it "politically unfeasible." But Flowers said that PNHP does not support a public option and backs only single payer. And she said she was unaware of any advocates of a public option also advocating for allowing states to create single payer.

i, personally don't know much about it:shrug:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:wtf: & what did i post?

of bush...you may have issues with clinton and I also do...but he was not a bad president...I also have issues with Obama and I
really like him...

i love du- grannie :)

It is was disgraceful to see Sen. Baucus arrest doctors and nurses in the Senate hearings
for trying to provide their expert input on healthcare reform.

Baucus Tells Single-Payer Advocates No

By David Swanson
June 3, 2009, Washington, DC




MAD MAX BAUCUS' HEALTH CARE PLAN: ARREST DR.S, NURSES AND VOTERS

I have no doubt that a single-payer national health system would save a lot of money over the current system, but I have yet to hear from anyone that it would create a 90% savings on our health care costs.

It's too late *for him*.

but a well-funded ass...politics as susal in healthcare "reform."

ANYONE at all.

Sorry, but if they won't even listen to single payer, I oppose whatever they put up.

that is non single payer would most likely be written by the very profiteers that cost us so much now. It would not be an improvement. There is a good chance it will be worse.

for their nomination. When is the crook up for reelection?

Yes, he was just re-elected.

At teh behest on insurance and pharmacy companies.

Recalling either is unconsittutional.

VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE....ask DiFi.

I am from Montana and we can recall baucus

No state may recall a sitting Senator or Congressperson.

It's unconstitutional.

The power to remove sitting Senators and Representatives is reserved to the body in which they sit by Article I, Section 5 of the United States Constitution.

Cheers and welcome to DU.

Any "reform" coming out of the Insurance company sponsored Baucus committee will just end up as another welfare program for the insurance industry.

Spending money now on useless "reform" would be a waste of resources.

Besides, should the insurance industry get pissy because they were denied instant wealth from any bill Baucus proposed they will raise rates, which will serve to quicken the desire by both citizens and corporate America to get out from underneath the for profit health care system.

2008:
Pharmaceuticals/Health = $852,813
Health Professionals = $851,141
Insurance = $784,185
Lobbyists = $470,774
Hospitals/Nursing Homes = $466,826
Health Services/HMOs = $465,750
59601 HELENA, MT = $49,106

This system is sickening.
A greased lackey cashes his checks while 20,000 uninsured die needlessly.

:puke:

Over $2 million in contributions from health and insurance industries.

Think "Mutual of Omaha"

If he votes against them, will they hit him with a tranquilizer dart and tag his ear?

:D

"Wrestle it to the ground your own damn self!"

be filibustered

acts all over the airwaves.

The corporations have too much to lose, and they will make their politicians do ANYTHING to ensure their filthy lucre keeps coming in. If that includes belligerently arresting people who only want the best system possible, then so be it.

Look at Baucus....he shut out single-payer on purpose, had their advocates arrested, and then pretends that the process is too far along to correct his "mistake". He planned this all along. Any fool would know that you do not start negotiations with your fall-back position (public option). He is a politician, and should be BETTER than me at horse-trading.

But he fouls it up and then pretends it was some kind of innocent mistake. Anyone here believe him? I certainly don;t...not with 1.4 million of healthcare lobby money in his pocket.

And mark my works, if Americans do not get real and meaningful healthcare reform, they will put the Republicans back in charge.

Conservadems, I think, want the Republicans in charge because Republicans give them cover for pushing the corporate agenda. When Dems are in charge, their spinelessness and complicity are too apparent for all to see. they actually have to work at getting the corporations what they need, and it hurts their image as a "man/woman of the people"

So are there ANY victories to be won here? Yes, there are. I see very few people on DU defending these corporate Dems any more. At least we don't have to convince everyone here that all Democrats are not created equal.

I say let the insurance industry develope new products and let go of health care...isn't that how business works, when a product becomes out-dated, such as health insurance, they develope other products...Our corporations and manufacturing companies are going out of business or really having a tough time keeping up with insurance costs.

Only the health insurance companies are.

For those who turned up as the Single Payers w no seat at Baucus's Committee table
and then got arrested for our beliefs, I commend you.

There are those who say, "It can't be done" and give their endless reasons as to why,
and to why we must accept and to why we must conform, but there are those Americans,
to whom we Really look up to and want to be apart of,
those who say "Never say Never!"

Republican. We must elect real Democrats.

protests planned all through the state in the month of June. It was just announced on the Thom Hartmann show. If he ignores those who vote for him, I don't see a big political future for him.

which is where most of the obstruction and enabling starts

see post below

He will re-emerge as a million dollar salaried lobbyist for the health-care industry.

There is no punishment we can level on Baucus that will stop him from his trajectory. He is determined to screw people over for his corporate masters.

When Rep. Billy Tauzin of Louisiana left the House of Representatives in 2005, he immediately became a lobbyist for the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. I expect that there is a similarly cushy job waiting for Baucus.

Can't figure out how to start over?

Do I hear: "I resign." Yet?

Does he not know how to resign even?

We need to make sure we don't end up supporting a corporate welfare bad bill, one that further entrenches established interests, and which might make future reform much more difficult, if not impossible.

We should not fall for the "That's the best we can get right now, so we must go along" UNLESS it actually does make things better, not worse.

If we think that the established interests are not capable of corrupting this "reform" so as to help the position of the bad guys, then, to use the word of a former president, we will have "MIS-UNDERESTIMATED" them once again.

It will fail, and when we try again the failure of a public health option will be waved under our noses that we got what we supported (or asked for) and it was a colossal failure.

Although I would like a single payer system, I am willing to settle for something less as a starting point as long as it meets minimum criteria:

Access for all (all applications must be approved) and affordability at a minimum for those who need it most - at a minimum a tiered premium plan based on income, not health status).

The current push for a public health plan option only requires access, and will do nothing to make health care available to those without insurance because they cannot afford the premiums.

If Baucus and his lobbyist friends (along with other treasonous Dems and Pugs) do not give us the REAL healthcare reform that we (the American people are demanding), we need to put them on NOTICE that they most definitely will lose their seat come election time. I believe the power of the people is much stronger than ANY no-good lobbyists in Washington. We got the power, people. We have got to use it... now is the time.

how do we go about removing him from the committee?

That's an assumption that is extremely unwarranted. The only way you will get them to respect the interests of the people is to make an example of Max Baucus. Select him or another conspicuous corporatist traitor. Raise a nationwide donation collecting campaign to unseat them.

Take them down, even if it means losing the seat to the other party. Take them down.

Only when they fear you will they begin to respect you. Until then, it will be all aboard the corporate gravy train, and you may as well be voting for Republicans.

And I have the first $100.00 to throw into the pot to take that fucker down!

or you wait until January 3, 2011 when committee chairmanships are assigned.

the man makes so much money from lobbyists. we need to be on his a$$.

his attention.

he may be carrying water for the industry but he rationalizes it with years of getting calls from dittoheads who attack his offices with screams of 'socialism', loss of choice, etc whenever the dem party tries to reform any aspect of US healthcare. he may actually believe that the recent increase in activism on this issue comes from an activated minority. either way, he needs to be forced to make a choice between limbaugh and big pharma, and the majority of his constituents.

politics in his state, like most red states, is dominated by the limbaugh and hannity radio stations. after and before them are the local wanabes and a single loudmouth reading chamber of commerce and big pharma talking points can undo the work of thousands of local citizens because most have call screeners to protect them from callers wanting to correct them. if they won't take real calls the only way to talk back to the country's largest soapboxes is to call complain boycott and picket the stations themselves and their local sponsors, who have been propagandizing many issues like health care for 20 years without contest. the loudest and best coordinated constituency on issues like this in the past have been the dittoheads, echoing those distortions and talking points to baucus and staff.

unions and progressives who want to picket and boycott ought to try their RW megastations, the political power centers that enable most of the obstruction to real progress on issues like health care.

Most of us progressives and left people have been bitching about the RW outlets for as long as they have existed. As endearing as it would be to protest these outlets in Montana it will not really put the fear god into Baucus. He needs to ALSO know that if he does not support Democratic ideals he will be put out of office.

After all why would he care if the people all protest Faux news and Limbaugh as long as he still gets his insurance company campaign contributions? And what power do the democrats of his home state have if we just chase the ultra-ultra right wing. Ultimately he will be enabled to make the argument "Well I might be a conservative democrat... but really your only choices are me or Atilla the Hun over there."

back on this issue. the GOP position is no on single payer and the biggest advocate of that position are those radio stations. protests there may point out that baucus is siding with limbaugh and sons more than the majority of his constituents. protesting limbaugh and co is implied but the signs will say single payer/baucus.

protesting at his offices you're assuming he's going to buck his insurance cos and respond to his constituents anyway.

this way instead of getting a hundred people at his offices or the town square and being put down by the massive talk radio soapbox (like the iraq invasion) the media will see something different - the final acknowledgement that limbaugh is top man in the GOP, he has 1000 offices around the country, and baucus is siding with limbaugh and the disinformed dittoheads that have been enabling his siding with the insurance industry.

The GOP position is No real healthcare reform at all and No option of even a small limited program. That encompasses one end of the spectrum. The Moderate Democratic position currently does not even include a single payer plan.

Given this the halfway point is between No plan and a corporate/insurance company friendly plan. Roughing the conservative side only moves the whole debate a little more from the conservative-corporate whore side to the Democratic corporate friendly side. In terms of real reform this is absolutely useless in fact it could be worse than useless as it becomes a corporate wealthfare feeding trough.

I don't think the insurance companies should have so much sway in the debate and I think they have paid for influence from within our own party as indicated in previous posts.

the range of healthcare 'options' has been defined by the ins industry through the GOP as a whole and parts of the dem party

obama may try to stretch that range toward single payer and like all politics the compromising will decide.

however, most of the politicians involved feel some pressure from constituents- they pick and choose what group gets more weight, and that is my point

the greatest enabler at the back of those giving too much to the insurance cos is the talk radio megaphone that has polluted this whole issue since clinton with a long list of myths and lies that scare a wide range of americans into thinking that single payer will lead to communism, aids, monster taxes, no choice, stupid doctors, etc.

what I have seen, the movement is growing. I was reading the FAQ on the PNHP website. They will not go for a mix of a private and public plan. In their opinion, it just won't work. They are pushing for single payer only.

A torch has been lit.

Too bad corporate power has reached its zenith.

We are victims of HMO abuse.. If we can't have real reform,let it fall apart until we get what we deserve. The Obama plan will only raise costs from 16% of GDP to probably over 20%.. We already pay double what other nations pay, with inferior service..
Maybe when half of the American people are without health care, we'll get real health care.

I got health insurance that's gone up 3 times in the last 6 months, even though I've only since a doctor (a $50. visit) twice in 4 years. Last time they said the increase was because of the increase in administration costs " which as members we would all understand" and this month I get a notice of yet another increase, plus they are doing away w my prescription coverage. I've paid those blood suckers over $12,000 just for myself for a $50. benefit that being the 2-$50. doctors visits of which I paid half...a $25. co-pay.

My husband can't get health insurance because of a pre-existing heart condition that cropped up shortly after he lost his job of more than 25 years (manufacturing sent overseas) and of 25 years of paying the blood suckers monthly. The doctors and hospital wanted $250,000 dollars to correct it here in the States. It would have bankrupt us, taken our home, our life savings and turned us into in debt beggers for our remaining years. We flew to Thailand to have it done there. Put $80,000 of expenses of Chase and B of A at 29.9% in order to survive.

Why is it an American who has been hard working his whole life and has always paid for health insurance for his whole family, is reduced to flying to a foreign country, around the world, for treatment? Then left w crippling payments at usuary rates.

I am so pissed.

I'll tell you what we should and can do to show em all.

Everyone, I mean everyone should just cancel their policies and stop making payments. That will open their eyes.
That will show em who's boss!

We, the finaciers of their health for profit.

Our story is of our Calif HMO letting my wife's cancer go uchecked because their GP would not give us a referral. After we had to fight their bureauracy , we made it to specialist , just in the knick of time..
..
From the story below. We pay them a bankers ransom , as have you. Still we go bankrupt.
.
Medical bills underlie 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies: study

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Medical bills are involved in more than 60 percent of U.S. personal bankruptcies, an increase of 50 percent in just six years, U.S. researchers reported on Thursday.
More than 75 percent of these bankrupt families had health insurance but still were overwhelmed by their medical debts

CANCELED COVERAGE

"Nationally, a quarter of firms cancel coverage immediately when an employee suffers a disabling illness; another quarter do so within a year

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5530Y020090604

I'm emailing this to several people I know.

It's obviously not just the uninsured having problems with
this system but also the insured who are racking up so much
medical debt that they are going bankrupt. The number 1 cause
of bankruptcy.

Clearly the solution is not just to insure everyone,
but to completely change the system.

Single Payer now!

payer to the table is not feasible as it is too late. I said it is not too late you tell him I said that he keeps ignoring what 2/3 of the people want and he is not listening! I said he had doctors and nurses who had insight on what single payer could do and what did he do he had them arrested. I told her if I could get him impeached I would. I said you will make sure you tell him what I said and she said yes she would. (yea sure)....

UPDATE: This Just in from the President:

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary



For Immediate Release June 3, 2009


TEXT OF A LETTER FROM THE PRESIDENT TO
SENATOR EDWARD M. KENNEDY AND SENATOR MAX BAUCUS


June 2, 2009

The Honorable Edward M. Kennedy
The Honorable Max Baucus
United States Senate
Washington, D.C. 20510


Dear Senator Kennedy and Senator Baucus:

The meeting that we held today was very productive and I want to commend you for
your leadership -- and the hard work your Committees are doing on health care reform, one
of the most urgent and important challenges confronting us as a Nation.

In 2009, health care reform is not a luxury. It's a necessity we cannot defer. Soaring
health care costs make our current course unsustainable. It is unsustainable for our families,
whose spiraling premiums and out-of-pocket expenses are pushing them into bankruptcy and
forcing them to go without the checkups and prescriptions they need. It is unsustainable for
businesses, forcing more and more of them to choose between keeping their doors open or
covering their workers. And the ever-increasing cost of Medicare and Medicaid are among
the main drivers of enormous budget deficits that are threatening our economic future.

In short, the status quo is broken, and pouring money into a broken system only
perpetuates its inefficiencies. Doing nothing would only put our entire health care system at
risk. Without meaningful reform, one fifth of our economy is projected to be tied up in our
health care system in 10 years; millions more Americans are expected to go without insurance;
and outside of what they are receiving for health care, workers are projected to see their
take-home pay actually fall over time.

We simply cannot afford to postpone health care reform any longer. This recognition has
led an unprecedented coalition to emerge on behalf of reform -- hospitals, physicians, and health
insurers, labor and business, Democrats and Republicans. These groups, adversaries in past
efforts, are now standing as partners on the same side of this debate.

At this historic juncture, we share the goal of quality, affordable health care for all
Americans. But I want to stress that reform cannot mean focusing on expanded coverage
alone. Indeed, without a serious, sustained effort to reduce the growth rate of health care costs,
affordable health care coverage will remain out of reach. So we must attack the root causes
of the inflation in health care. That means promoting the best practices, not simply the most
expensive. We should ask why places like the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, the Cleveland Clinic
in Ohio, and other institutions can offer the highest quality care at costs well below the national
norm. We need to learn from their successes and replicate those best practices across our
country. That's how we can achieve reform that preserves and strengthens what's best about
our health care system, while fixing what is broken.

The plans you are discussing embody my core belief that Americans should have better
choices for health insurance, building on the principle that if they like the coverage they have
now, they can keep it, while seeing their costs lowered as our reforms take hold. But for those
who don't have such options, I agree that we should create a health insurance exchange -- a

more

(OVER)
2

market where Americans can one-stop shop for a health care plan, compare benefits and prices,
and choose the plan that's best for them, in the same way that Members of Congress and their
families can. None of these plans should deny coverage on the basis of a preexisting condition,
and all of these plans should include an affordable basic benefit package that includes
prevention, and protection against catastrophic costs. I strongly believe that Americans should
have the choice of a public health insurance option operating alongside private plans. This will
give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep
insurance companies honest.

I understand the Committees are moving towards a principle of shared responsibility --
making every American responsible for having health insurance coverage, and asking that
employers share in the cost. I share the goal of ending lapses and gaps in coverage that make us
less healthy and drive up everyone's costs, and I am open to your ideas on shared responsibility.
But I believe if we are going to make people responsible for owning health insurance, we must
make health care affordable. If we do end up with a system where people are responsible for
their own insurance, we need to provide a hardship waiver to exempt Americans who cannot
afford it. In addition, while I believe that employers have a responsibility to support health
insurance for their employees, small businesses face a number of special challenges in affording
health benefits and should be exempted.

Health care reform must not add to our deficits over the next 10 years -- it must be at
least deficit neutral and put America on a path to reducing its deficit over time. To fulfill this
promise, I have set aside $635 billion in a health reserve fund as a down payment on reform.
This reserve fund includes a number of proposals to cut spending by $309 billion over
10 years --reducing overpayments to Medicare Advantage private insurers; strengthening
Medicare and Medicaid payment accuracy by cutting waste, fraud and abuse; improving care
for Medicare patients after hospitalizations; and encouraging physicians to form "accountable
care organizations" to improve the quality of care for Medicare patients. The reserve fund also
includes a proposal to limit the tax rate at which high-income taxpayers can take itemized
deductions to 28 percent, which, together with other steps to close loopholes, would raise
$326 billion over 10 years.

I am committed to working with the Congress to fully offset the cost of health care
reform by reducing Medicare and Medicaid spending by another $200 to $300 billion over the
next 10 years, and by enacting appropriate proposals to generate additional revenues. These
savings will come not only by adopting new technologies and addressing the vastly different
costs of care, but from going after the key drivers of skyrocketing health care costs, including
unmanaged chronic diseases, duplicated tests, and unnecessary hospital readmissions.

To identify and achieve additional savings, I am also open to your ideas about giving
special consideration to the recommendations of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission
(MedPAC), a commission created by a Republican Congress. Under this approach, MedPAC's
recommendations on cost reductions would be adopted unless opposed by a joint resolution
of the Congress. This is similar to a process that has been used effectively by a commission
charged with closing military bases, and could be a valuable tool to help achieve health care
reform in a fiscally responsible way.

These are some of the issues I look forward to discussing with you in greater detail in
the weeks and months ahead. But this year, we must do more than discuss. We must act. The
American people and America's future demand it.

I know that you have reached out to Republican colleagues, as I have, and that you have
worked hard to reach a bipartisan consensus about many of these issues. I remain hopeful that
many Republicans will join us in enacting this historic legislation that will lower health care
costs for families, businesses, and governments, and improve the lives of millions of Americans.
So, I appreciate your efforts, and look forward to working with you so that the Congress can
complete health care reform by October.

Sincerely,

BARACK OBAMA

# # #

solutions. This could be fixed like this. Pressure Nancy Pelosi to allow John Conyers plan HR 676 to come to the floor for debate. It's the plan to extend Medicare to all. He can do this and Nancy would be hard pressed not to honor a request from the President who is also of her party. Then he needs to pressure Harry Reid the same way for the Senate plan by Bernie Sanders. The number escapes me right now. The debate has to be had out in the open with all interested parties present. If not, it's doomed to failure. When the House and Senate come up with plans acceptable to all, then he needs to not veto it. This is how our government is supposed to work, not behind closed doors in meetings where only some parties are allowed a seat at the crafting of a plan.

I strongly believe that Americans should have the choice of a public health insurance option operating alongside private plans.

Hopefully, Baucus won't prevail over Obama and Kennedy on this critical point.

Get your thumbs out of your asses and fucking DO something!

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande?yrail
in the "best practices" and Mayo Clinic comments.

In the paragraph in the Pres's letter about reducing costs for Medicare, I wonder why the most obvious one isn't mentioned (which also had a prominent place in his healthcare plan during the campaign): Negotiating the costs of prescription drugs. It's almost a glaring omission.

The letter is ok in that it is straightforward about the need for a public option - the devil will be in the details. The public option needs to be open to anyone who wants it, regardless of their current coverage and regardless if coverage is offered by their current employment, the option needs to be fully funded and subsidized (not reliant on premiums only as Schumer is craftily proposing), and the option needs to be accepted by all or the majority of healthcare providers.

People are paying attention and the change in the tone and content of the government's response from the top down is very telling.

Baucus's comment that it's "too late" to have single payer in the discussion is beyond insulting. The only reason it would be "too late" is because he already decided on "never" at the FIRST INSTANT. It would have always been "too late" to get on Baucus' agenda.

free market modle.

AIG for president!

cut to getting rid of Medicare.

Do not ever forget a Conservative is a Conservative, irregardless of
a D or an R after their name. Conservatives do not believe in
"Government Programs, Social Programs".

Always Always--GOP uses REFORM as code for dismantling programs.

Please tell our Democrats on the Hill that sometimes no deal is
much better than a bad deal.

Through the years the Dems roll over for Republicans to get their
way. Hope this is not happening once again.

No public option-= Medicare gone.---Just watch.

No Deal is better than a bad deal.

UPDATE 2: Conyers, Grijalva, and Edwards Write to Hoyer

Representative Steny H. Hoyer
House Democratic Majority Leader
H-107, The Capitol
Washington D.C. 20515

Dear Majority Leader Hoyer,

We appreciate the time you took to meet with Representatives Edwards, Cohen, Cleaver, and ourselves, along with Tim Carpenter from Progressive Democrats of America, Michael Lighty and Donna Smith from the California Nurses Association. We look forward to advancing, in your eloquent words, “robust, deep debate on single-payer,” in the House of Representatives during the 111th Congress.

We know health reform legislation is moving forward quickly, and we are concerned that the exclusion of single-payer from consideration by Congress would prohibit an informed policy discussion about true health reform. Given that more than 60% of Americans are in favor of national health insurance and that HR 676, the single payer non- profit universal health care bill, has the support of 78 House Members and, it is crucial that this perspective be part of this historic debate. HR 676 has also been endorsed by over 15,000 doctors, two former editors of the New England Journal of Medicine, 40 State AFL-CIO organizations, the U.S. Conference of Mayors, and the American Public Health Association. Clearly, there is much that can be learned from having an objective and substantive discussion on the merits of national health insurance.

Additionally, we would appreciate if you would inform us of whom you have designated to coordinate the bi-weekly meetings on single-payer, which you thought would be useful for Members and other health policy experts. Our staff would like to work with your office to help facilitate these meetings. Keeping these discussions structured and focused will be critical to their success in terms of addressing the lack of information available to Congressional members on the single-payer healthcare option.

Thank you for meeting with us on this important and timely issue and for agreeing that single-payer healthcare advocates should take part in the healthcare reform discussion.

Sincerely,

John Conyers, Jr., Raul Grijalva, Donna Edwards
Members of Congress

option operating alongside private plans. This will
give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep
insurance companies honest. "

So he's admitting they're not honest now and can't be trusted - yet he wants them involved in any "reform". The only way that makes sense is if the real objective is to protect the for profits.

We need access to health care, not access to health insurance.

It's time to get off our asses.



It's time to get serious.

General Strike sounds right!

his fealty to the insurance companies who own him. He just had the single payers in because he was getting hit at home by voters for his actions. I doubt also he wants the arrested to come to a public trial, so that is phony as well.

What are the Montana state laws regarding recall elections? :grr:

fucking fascist pricks forcing people to pay a bunch of crooks who continuously gouge and harm people's lives by not covering medical expenses. I would like nothing more than to shackle these fuckers in cage and toss the damn thing into the ocean. At least they'd be useful as food for deep sea fish and crustaceans.

... if by a certain date, if single payer is not on the table and put to a public vote?

Maybe that will get their attention. I believe as the payers of health for profit, we got some power here.

Does anyone here have experience and know how to get such a petition started?

that baucas didn't want everyone to have to use a single payer.that there would be a public option for poor people that sounds o.k. to me unless someone is lying about it

Did the clerk actually use that term?

And I object to trying to label and limit it like that. The public option should be open to anyone who chooses to participate in it, and it should have nothing to do with current coverage.


It also SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO with being either poor, wealthy, employed or unemployed. Keeping the public option open to anyone is what will make the insurance companies even attempt to compete.

sick to death of for profit insurance companies and paying those blood suckers for the privilege of being screwed over by them. I would gladly pay into a public program to get the hell away from BCBS of TN.

I would also gladly continue my exorbitant fees, if I knew it was going to help spread health care to people such as those as my husband who was declined due to health reasons, rather than the ability to pay.

Hell forget that, what am I saying? Actually, I'd rather make my whole payment, knowing it was going to folks for their health care who aren't able to pay, rather than to those GOD DAMN UNCARING, for PROFIT ONLY, BLOOD SUCKERS. And that's for sure!

THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY OF US, THEY JUST WANT TO LINE THEIR POCKETS.

AND i DON'T AND WON'T APOLOGIZE FOR CAPS OR FOR DAMN WELL SCREAMING!!!

The truth is, most of all of us, would rather see the excesses in our inflated payments help out another human being than line the filthy bedding of those for profit!

bastards, but I was trying to be polite. Scum sucking bastards is mentioned in my household a lot, too. The bankers and 'bright guys' on Wall Street are referred to as vultures and sewer rats, and I mean no disrespect for those creatures in nature.

If you've seen Sicko you can relate to this, I had a serious illness that I was treated for in a timeframe of 2 yrs. We damned near went bankrupt for the crap that BCBS didn't think they needed to pay for, etc.

We've had to fight with them over paying for strep throat and treatment for our kids. And they have a nasty habit of paying claims and then a couple of years later send a statement that 'after an internal audit' they were charging back payments they'd already made.

I've thought about it long and hard and I don't think that it would cost that much more with what is already paid, copays, deductibles, and I think that if more people understood this and that they would have quality care without the possibility of facing bankruptcy it would be a no brainer. For profit health care sucks.

Of course, if we didn't spend so much on military conflict this could have been paid for years ago, but that's another matter.

We need to cancel our health insurance coverage and drive the insurers into bankruptcy.

Single Payer

OR

We all stop 'writing' those checks to the blood suckers each month.

How they going to deal w it, when Everyone starts showing up at the ER and the health for profit are defunct?

May then our elected official will have no choice
but to hear us.

Hmm, Hmm, Hmm.

"They'll all be sorry when I'm dead."

We aren't going to join all together to drink their Kool-Aid,
but we are going to join together as a pact, a mean pack
and we are going to be very effective and a major force to be reckoned with.

:kick:

He used Vietnam, equal rights and women vote as examples. Health care is a human civil rights issue.

wrong.

Texas should become their own countries...cuz I'm sick of them setting the rules that I live by.

Fuck Baucus....never.

Dear Mr. President,

I just read this:

"Senator Max Baucus met Wednesday with advocates for single-payer healthcare, including Senator Bernie Sanders, and told them that he might drop criminal charges against 13 people arrested for speaking up in his hearings, but that he would not include any supporters of single-payer health coverage in any future hearings. According to one report, Baucus suggested that he'd been mistaken to exclude single-payer but asserted that the process of creating healthcare reform legislation was too far along now to correct that omission."

_ _ _ _ _

Now, if this is true and Senator Baucus refuses to include a public or single payer option in his health care reform legislation - then it is NOT health care reform.

Mr. President, the ONLY way we will have real health care or health care "reform" in this country is if there is a single payer or a public (ie: Medicare for All) option offered.

Without that, why not just backburner "health care reform" until it can be done properly?

Allowing for-profit insurance companies to continue to collect premiums from individuals and businesses, while also continuing to deny care and inserting themselves where they do not belong - in between the patient and their doctor - is not health care and it is not health care reform.

My 80-something year old dad needs a drug called Procrit to live. His insurance company is once again refusing to pay for it. It costs several hundred dollars per dose.

They are forcing him to be re-tested and re-diagnosed to see "if he really needs it" - because they don't want to pay for it. For God's sake he needs this stuff to stay alive. His doctor already determined that at least once.

This is one example where insurance companies - though they collect billions in profits - are refusing vital care, procedures, medications to patients that their doctors ordered. Insurance companies are NOT qualified to make such decisions about patient care. That ought to be strictly between a doctor and the patient. NO insurance company has any business interfering in that. But they are, and people are dying because of it.

Health care should NOT be a "for-profit" industry! It is a basic human right - until steps are taken to correct that in this country - then we do NOT have health care or health care reform.

Let me share with you a quote I read last week that illustrates this point in stark reality:

"Insurance companies killed 20,000 Americans last year by denying care. Nearly 3,000 Americans were killed on 9/11 and we started two wars, spent trillions, killed over one million Iraqi civilians and allowed nearly 5,000 US troops to die because of it. But Insurance companies continue to profit without accountability."

What do you think about that Mr. President? People in the US are all about morality. How moral is this health care system we have here?

Do you have the political will to change this. REALLY change it? Because clearly Max Baucus does not. Here's why he doesn't:

Political Contributions to Max Baucus in 2008:

Pharmaceuticals/Health = $852,813
Health Professionals = $851,141
Insurance = $784,185
Lobbyists = $470,774
Hospitals/Nursing Homes = $466,826
Health Services/HMOs = $465,750

This is from opensecrets.org. We can get this information on anyone in our gov't. We know where their interests lie - and why.

I voted for you President Obama, but I am very concerned that if your administration and Congress cannot enact REAL health care reform, that you will not have a second term - and certainly Max Baucus will not be re-elected to his seat. I understand the people of Montana are quite upset with him over this.

Thanks for reading, once again,

Regards,

Great letter, fabulous. You wrote everything i would have said and wanted express to our President and more.

Can we sign on to your letter?

As supporters.

Please?

I'm sure Bernie can use it.

Great letter!

We're getting hosed on this deal. They won't even discuss the single payer option. I would love to see the insurance companies completely cut out of the equation, except perhaps for some elective procedures and rider policies. But that won't happen. They have everyone snowed on the cost of healthcare and they run the whole show.

In today's tough times, hospitals are having a harder time making money because of the increasing number of uninsured patients. People lose their jobs and drop out of the insurance pool, meaning the premiums have to go up for those who remain insured. Hospitals improve efficiency to increase reimbursement, which means the insurance companies have to lobby hard to set up new roadblocks and loopholes to get out of paying, but when they actually do see an increase in payouts to hospitals, the premiums go up again. The hospital will certainly be audited for somehow increasing reimbursement so much, which means more hours are spent defending the hospital, analyzing best practices, etc. And if there is some error, let's hope it's not a systemic error, because the hospital pays it back triple.

The argument against single payer is always the same: do you want a government agency making medical decisions for you rather than you or your doctor? Of course not. But how about a for-profit company playing by arbitrary rules that wants you alive and paying when you get a cold or need expensive maintenance drugs but wants you dead when you require expensive cancer treatment? I'll take the government any day.

But we won't see it from this administration or this congress. There is no will.

makes that politician worth a damn? Takers? Please, I curious - with frakking friends like these, who in the hell needs enemies?

giving money to or taking money from "for profit insurance companies?

Just a thought.... :shrug:

we could all put our heads together, and we could all, instead of being felt as we have no choice in this,
rise up and give a good ole wham o, slam o, right in the gizer to the health care for profit/blood suckers, exactly where it counts.

Wha

it would scare the fuck out of them.

Let's look in to the particulars.

Let's say there was a grace period, or so long before one was cancelled, or terminated, and if we all took that to the maximum, to send them a message at to 'who we are'.

I'm just not willing to roll over to whatever they say. Are you?

They are like Cable TV. I can stop paying for their service and eventually if we all do they will...either just go away...or offer something much better.

Just remember this.

They do not have the power, if we unite.

We do.

Who does he think he is.

Mr. Blowfish, who do you think you are???

Who do you think you are.

Mr. Blowfish..

Wait to what we have to tell you...

Come on now, you know we can all do this!

Don't you?

Mr. Blow Blowfish, you ain't magic all.

Not at all.

Mr. Blowfish.

if we take that position - then the insurance companies are in a win-win situation.

I am self-employed and pay just short of $12,000/year for Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Illinois and that is just for myself as I am unmarried and have no kids. That's insane. To add insult to injury - I do everything in my power to avoid using this insurance. I'm deathly afraid of "Pre-existing conditions" and won't subject myself to the system only to be denied at a later date.

We at least need a public/governmental option. Something that would allow me to dump BC/BS and save some money to boot. They also need to do away with "Pre-existing condition" clauses.

The money I save - I will probably spend for much needed goods - like a car, a dehumidifier, a microwave, a toaster, etc. Get the point - the money I save on health insurance would be put back into the economy to purchase goods that would hopefully put people to work to make. In a way - we could sell a this healthcare reform as a 'economic stimulus' package. It would also benefit corportations that have excessive healthcare costs for their employees.

I worry sometimes about Bernie Sanders. I listen to him on Thom Hartman's show and you always hear the same thing from him when someone asks him a question. He says - that's a good question - and you know I agree with you. But bottom line nothing ever gets done. As a died in the wool 'conspiracy theorist' I could buy into the fact that he is in the pocket of the health insurance companies as well. By him saying Single Payer or Nothing - puts the health insurance companies in a win-win situation - no challenge by anyone or anything. We lost out of the box.

I know I'll probably be flamed for my critique of Sanders - heresy right. Sorry - but I'm tired of hearing politicians agree with us - then either are ineffective in getting things done or do a 180 of what they just agreed with us on.

I have a story about Senator Kennedy as well. He's in the pocket of big pharma - and probably the health insurance companies as well. If he really wanted to have a legacy that would put him right up there with his brothers Jack and Bobby - then he would support a 'single payer' program. He's not a 'single payer' supporter - in my eyes - he's on the other side.

And he is right. If single payer is off the table we might has well delay the entire thing. Moderate changes written by health insurance companies will only stave off real reform and maybe for a long time. And real reform is the only answer. Single payer or nothing!

to happen. They love it. If that's what you want, you should go get it.

If you want the tax payers to make the insurance companies rich, then Max is your man. He got more money (1.8 million)last year than anyone else in both houses of congress.

The Reason Max says it's too late for Single Payer is because he's already cashed this years checks.

I expect whatever comes out of this process will be a lot like the 'prescription coverage' bill of a few years ago. The resulting legislation will be much more about protecting the insurance industries profits than it will be supplying health care to those that need and deserve it. Baucus is an arrogant jerk. What does he mean it is too late to solve it now? What a bunch of bull all he has to do is just what he said he won't do and that is include supporters of single-payer in the process. Sounds like to me he has made up his mind and doesn't want anybody else to have a say. He should be removed from his 'leadership' position (or should I say dictatorship position) as soon as possible. Obama talks about bipartisanship hell we can't even get people in the Democratic party to work together.

put out a letter that he wanted a Public Option on the table and that the republicans (like himself) would not go for it. He said people should have incentives for prevention and that incentives should go to insurance companies for better premiums.

What I got out of that was that President Obama wants a Public Option (may be Wyden's which stinks with a trigger) but Judd kept repeating that.

I just called Judd's DC office and told them that 2/3 of this country want a single payer option. That he is not listening to the people who pay his wage. That the insurance companies have killed people with their decisions to deny and we want no more for profit corporations overseeing our healthcare. That prevention is fine but there are millions who are sick right now and need coverage. That a single payer would work and be less expensive without the insurance companies involved stealing profits off the people for their investors. Enough! I said I know you won't let him know what I have said and she said twice she would.

Creeps. Single Payer NOW!

is to contact your senators and tell them, in strong language, that you want single payer on the table, and if they can't sway the debate to our favor you'll work to get someone in there who represents the the people, not the profiteers.
We give them our vote and the insurance lobby bribes them. We didn't elect a Democratic majority to ram the same failed polices down our throats that Republicans espouse.

If he's not up to the job, then stand aside!

The only option is single payer.

Going full speed ahead in the wrong direction because you just... can't... stop!!!

A public option will eventually lead to Single Payer. Insurance companies are not going to able to compete with a not-for profit insurer which has, if it's anything like Medicare, very low operating costs.

Town Hall my Ass!

I attended the fiasco called a Town Hall Meeting with Congressman** blumenauer and Dr. Howard Dean on Friday afternoon. The was the worst run “Town Hall” I have ever attended. At best it was a major screw up on the part of willie smith and the earlman and at worst was a planned shutout of any of the activists who support and are willing to fight for Single Payer. I was ashamed that I had spent 40 years in the democratic party, and was glad I finally left it in disappointment. This meeting was modeled after the bush/cheney idea of a Town Hall; control the tickets, load the place with party officials, and exclude any real people who might ask the hard questions. Willie Smith, you are a LIAR!

Lie: “Anything that gives a false impression.”

We were invited to the Town Hall by e-mail, we were told that blumenauer’s staff were overwhelmed by the response and had to have a lottery to pick for the tickets, we were told that they would let us know who won the lottery. Two days before the event we were told, “We” lost!

I say we, because the activists who are the leaders in Portland for Single Payer were excluded, any members of Individuals for Justice were excluded, and members of any protest group that are known were excluded. It is not possible to have a random lottery and come out with those results, the fix was in and heads should roll. But we can’t even get the earlman to call for the arrest of mass murderers, why would he apologize for screwing his base one more time. But there is good news.

From the reports coming out of the “Invited guest meeting” things heated up inside when Dr. Howard Dean recognized the noise outside the doors and acknowledged that the democratic party must move towards Single Payer. I was not inside so I am dependant on others for what was said. I know there will be video soon of the rigged event, so we shall see. The protest became sad when a wonderful, peaceful man named Harry was arrested by the campus police.

I call Harry a friend of mine, because he makes me proud when I stand and say enough! He has refused to surrender to police power on any level when his rights are challenged. Talking to him after his release it was obvious to me that once again a cop was asked by what law do you order me under and that caused Harry’s arrest. I hope he writes about his arrest, as this part of the event is his story. I am just proud to be around people who will stand and say---I am an American and you are not going to violate my rights without one hell of a fight, Thanks Harry!

We shall see how all this plays out, more and more people are coming to realize that our politicians are not representing our interests, but their own. They belong to a club that will never invite you or I to the table, they must be replaced, every goddamn one of them: blumenauer, wyden, wu, etc. etc. (give Merkley a few years of grace or not)

There will be more written about this event, this again is how I saw it. I did enjoy chasing willie smith around with my makeshift megaphone yelling, the best I could, Liar, willie you are a liar---you lie!

Some think that people who had tickets are also supporters of Single Payer, I disagree---if they supported our battle then they would be standing with us and not validating the rigged town hall manipulated by willie smith and the earlman! ENOUGH!

** Refuse to capitalize due to disrespect and/or disappointment

Joe Walsh-Lone Vet
VVAW-Veterans Against Torture
Individuals for Justice
American

and his support will make all the difference.