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One Aspect of Criminal Trials that puzzles me re: Character

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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:01 PM
Original message
One Aspect of Criminal Trials that puzzles me re: Character
Edited on Thu Jun-04-09 06:02 PM by Mike 03
Maybe for good reason, the Defense gets so many advantages when it comes to introducing character evidence.

A defendant in a criminal case can present a parade of character witnesses. I've seen this happen in some of the most horrific homicides you can imagine.

But sometimes I wonder, why can't the prosecution put on the stand witnesses to testify as to the pain the loss of the victim has caused the survivors?

Intellectually, I understand this is very prejudicial to the Defendant. But without that, it just seems too easy for the jurors to forget about the lives that have been lost or what they meant to the survivors.

On the upside, it is true that nowadays the family or loved ones of victims can testify at sentencing hearings.

Since I'm not an attorney, I don't feel qualified to opine on whether or not a prosecutor should be able to introduce evidence as to "what was lost" when a victim is killed in a heinous crime (or otherwise), but it is just a question that occurs to me from time to time.

As always, what others here at DU think about this matter is of great interest to me.


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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because
people are not allowed to give their opinions or second-hand observations when they testify.

It's in The Rules Of Evidence.

People can only testify to what they know, to facts in evidence. Not speculate as to what might have been, what was lost, etc.

The people have to work harder - it sometimes seems - than the defendant because they must overcome the presumption of innocence, but, character witnesses are used in sentencing hearings, not at trial...................
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Yes, you make sense.
It is true the burden is on the State.

This question is just rhetorical, but what if the defendant is very charismatic?
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. More often than not,
it's not a good idea to put your client - the defendant - on the stand. And a "charismatic" one is the most dangerous of all, since juries don't like "slick."

It's just not gonna work.

And the post I gave you is the result of lots of hard work as a lawyer over three+ decades. It's always an uphill battle against the presumption of innocence, but the rules of evidence run the trial .......................
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Because the accused is innocent until proven guilty
That fits in with that
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am not an attorney either.
But to have people testify to the character of a victim would be prejudicial since it implies that the defendant is guilty. Once found guilty however, people that know the victim can testify about the character of the victim during sentencing.

The trial is about what the defendant did, and the character of the victim would only be important if it has to do with some element of motive or some way making the case of the guilt or innocent of the defendant. But the character of the defendant, both good and bad, can show patterns of behavior that are relevant.
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NoGOPZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. The purpose of the trial is to determine guilt.
I'm not sure that the amount of pain has any bearing on the question of guilty or not guilty. The actual sentencing is another matter.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Yes, you are correct. NT
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. the prosecutor has to prove, with evidence, that the defendant committed the crime.
the burden of proof is on the prosecution. The defense can try to destroy the evidence, and they can present witnesses as to the defendant's character and such. If the jury finds the defendant guilty, then during the sentencing phase after a guilty verdict the victims of the crime can usually speak. They can talk about what the crime has done to them and the judge can then decide the sentence.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Yes, all of you are making perfect sense. It just took me some time to figure this out. Thank
you. NT
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't agree with allowing the family or loved ones of victims to testify...
Edited on Thu Jun-04-09 06:17 PM by mitchum
at sentencing hearings. Loss is loss.
I have always thought that is dangerously close to tribalism. And renders some members of the tribe more valuable than others.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Hear, hear!
I've railed against that from the beginning. So have a lot of other attorneys.

It's a joke, you know, when you consider, in a murder trial, the "victim" of the crime is dead.

Bringing in families at sentencing hearing is nothing but cheap theatrics and, in my opinion, inordinately prejudicial.

It's the "Oprah Effect," we call it. Everyone wants their time at the microphone, the center stage, if only for a few moments......................
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. The trail should be about whether that person (defendant) committed the crime.
Evidence and character about the defendant is all relevant to whether he committed the crime.

How is how sorely missed the victim will be relevant to whether he committed the crime?

At sentencing, however, this victim information is sometimes allowed.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Gee... open season on the homeless?
Let's go out and kill people who're friendless, huh?

Dumb. :eyes:
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Wow, that was unkind. NT
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Don't be so touchy ........
I'll be your friend...........

:hug:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Well... I'll remember that if I ever kill someone.
:evilgrin:

Somehow, the notion that "the defendant has so many advantages" just short-circuited my brain pan.

:crazy:

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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yeah, those damn defendants -
did you know that almost all of them get FREE ROOM AND BOARD before their trials?

AND DURING THE TRIALS, TOO!!!

Yeah. They do.

It's true.

I've seen it with my own eye...............

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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. I see your points, thank you.
At sentencing, though, it is appropriate to introduce such opinions?

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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Nah, you are right. The "virtue" of the victim is not something that should be put before the
jury.

Besides, a lot of times it gets in by virtue of the fact that the prosecution will call "loved ones" (parents) to the stand and they will express their emotions for the loss.

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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. I think it's because the trial is about giving the defendant due process
It's like a defendant's right to a speedy trial. The State must prove the crime, not the defendant so the defendant can bring whatever he/she needs to make him/her look innocent. In other words the defendant is innocent so the families only get to come forth after he/she is convicted and proved to be guilty.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-04-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yeah, what you are saying makes perfect sense.
It just took me some time to think about it to understand why it does.

You are right, as are the other posters here.

Thanks.

I was just asking.
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