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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 03:53 AM
Original message
George Will puts the "SMACK DOWN" on single-payer...
Edited on Fri Jun-26-09 03:58 AM by armyowalgreens
Being that I could not find the story online, I typed this entire god damn article out of the Arizona Republic. So you all better read it or I am going to go on a killing spree...:)

"Pushing dependence on single-payer care"
George Will
Washington Post syndication

To dissect today's healthcare debate, the crux of which concerns a "public option" use the mind's equivalent of a surgeons scalpel. It's called Occam's razor, a principle of intellectual parsimony: In solving a puzzle, start with the simplest explanatory theory.

The puzzle is: Why does the president, who says that if America were "starting from scratch," he would favor a "single-payer," government-run system and insist that healthcare reform include a government insurance plan that competes with private insurers?

The simplest answer is that such a plan will lead to a single-payer system.

Conservatives say that a government program will have the intended consequences of crowding private insurers out of the market, encouraging employers to stop providing coverage and luring employees from private insurance to the cheaper government option.

The Lewin Group estimates that 70 percent of the 172 million people privately covered might be drawn, or pushed to the government plan. A significant portion of the children who have enrolled in the State Children's Health Insurance Program since eligibility requirements were relaxed in February had private insurance.

Assurances that the government plan would play by the rules that private insurers play by are implausible. Government is incapable of behaving like market-disciplined private insurers.

The president says competition from a government plan is necessary to keep private insurers "honest." Presumably, being "honest" means not colluding to set prices, and evidently he thinks that, absent competition from government, there will not be a competitive market for insurance. This ignores two facts:

There are 1300 competing providers of health insurance. And Roll Call's Morton Kondracke notes that the 2003 medicare prescription-drug entitlement, relying on competition among private insurers enjoys 87 percent approval partly because competition has made premiums less expensive than had been projected. The programs estimated cost from 2007 to 2016 has been reduced 43 percent.

Some advocates of a public option say health coverage is so complex that consumers will be befuddled by choices. But consumers of many complicated products, from auto insurance to computers, have navigated the competition among providers, who have increased quality while lowering prices.

Although 70 percent of insured Americans rate their health-care arrangements good or excellent, radical reform of health care is supposedly necessary because there are 45.7 million uninsured. That number is, however, a "snapshot" of a nation in which more than 20 million working Americans change jobs every year. Many of them are briefly uninsured between jobs.

Almost 39 percent of the uninsured are in five states-Arizona, California, Florida, New Mexico and Texas - all of which are entry points for immigrants. About 21 percent, 9.7 million, of the uninsured are not citizens. Up to 14 million are eligible for existing government programs ( Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, veterans benefits, etc.) but have not enrolled. And 9.1 million have household incomes of at least $75,000 and could purchase insurance.

Insuring the perhaps 20 million people who are protractedly uninsured because they cannot afford insurance is conceptually simple. Give them money: (refundable) tax credits or debit cards (which have replaced food stamps) loaded with a particular value. This would produce people who are more empowered than dependent.

Unfortunately, advocates of a government option consider that a defect. Which is why the simple idea of the dependency agenda cuts like a razor through the complexities of this debate.



:argh:
I don't even know where to begin...


Although 70 percent of insured Americans rate their health-care arrangements good or excellent, radical reform of health care is supposedly necessary because there are 45.7 million uninsured. That number is, however, a "snapshot" of a nation in which more than 20 million working Americans change jobs every year. Many of them are briefly uninsured between jobs.


"According to the census numbers, in 2007 there were 45.7 million uninsured Americans.

Families USA says that number tells only part of the story because the Census Bureau counts only people who were uninsured for the full calendar year." - http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/05/news/economy/health_uninsured/index.htm"

The article goes on to say that 86.7 million people are insured at least some point over a two year period. That's 30 percent of the population.


Almost 39 percent of the uninsured are in five states-Arizona, California, Florida, New Mexico and Texas - all of which are entry points for immigrants.


First off, I don't know where he is getting these numbers from. Second off, guess what percentage of the US population those 5 states hold?

A little over 30 percent ( 88,000,000 people)...

It would seem normal that 5 states with 30+ percent of the population would also have "almost 39 percent of the uninsured" in the US. There could be an argument made that a 7-8 percent discrepancy should be looked into further. But it's not the bomb shell that Will claims it to be.

The "dirty Mexicans" are not taking our health care, George. Sorry.


Assurances that the government plan would play by the rules that private insurers play by are implausible. Government is incapable of behaving like market-disciplined private insurers.


That statement is fucking laughable. What rules do the private insurance industry actually play by, George? Really, I'd like to know about these "rules" they follow.

Would that be pre-existing condition denials? Experimental procedure denials? Rubber stamping procedure denials to up profits? Or maybe it's the ridiculously high "market disciplined" prices?

Jesus fucking christ. :mad:


39%
21%
14 million
9.1 million
70%


Where did these numbers come from?


Some advocates of a public option say health coverage is so complex that consumers will be befuddled by choices.


Who are these vague "advocates" you are speaking of? When did we ever say that Americans can't handle complicated choices?



-----------------------------------------

I'm sure there's more BS in that article. But I just can't take reading his garbage for errors anymore.


This is the kind of crap that drives a person to drink. And to top it all off, this moron is nationally syndicated. MILLIONS of people read his lies every day.

Excuse me while I go shit a brick sideways.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Very excellent synopsis of the op-ed
:thumbsup:

Basically, Will is admitting that the poor widdle insurance companies can't compete against a public plan.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. Here's the article.
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well fuck...
:dunce:
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ha. I totally did that just to make you go "fuck me"
But well fuck works.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Don't shoot I read the whole damn thing.
And did not know whether to laugh or cry.
That Marked disciplined remark was a hoot.
It is more of that old "The invisible hand of the market" bull shit that pretends that there is something spiritual or benevolent about the "Market"
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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. Why is Will so full of shit?
Except he's right about one thing - Obama is pushing toward a single-payer system.
"Some advocates of a public option say health coverage is so complex that consumers will be befuddled by choices." And now former insurance executives are telling congress that the insurance companies have a strategy of deliberately confusing people so that they can deny them care at will.

Govt is unable to behave like "market disciplined private insurers." Yea, they are unable to let people suffer and die so that a few creeps can take home multi-million dollar paydays. Yea, they're so disciplined that I have to make three trips over four days to get all the diabetes prescriptions for my 81-year-old neighbor because they insist that something requires the pharmacist or doctor to fax some bullshit to them before they're convinced it's necessary. This is the same group that's warning us that the govt will get in between us and our doctor. Last time I had to ask my doctor to phone the insurance company to get an ok for a specific prescription, he told me that he was thinking of quitting practicing because of the hassle of the system. And I couldn't blame him == he had to spend a half hour on the phone with complete knuckleheads just to get an ok for some nose spray that I use one dose of a year.That's more time than he spent checking me out in the exam.

Did you say you got this our of the Arizona Repulsive? Maybe a killing spree IS in order.

What I can't figure out is how come these idiots get away with denigrating a single-payer system without being forced to explain why it works well in every other developed country.

Conservatives - they were against letting women vote, they were against instituting child labor laws, they were against instituting workplace safety laws, they were against desegregation, they were and are against laws protecting the environment. But you can trust them, they're the party of common sense. Or the party of shit-for-brains.

Rich jerks with expensive ranches here in New Mexico oppose a single-payer health care plan because "the govt always makes things worse." But when I point out to them that it did a pretty good job with Rural Electrification and RFD mail service (instituted under the communist FDR) and they seem to like having electricity and mail service out at their remote ranches for the same price I get it in town, they quickly change the subject. The simple fact is that they have it good and they could give a rat's behind about the rest of humanity.
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corpseratemedia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. ...
"Government is incapable of behaving like market-disciplined private insurers."


THIS IS A GOOD THING!!

Poor Georgie Willktoast, admitting that "the market" - (the incessant need to provide maximum profit at the cost of the sick ) is the opposite of how govt. insurance will work.

So govt insurance will cover, not drop people who need medical help, etc.

GOOD GOOD GOOD!

Thanks georgie!

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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Give them money: (refundable) tax credits or debit cards" - this is a RW
conservative water-boy talking about handing people money.


Insuring the perhaps 20 million people who are protractedly uninsured because they cannot afford insurance is conceptually simple. Give them money: (refundable) tax credits or debit cards (which have replaced food stamps) loaded with a particular value. This would produce people who are more empowered than dependent.

Unfortunately, advocates of a government option consider that a defect. Which is why the simple idea of the dependency agenda cuts like a razor through the complexities of this debate.


Those last two sentences are confoundedly contradictory.

Give people money/loaded debit cards as a substitute for health care? Simple idea of dependency cuts like a razor through the complexities of the debate? WTF!

I view giving people loaded debit cards a greater form of created dependence than providing health care for them. The goal is to provide health care George.

And why waste time with debit cards? In the interest of efficiency just hand the money over to the insurance companies. That's really what you are saying here George.

George, you are now officially scum.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Oh, George was official scum long ago.
And he works real hard to keep those credentials up to date.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. Intellectual disconnect ...
RWers say the Government couldn't run a lemonade stand, and yet its option will be run so well that the insurance companies (essentially, middle-management) will be out-performed and go out of business ...
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. this stuff about immigrants is bullshit.
at least in NYS, you have to be a resident to qualify for any assistance. ANY! and I hate that bs about how the illegals are taking everything. all our jobs... our assistance... it's just an invention because somebody has to be the bad guy. and when times are tough it's easier to blame someone else than have to look at ourselves and our responsibility in the situation.

The fact is that a lot of people just don't qualify for assistance, not that some imaginary illegal alien is stealing it from them. If you lose your job or healthcare, you can't just automatically qualify for food stamps or medicaid. If you have any savings or anything short of living in a cardboard box you generally don't qualify for much. I should know. Bob had five shares of walmart stock which he lost all his paperwork on a LONG time ago that seemed to be enough to prevent us from getting any help, even though he would get maybe $20 from all five put together after all the crap he'd have to go through to sell them. but i digress.

First of all, most americans who are happy with their insurance are happy because they haven't had to use it for more than checkups and the odd test, or maybe if their kid had the flu. Sure, you tend to be happy with anything that you haven't really had to deal with yet. How many people who have insurance (or HAD insurance) and have had a catastrophic medical problem are still happy with their insurance. I bet that satisfied percentage drops right down. Just the hassle you have to go through is probably enough to tick anyone off.

the insurers don't seem to have any rules. They seem to have one rule... Insure people who aren't going to use it, and if they do, try to find a way to deny the claim.... and then dump them. The only way the public plan would compete with that is what.... insure everyone regardless of previous health issues and not dump them when and if they actually need to use it?? Well, sure the private companies can't compete with that. And that's why the market doesn't work for healthcare... they can only make a profit by NOT providing the service. It's ridiculous. And I wish people would see through it. But instead it's... as long as i've got mine. they may be unhappy with the cost going up every year, but they just keep paying it because they have to have insurance.... and they think to themselves that since they are able to swing it somehow, then anyone who isn't is just lazy or something.


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CynicalObserver Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. Different degrees of 'not playing by the rules.'
"That statement is fucking laughable. What rules do the private insurance industry actually play by, George? Really, I'd like to know about these "rules" they follow."

Seriously, look how congress just up and changed the rules after the initial tarp funds were paid out. Any private entity that tried to do that on a contract would be paying fees and damages quickly in court. Every private company knows government can and will do it, without giving them any recourse.
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bump. People need to see this morons work.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. Debit cards?!
Who the hell pays for insurance by swiping a debit card?! :wtf:
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Apparently empowered individuals...
:crazy:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. Isn't Will a right wing hack?
This is what we are up against and the insurance lobby publicists will keep putting articles like this in reputable publications to propagandize the people. You'd think their editors would do some fact checking but they don't seem to.
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-26-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. If a 19 year old college student can tear apart that article, so can the editors...
There must be something going on behind the scenes at these papers.

I call hax.
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