THEY USED A CHOPPER???? And CALI is in a slight economic crisis

sorry for the bitch... but they used a large helicopter to transport to the coroners?

I understand the need to do the autopsy... but choppers are not particularly cheap to run.

I know, I know they want to avoid the media circus... but as a taxpayer I am a tad dumbfounded by that.

And the press is chasing with news helicopters, the first, that I remember, honest to goodness CHOPPER chase.

Huh????

:shrug:

i doubt the crowd would have let the ambulance through...

MJ did not request the chopper...

Am I right?

:shrug:

MJ's body being followed by a 10-mile long line of traffic? It could have congested a large part of the city.

went to the coroner, but I'm not sure...

to the Coroner's office

I once was a "ground pilot" for rescue... a Bell 100 back in the 1980s had an operational cost of 20,000 \hour, back in the day.

This is a large bird.. it is NOT cheap to run... we don't have that much money.

And yes we have an honest to goodness chopper chase.

I suppose you'll deny him coverage?

by crowds.

...watching the crowds gather. That and people could easily be hurt trying to get to the van through traffic.

The chopper was brilliant.

how many do you think would be chasing a van on the ground? Just transporting him across the city could tie up traffic for hours, costing the city hundreds of thousands of dollars.

It's a reasonable expense.

and there will be precautions taken, like this one in cases like this

a van would have to get through large crowds of emotional people. How many cop cars would it need as an escort? How many cops on the ground? Do you think their services are free? Gee, Nadin, I thought you were the big rescue expert. Clue: this was a reasonable decision that took into account public safety.

the same...

:-)

And there are ways to do it without calling attention to themselves

without anyone knowing. Can you say paparazzi?

Helicopter was the only option.

and yes as a Californian I have a right to bitch of what at least to me is a misuse of resources on multiple grounds

you should be aware that any vehicle carrying his body would be going nowhere with those crowds. Should that have attached his body to a Kite, or maybe a human sling shot?

But they could also have cut up his body and attached little pieces to carrier pigeons who all fly to the coroner's office, where the NTSB puts them all together again.

I suppose you would have been happy to see the coroner's van mobbed and his body pulled out and mashed by grief-stricken and somewhat insane fans. I live in LA. I can pretty much guarantee something of the sort would have happened. And then how much do you suppose the city would have been sued by the family for?

a helicoptor does seem excessive. And wasn't he having financial problems? The county may have to get in line behind the other creditors.

If they had used a van the roads would have to be blocked off and there would be huge traffic jams.

The helicopter was actually the best call IMHO.

Doug D.

poor either. If there weren't deep pockets, he would have been transported by ambulance. I don't think the taxpayer is paying for it.

It was the right decision.

Public health care related emergency services in LA are billed to insurance and other payers, including individuals if there is no other payer. This means life guards, ambulances and hospitals. The county or city only eat what wasn't paid, or at least that was the way it was when I lived there. UCLA Medical Center charges for everything to somebody. I think the County Hospital and Coroners services are charged to the taxpayer. I don't think the state is even involved in these services.

The state stands to earn additional tourist income, depending on how big a production the arrangements are.
People will come from all over the world.

spite of all the money and wealth here, very little of that money is getting into the Treasury. It started with Ronald Reagan when he was governor and has continued up through Arnold, who doesn't have the brains or will to tax the wealthy as part of their privilege of living here. Did you see the estate he was renting for $100,000 a month? The owner of that estate and the many estates surrounding that estate are only paying 1% property tax.

Does anyone regret booting Grey? .. I had wanted to move to CA for years. Until Arnie got the office. Ick.

delivered a coup by the Bush White House. Yet, because of the media and the heavy Republican panzer machine, they just steam rolled over us.

Very sad day for California.

who were monitoring all of this, we could only do this in our county, which really has a small population and is mostly rural.

...the County Coroner ordered the autopsy ~~ the family did not request it. Therefore, the cost of the autopsy and the transportation is on the County.

We don't know who requested the ambulance either air or ground. If it was the county, maybe they figured it was cheaper than a police escort to USC County hospital, but knowing how the LA bureaucrats work, I think they made an arrangement with the family.

Seems to me that I heard MJ died millions in debt.

:rofl:

they treated the body with dignity, don't expect less from pros... but as a taxpayer, this looks like a misuse of resources

You are aware they will start to pay with IOUs right?

This is what so galling

If they thought they needed to use a chopper I am sure the fleet has SMALLER birds too.

Now as to him, what is important is that a mother and a father will be burying a son... brothers and sisters will put their brother to rest, and good friends will do as well. The rest of us are just gawkers.

But at the moment the news is not paying attention to anything else.

Nothing is from the state. As a matter of fact the only thing the county is paying for is the facilities at County Hospital and the coroner. UCLA will bill the estate. The helicopter crowd will bill the estate. It's all paid for and none of it out of state money.

I live in LA County AND LA City and you don't hear me whining about it. I have a tiny bit of common sense and I happen to know that celebrity-obsessed people in this city are for the most part stupid and thoughtless and completely insane. Ground transport would not be secure, and his remains have just as much right to be secure as yours or mine.

Write to Arnold and ask him for a refund of your personal share of the expense. Even if the state did pay, they didn't buy the helicopter specially for him. Pilot and fuel to go across LA probably cost a few thousand at most - as somoene pointed out, far less than an evening of traffic jams would.

fucking helicopter ride, mmmmmmkay?

How petty.

IOU's

Because ONE FUCKING HELICOPTER RIDE isn't going to break that state off the continental shelf and push it into the ocean.

What is this? The princess and the pea?

TRIAGE.

Maximizing Resources.

Then tell me as tax payer I don;t have a right to question this use of resources.

It will be more expensive to move him by ground because they will have to block the whole route off like he was the President and the cost to California and the inconvenience to motorists would be far worse.

Get over it and quit your belly-aching.

Doug D.

I wouldn't want to drive a vehicle through a mob of nut jobs. Hell, they'd probably grab the carcass and divvy it up for souvenirs.

I don't think it is just "media circus"--it's a safety issue.

....the County ordered the autopsy ~~ the family did not request it. Therefore, the transportation is on the tab of L.A. County.

I bet drivers are extremely happy.

Unless they are suspecting something...

that they need to do that NOW... aka the autopsy.

It just didn't make sense to me

Also you really think the crowd is going anywhere anytime soon?

Not likely.

not that much better

do not owe you (or me) an explanation. His death is still under investigation. They can transport remains in their custody by any means they damned well choose. I can guarantee you, city attorneys have already weighed in on this decision.

...I was on the 40-fucking-5 at rush hour.

It would have been a hazard and a circus.

at this time of day.

No, they are trying to avoid the media... and now the media knows to run to USC...

On the bright side, we had the first chopper chase I have ever seen in me life

... they have reporters all over the place.

It was about using as few vehicles as possible.

If they had waited until dark, that would have given lookie-loos that much more time to clog the streets around two major medical centers--bad idea.

This was the fastest and most efficient way to do it, even considering the cost.

Sorry, but people are fucking weird and trphy hunting when it comes to dead famous people runs rampant in Southern CA.

I suspect the authorities thought it would be cheaper to transport the body this way rather than having police to control the crowds and media frenzy. And I'll bet his estate will get the bill.

I don't like it either.

:wtf:

:shrug:

The man's death, his body was treated with dignity. But as a taxpayer, yes I pay for that chopper indirectly, I can question what seems like a misuse of resources.

Maybe I should cry over it?

Damn it... don't get people any more

to me.

it is security, traffic and all that... but ... I don't know

be sprouting maggots by the time they got there.

It's clear that you don't understand the traffic situation in this place.

packing the streets in the area, it may as well be. Hell, probably worse than a Friday.

You have to live in Los Angeles to understand. Sigh.

Hell, I'm not working tomorrow, how would I know? Sure seemed like a Friday today.

down to LAX to rendezvous for dinner with my niece during her 7 hour layover between flights (she's off to Oz for some conference). I am taking the Flyaway Bus, because I find the drive too stressful anymore. I am not sure if I will actually ever get there, Friday on the 405 being what it is. But I'll try.

Just sit back and let someone else drive.

Sepulveda Pass down to the Marina Fwy. Can't remember the last time it went over 3 mph, lol.

I work at home so it's entirely possible that I could lose track of that day of the week like that! But now it IS Friday ;)

HOURS, and you may never actually get where you are going. Ask me how I know, lol.

more than me. :blush:

That little trip took at least an hour and a half

It's an hour in normal afternoon traffic. Friday afternoon rush, with media and the paparazzi all driving like maniacs to get shots?? Would be a 5mph ordeal with many safety concerns. Helo was the right call.

They sure got that body into the coroner's van quickly. He'll now be escorted by more than a few tax payer vehicles. That said he earned this more than Bush and Cheney.

chopper to begin with

As to how fast they moved... that is SOP... you really want to give dead bodies their dignity.

Well, you could, but the public might find that a bit outrageous.

some limp-dick talking about how the 'wash struck him.

Jeezuss....

Hey, Nadine....

You know....

so this is just unfrigging amazing to me

Welcome to DU

Mother of God. Go give fifty bucks to a charity in his name. Help somebody. Let the man be.

resources by the County of Los Angeles

There are ways they could have done that... sorry.

I realize that people like to personalize this... but reality is, that as a taxpayer it is galling to me that they used one of the most expensive birds in the fleet to do this.

There are ways this could have been done.

Now apparently people think this is about MJ... it is not. It is about the MISUSE of resources and as a tax payer I have a RIGHT TO BITCH about THAT.

it is a weird place whenever royalty dies...

Meanwhile the men in the shadows profit

And yes as a Taxpayer I have a right to bitch about the use of the chopper, this is NOT, I REPEAT NOT about him... but the use of the chopper

Now if he had been alive and they did a transport to a higher level facility, by all means, that is what Rescue 5 does.

to block off the route between the hospital and the coroner's office - it would cost far more than a five minute ride by helicopter. Grow up and stop creating a NONTROVERSY.

Doug D.

It would be far more expensive than a 5 minute helicopter ride.

Doug D.

about this sort of thing. There are times when you simply cannot get from "here" to "there" on the ground.

I want a jazz funeral, coffin climbers, old lovers jumping off of bridges, a solid gold box with mink lining, and a cadre of weeping, sobbing, HOWLING men in black flinging themselves in front of my hearse. By Gawd if I have to die I want it to HURT y'all sons o' b's that are still breathing! And I'll give MJ that same respect with the awestruck nod that he can actually GET it.

O8)

On this thread she is an expert at LA traffic patterns during rush hour.

Help! Someone help me keep up!

I can guarantee you that only Michael Jackson fan's tax dollars are footing the bill. Your tax dollars are going towards libraries and solar energy.

I must have struck a nerve here

And she (?) is one of the more informative posters on DU, IMHO.

California is getting ready to give out IOUs in lieu of monetary payments, money is a huge and touchy subject there right now.

But, seriously, you begrudge a person who's impacted millions, this? No one will ever give a shit about my demise, but I'm willing to cut the city of LA a little slack on this. C'mon.

fans/others would rip him from the van and tear him to pieces... get a fuckin' grip. (please)

Wait a few hours and 90% will go home..and/or use a different exit.

His estate will be billed. The County of Los Angeles will pay for any expenses regarding the morgue and coroner. The state isn't paying anything unless Jackson is a pauper. UCLA is a state run university, but after Reagan became governor, it gets hardly any money from the state so they bill everyone. I know. My mother worked at the Medical Center from the time they used to take care of people, who were indigent, until they couldn't and had to start asking for insurance cards like everyone else.

I'll choose to wait to see the scanned image of the invoice. Thanks.

The billing offices of the services involved definitely won't because of patient confidentiality. But use your common sense. City services are city services, County services are county services. State services are state services. That doesn't mean they won't bill you.

Let me give you a personal example. Years ago when I used to roller skate on the beach between Santa Monica and Venice Beach, I had to eat pavement somewhere on Venice Beach to avoid hitting an old person. I had left my husband sucking a beer in a roadside cafe in Santa Monica beach. I remember waking up to some life guards trying to revive me and wiping up blood. Also because I was wearing shorts and a tank top, I had no ID. To make this story short, they called the police, who called an ambulance, that hauled me to the ER at Santa Monica hospital. I got my face cleaned up and stitches on my face, scars I still have today, and xrays to make sure I hadn't any cracks in my skull. (There were no MRIs then). I tried to get them to call my husband and leave a message on our phone machine. A nurse did that. (We didn't have cell phones then.) My husband got worried that I hadn't come back and contacted the beach police. They managed to hook us up and he was able to bring my ID to the hospital to get me released. About then he had to give them all our information.

The only thing free were the the lifeguards and police. Our insurance and we got billed for everything else, even though the ambulance and hospital were publicly funded and operated by the city.

as a Law Enforcement/Authorities preference not a family choice. To use your own real-life example I dont think they would have billed you for that large helicopter ride to hospital if you were in no condition to approve it before hand.

any right to dignity in death. The officials in charge obviously made a decision. Quite honestly, I used to live in LA and we rub elbows with our celebrities quite often. They shop and eat and go to the beach where we do. We give them their space. They aren't our enemies. I live two hundred miles up north and we have celebrities here too who own property and who wander amongst us. Yet we know that if they die or if something weird happens that there will be unusual media attention and perhaps danger to the rest of us. You see when the authorities are protecting the celebrities, they are also protecting the rest of us from crazy people.

ways of dealing with the situation...like wait til 9PM . I have nothing against MJ. I just didnt like my tax dollars being , in my opinion , wasted.

..are you my ex-wife?

/sarc off

You wanna get married for nostalgia's sake?

:evilgrin:

Thanks for the laugh..no hard feelings.

:hi:

It only proves that she doesn't know what the hell she is talking about.

As you and I know, anyone that has spent any significant time in CA would not call it that.

Therefore, we can now discern that all of her unsubstantiated claims about LA traffic, handwringing over taxes and this entire OP are bullshit flamebait.

And no one but people with time to kill worryin about trivia like this does either....

Christ you could probably pay for the thing with the electricity you have wasted starting this piece of garbage thread!!!

Probably safer than having reporters and the general public try to block the hearse into a corner and get to his body. Also cheaper and safer than trying to do crowd control.

Washington State to a hospital in Spokane. It was the only way to get him to an ER quick enough and the chopper paramedics took care of his immediate problems. Nobody asked me for insurance cards and stuff like that until I was able to get there hours later driving. We had to pay. It wasn't free. I found out afterwards that the helicopter ambulance was a regular and essential service for all the scattered ranchers, farmers, and loggers in the vast Washington State Palouse. Many of the tiny communities, which were also spread apart by distances and hours, had a small clinic, sometimes with a doctor, but mostly with a nurse who acted as a first stop station. Think "Northern Exposure". But they had this efficient system of delivering critical patients to big city hospitals in Spokane and Seattle throughout the state.

I bet you can figure it out.

a special request and paid for it? Seriously. People jump to way too many conclusions.

And it may have been done because it was cheaper than all the extra police security needed for ground transport.

That was EXACTLY what I was thinking!! Why is it that the Uber rich somehow get super special attention that always requires tons of public service dollars, and yet when we talk about making them pay a much higher tax rate (for JUST THIS REASON) people object???

Same thing how all the big companies give freebies to the Rich & Famous, or comp their dinners, etc.

SICKENING!!!

The only expense will be the coroner, which is the same for everyone, even the homeless guy who died in an alley. The estate will be billed for everything else.

:hi:

You realize that don't you?

That's kind of like complaining about a leaky faucet while your home is flooding.

As for the throngs of people gathering in the streets to get a glimpse of the body or just to get themselves in front of television cameras? Not exactly California's shining moment in the sun, I must say.

:eyes:

considering the idiot fans out there. The hospital probably wanted him moved ASAP to get rid of the crowds. AND the estate will most likely be billed by the city for the service. They may have even requested it - who knows?

I know the feelings are mixed about Michael Jackson but for millions of Americans he is a pop icon legend. He is the Elvis Presley for a generation. And when an icon of this legend dies it gets a bit crazy. What should be a simple drive down the road could end up as a massive roadblock as the fans start lining the streets wanting to pay the last respects as his body drives by. I just saw videos of the Apollo Theater in Harlem and its lining up with people. Say what you will about Michael Jackson (and by you I mean whomever is reading this post) - this is going to be a massive funeral. The chopper was easier because it got him there immediately and without shutting down Los Angeles

Do you remember the OJ circus? Clogged the freeways for hours (fucking OJ).

The sheriff chose to keep the circus as far away from Jackson as possible.

Keeping the traffic moving and patrol cars on the ground elsewhere.

Plus, the county paid for it, not the state.

ed: sp.

will it be flown in CA State copper there?

..and same again to the cemetery ?...I think not.

-pfff, sorry Michael.

The thing would have been mobbed as it pulled onto the street from the hospital. Potentially a VERY BAD scene.

I think it was a smart move.

Or were you thinking more of a Weekend at Bernie's scenario for moving the corpse through the crowd?

Cheers
P