The ludricrousness of the shower argument when it comes to gays

If you think you haven't showered in view of or undressed in view of, a gay person of the same gender it is highly unlikely. Let's take some numbers.

Suppose you took PE for at least 4 years in middle and high school in a class of 24. Further suppose that you have a turn over of 6 people per year. That would be 24 + 18 for a total of 42 people that you would have at least changed in view of if not showered in wiew of. If we assume that Kinsey was correct and 10% of people are gay, then 90% would not be. Thus the probability of one of those students being straight would be .9. Under the multiplication rule of probability, we obtain the probability of all 42 of those people being straight by taking .9^42 or about .01. If we use the standard 6% that has recently taken hold we would need .94^42 or about .07. This would only be PE, not cub scout camps, no sports, no girl scout retreats, no band camps, etc. In short, it is quite unlikely a gay person of your gender hasn't seen you undress and been able to keep his or her hands to him or her self. Or to sum up, We Just Aren't That Into You.

I don't know why people are so worried about this. Easy fix.

And, to paraphrase my wife Haruka: why is it always straight men freaking out about this, and never straight women?

I have no doubt I've been in situations like that. First of all, I'm not going to flatter myself that anyone was checking me out; second, nobody ever came on to me; third, being gay doesn't automatically make one a sexual predator. But somehow, heterosexual predation gets a pass from the homophobes...

This straight guy can't wait until we have civil rights for ALL!

I'm just sayin'...

I apolgize -- I didn't mean all straight guys! Just in general.

I've known one or two very homophobic women, but not anywhere near as many. And yes, I do think a lot of times it happens with people who are less-than-secure about their own sexuality, and maybe even confused about how sexy they are.

In other words, it's the people who assume that anyone and everyone secretly wants them. These are the same type of guys who can't take a hint even when it's clearly obvious, and I often wonder if they are secretly disappointed when they don't get hit on.

And yes, I have known more a couple of gay men who used to be very homophobic in high school or whenever, as well as some who still are homophobic on some level but will drunkenly hit on other men (as a "joke" usually...)

It all really makes me kind of sad, really, that people are so oppressed by their environment that they are afraid to be themselves. In a similar vein, men and women have some fucked up standards about how men are supposed to behave/dress in society, and those are often reinforced by members of their own gender who may be jealous of those who have the strength, security, and sense of self to be free from those roles.

I do think things are changing for the better. When I was in high school, it was almost unheard of to be out, and now it's getting so common in many areas that most of my younger friends don't even understand why it's even an issue. This gives me hope that things are changing for the better.

...I am flattered when ANYONE finds me attractive...regardless of gender or species.

since you did say species, do you get an ego boost?

I knew a straight woman with that attitude and the argument actually makes me laugh. I sit there listening to the argument and while doing so picture myself in a shower with a bunch of buxom ladies in which I play the role of the 'shower mistress' and... well it would make a great cheesy lesbian romance novel (or porn) but that's about it. :rofl:

I swear these people are so worried about us randomly popping out of the shadows to molest them it boarders on psychotic. They do not live in reality.

that gay folks are somehow more likely to sexually assault or harass straight folks. As a straight woman, I don't feel threatened by lesbians. I can say "Thank you, but I'm married" as easily to a woman as I can to a man.

Women don't seem to get hyper about this, and they share plenty of lcoker rooms, saunas, and showers with each other, even as adults.

:thumbsup:

ETA: I don't think all straight guys are freaked out about male nudity, whether it's seeing it or being seen nekkid. CMW's a good example. However, I've known plenty who were absolutely skeeved by the thought -- or pretended to be.

I get damned tired of ignorance, mean-spiritedness and irrational fear.

He's being annoying on purpose when he says that, but it's true. He also thinks Johnny Depp is a good looking man. He is very straight, just not uptight!

And, this is literal: he was raised by hillbillies with fifth grade educations, in the crazy part of NC.

people eager to discriminate that gay people are somehow oversexed, that their sex lives are much more active and even overactive than we "normal" people. Once they're able to wrap their brains around the idea that people are just people, and the gay gal next to you might just have a very ordinary life... it gets harder to discriminate or fear.

And yeah - "no thanks" works as easily with a woman as with a man!

...

And when the violent ones act out their hatred they're striking out at the fear that they have of their own attraction.

It's sickening.

:D

Long live the Ritz!


What is their problem?

concerned that some guy would make a pass at me...it was that my pecker always looked so TINY.

:spank:

she and I did everything together, including sleep in the same bed. we were friends. she knew I was straight, I knew she was gay, she NEVER tried to seduce me, jesus, we were like sisters. we talked and giggled into the night and told each other about our romantic interests...the guy i was seeing, the girl she was seeing...we cried when our hearts were broken and laughed when they werent..
its just a matter of education isnt it..people recognizing that many of their friends, family and neighbours are gay, have been gay, always will be gay, and who cares? Its just a change in perspective.
Your OP is great! and says it like it is.

cleaned up. Why would I care who else is in there?

Seems to me the guys worried about this have some sort of other issue going on. Maybe they believe, in their heart of hearts, that they wouldn't be able to resist some other guy coming on to them. Oddly, I don't remember any guy coming on to me in a shower. Ever.

It would seem that the homophobic mind is also prone to otherworldly levels of self-importance and vanity.

I'm a gym rat so an almost daily shower at my gym is the norm. I know several men there are gay. I've trained a couple of them, worked out with a couple of them. Showered with all of them at one point or another, as well as (I'm sure) many, many others. Matter of fact, not just shared a large shower space, but showered (egads!) right next to them, while speaking with them, etc.

And you know, I just couldn't care less. I think that argument is total BS. Maybe straight men making that argument are too busy projecting what they think their shitty behavior might be in a situation where they're showering with 10 naked women. That's just my guess.

I have been a member of nudist clubs for over 20 years. We always shower coed. Some women even shave their privates in the coed shower. No one has ever been attacked or raped in the shower.

I think something similar occurs when a gay man or woman is in a shower with the same sex. It just doesn't cause people to go ape shit and attack people!

Isn't that against the Geneva conventions?

The tack now from hate-wing Amerika is not just showers; it's that gays could get shot or blown-up and bleed everywhere causing exposure to HIV, look...

This *is* the new meme out there, a caller from yesterday concluded that it was "A FACT" that the majority of HIV cases are within the gay community...that is not a fact at all. I'm beginning to feel they consider it a form of compound interest, but the ignorance level is BTW *surpassed* everyday by the hate-wing, if you wanna grab something grab your own ass it's going to be a very bumpy ride

I don't see a problem. :shrug: