Bernie Madoff's 'Victims' Have A Lot To Be Thankful For .....

They could have been living in New Orleans and lost everything they owned when Katrina hit.

Or they could have been diagnosed with a life threatening illness and have no medical insurance to pay for the hugely expensive treatment which would totally bankrupt them.

The list of alternatives could go on and on....

However, many of the Madoff victims will eventually be in line to recover up to $500,000 from government insurance on their accounts --so they have something to look forward to that the above examples do not.

Many still have their health and some have other assets they can call upon.

So it comes down to the fact that many once had money and lived a lifestyle that others can only dream about, and now that is gone.

Make no mistake, it is difficult for them. But at least they had a choice of where to put their money which they lost. The same cannot be said of the Katrina victim since they had no control over the course of a hurricane that hit them. And the financially devastated medical care victim did not choose to have cancer, heart attack, etc.

Now that these once wealthy are having to 'struggle' to make ends meet, maybe the MSM will shine the light on others who have been equally devastated through no fault of their own and are in need of our help.

"they deserved to be swindled because they had money!" stuff.

If you are going to start parsing who deserves misfortune more than others, then everybody deserves misfortune, it's just a matter of degree.

The reason a lot of people have money is because they worked for it. In fact, most millionaires in the US get up every morning and go to work.

I wish they had not been swindled, but they are not the only members of our society that are financially devastated as the OP points out.

I find this statement amazingly uninformed "The reason a lot of people have money is because they worked for it."

Do you think there are not people out there who work hard every day and barely get by on low wages?
What makes them any different from the Madoff victims? Why should we revere the Madoff victims over them?

about the general tone around here lately. I should have pointed that out.

And I'm not revering Madoff victims. Nor am I suggesting that those who don't have a lot of money don't work hard.

Your comment is off the wall.

The OP is making a valid and much-needed point.

The symbol of fraud has been dealt with-- Bernie Madoff--

Now what about the folks who believed him--believed in the idea that miraculous returns were in the making---- not so much sympathy for them on my part.

The vast majority bought into the get-richer-quick schemed. Immediate gratification based upon some pie-in-the-sky mentality.

People forced into bankruptcy by health care, folks devastated by hurricanes-- all lost in the shuffle-- and ignored.

The degree to which you speak is much larger than you think.

Sympathy for millionaires is something that the vast majority of this country don't have the luxury to contemplate.

Get a grip. Folks are suffering and the poor former-millionaires are the least of our worries.

I was making the point that there are many ways to be financially devastated in our society, and investment fraud is only one of them.

The millions of people living below the poverty line can attest to this.

Must treat the rich with kids gloves or they fall to pieces.

Seriously, though, I believe people in their attempt to be analytical/intellectual miss the suffering that is going on in the world around them.

They get lost in abstracts, semantics, and pseudo-forensics and ignore the fact that people have lost their jobs, health, hope, and lives in their bid to make sure that they can justify their own existence.

Where is the MSM coverage of those people?

That is why there is so much riding on the Obama Administration.

Huh?

:shrug:

Thanks for the link!

:thumbsup:

that's two posts today that have done that. Many of the 'victims', as you put it, were charitable foundations that made millions of dollars in grants to causes such as education, youth justice, human rights, universities and hospitals. Not all of the 'victims', as you put it, are Daddy Warbucks or Scrooge McDuck, sitting on their pile of money.

Was Eli Wiesel, a 'victim' or a victim?

Jeanne Levy-Church and Kenneth Levy-Church, are still probably not 'struggling' to make ends meet. But the JEHT foundation that they funded closed it's doors in January. That foundation was a 'victim' of Madoff, and won't be making any more grants like these:

American Civil Liberties Union Foundation $180,000 2006 1 year
American Prosecutors Research Institute $183,687 2005 15 months
Association of Paroling Authorities International $35,000 2006 4 months
Association of Paroling Authorities, International $200,000 2007 16 months
Association of Paroling Authorities, International $200,000 2007 16 months
Baptist Community Ministries $390,000 2008 8 months
Bazelon Center for Mental Health $493,162 2005 2 years
Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law $25,000 2006 8 months
Brown University: Center for Alcohol and Addiction Studies $355,937 2006 18 months
California Commission for the Fair Administration of Justice $57,500 2006 1 year
Cascade Center for Community Governance $382,750 2006 18 months
Center for Alternative Sentencing and Employment Services $360,000 2008 2 Years
Center for Effective Public Policy $268,000 2008 6 months
Center for Effective Public Policy $45,000 2008 1 year
Center for Effective Public Policy $500,000 2005 2 years
Center for Effective Public Policy $24,198 2006 6 months
Center for Effective Public Policy $50,000 2006 7 months
Center for Effective Public Policy $163,500 2007 1 year
Center for Employment Opportunities $350,000 2005 3 years
Center for Traumatic Grief and Victim Services $75,000 2006 2 years
Charles Hamilton Houston Institute for Race & Justice $30,000 2006 9 months
Chicago Metropolis 2020 $65,150 2006 1 year
Citizens Alliance on Prisons and Public Spending $490,000 2004 3 years
City of Providence $197,000 2007 3 years
Colorado Department of Corrections $321,500 2007 12 months
Community Foundation of North Florida, Inc. $200,000 2007 6 months
Community Foundation of Southeast Michigan $510,000 2007 18 months
Corporation for Supportive Housing $643,500 2008 15 months
Corporation for Supportive Housing $251,000 2008 30 months
Corporation for Supportive Housing $150,000 2006 1 year
Council of Michigan Foundations $20,000 2006 1 year
Council on Crime and Justice $265,310 2007 18 months
Dallas County District Attorney's Office $454,000 2008 24 months
Death Penalty Information Center $125,000 2007 12 months
Drug Policy Alliance $750,000 2004 3 years
Families Against Mandatory Minimums $500,000 2006 2 years
Family Justice $30,000 2007 4 months
Fight Crimes: Invest in Kids $250,000 2007 2 years
Florida Justice Institute $52,000 2007 2 years
Florida Partners in Crisis, Inc. $125,000 2008 1 year
FrameWorks Institute $270,000 2003 2 years
Georgia State University Research Foundation $477,132 2006 2 years
Grand Rapids Community Foundation $205,000 2006 1 year
Immigrant Legal Resource Center $200,000 2004 2 years
Immigrant Legal Resource Center $25,000 2006 1 year
Innocence Project $2,400,000 2004 3.5 years
Innocence Project $2,250,000 2008 36 months
Institute for Social and Environmental Justice Education $61,680 2006 6 months
Intermountain Harm Reduction Project $35,000 2006 1 year
Job Opportunities Task Force $231,000 2007 24 months
John Jay College of Criminal Justice, Center for Modern Forensic Practice $249,000 2008 12 months
Kansas Department of Corrections $450,000 2006 1 year
Kansas Department of Corrections $4,670,000 2006 3 years
Local Initiatives Support Corporation $592,000 2005 2 years
Louis de la Parte Florida Mental Health Institute $156,000 2007 1 year
MDRC $1,097,143 2006 4 years
Mental Health Association of Palm Beach County $300,000 2005 2 years
Michigan Council on Crime and Delinquency $300,000 2008 8 months
Michigan Public Health Institute $334,300 2007 5 months
Michigan Public Health Institute $197,154 2007 2 months
Michigan Public Health Institute $280,000 2007 5 months
Missouri Department of Corrections $240,300 2008 12 months
National Center for Youth Law $204,000 2008 8 months
National Commission on Correctional Health Care $451,500 2003 3 years
National Employment Law Project $90,000 2006 18 months
National Governors Association $400,000 2005 2 years
National Housing Law Project $50,000 2006 6 months
New Jersey Association on Correction $90,000 2006 1 year
New Jersey Institute for Social Justice $450,000 2004 3 years
Pacific News Service $50,000 2006 1 year
Police Foundation $353,000 2008 28 months
Positive Health Program $264,999 2006 1 year
Pretrial Justice Institute $300,000 2007 12months
Pretrial Justice Institute $193,000 2007 12months
Pretrial Services Resource Center $343,528 2006 1 year
Pro Bono Net $50,000 2006 6 months
Public Policy Associates $67,500 2007 9 months
Public Policy Associates $1,694,914 2005 30 months
Rhode Island Family Life Center $512,014 2007 24 months
Rutgers University $236,554 2006 2 years
Stop Prisoner Rape $300,000.00 2008 2 years
Texas Defender Service $280,000 2006 2 years
The American Judicature Society $700,000 2007 18 months
The Defender Association $271,510 2006 18 months
The Institute $156,000 2004 2 years
The Sentencing Project $350,000 2006 1 year
The Urban Institute $112,986 2006 1 year
Tides Foundation $120,000 2004 18 months
Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse $283,000 2005 2 years
University of California, Berkeley School of Law $500,000 2007 1 year
University of California, Berkeley School of Law $296,600 2007 3 years
University of Missouri - St. Louis $$226,700 2008 16 months
University of Pennsylvania, School of Social Work $117,500 2007 1 year
Urban Institute $98,000 2007 9 months
Vera Institute of Justice $500,000 2007 24 months
Vera Institute of Justice $500,000 2007 30 months
Vera Institute of Justice $600,000 2007 24 months
Vera Institute of Justice $500,000 2005 2 years
Vera Institute of Justice $900,000 2004 3 years
Vera Institute of Justice $38,400 2005 1 year
Vera Institute of Justice $75,000 2007 3 months
Volunteers of America $500,000 2003 4 years
WISDOM $71,500 2007 15 months
Western Prison Project $200,000 2005 2 years
Western Prison Project $63,400 2006 9 months
Wisconsin Court System, Director of State Courts Office $573,000 2007 3 years
Women's Prison Association & Home, Inc $150,000 2007 2 years
Women's Prison Association & Home, Inc. $150,000 2007 1 year

or these:

Advancement Project $250,000 2008 1 year
Advancement Project $350,000 to each 2005 1 year
Alliance for Justice $150,000 2005 2 years
American Association of People with Disabilities $75,000 2005 1 year
Brennan Center for Justice $300,000 2006 1 year
Brennan Center for Justice $450,000 2007 1 year
Brennan Center for Justice, Democracy Program $130,000 2005 1 year
Brigham Young University $$313,995 2006 2 years
Brigham Young University, Center for the Study of Elections and Democracy $25,000 2005 5 months
Campaign Finance Institute $400,000 2007 2 years
Campaign Legal Center $up to $15,000 2005 1 month
Campaign and Media Legal Center $30,000 2006 1 year
Center for Governmental Studies $250,000 2006 2 years
Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning and Engagement $75,000 2004 1 year
Center for Political Accountability $175,000 2008 1 year
Common Cause Education Fund $350,000 2005 1 year
Common Cause Education Fund $50,000 2005 1 year
Common Cause Education Fund $700,000 2005 1 year
Common Cause Education Fund $330,000 2005 1 year
Common Cause Education Fund $250,000 2007 4 months
Common Cause Education Fund $333,000 2005 2005
Common Cause Education Fund $125,000 2007 1 year
Democracy North Carolina $300,000 2006 3 years
Democracy North Carolina $75,000 2005 1 year
Demos $210,000 2008 9 months
Demos $200,000 2005 1 year
Innovation Network $50,000 2005 1 year
Justice at Stake Campaign $150,000 2006 2 years
MAPLight.org $75,000 2007 1 year
National Institute on Money in State Politics $400,000 2006 2 years
National Institute on Money in State Politics $450,000 2008 2 years
National Voting Rights Institute $65,000 2005 5 months
National Voting Rights Institute $150,000 2006 6 months
National Voting Rights Institute $75,000 2004 1 year
Ohio State University: Michael E. Moritz College of Law $140,000 2007 1 year
Overseas Vote Foundation $200,000 2007 1 year
People for the American Way Foundation $75,000 2004 3 months
Pew Charitable Trusts $23,500 2006 4 months
Pew Charitable Trusts $1,700,000 2007 1 year
Progressive America Fund $75,000 2005 1 year
Project Vote $150,000 2008 9 months
Project Vote, USAction Education Fund, Clean Water Fund $75,000 to each 2005 5 months
Proteus Fund $200,000 2005 1 year
Proteus Fund $200,000 2006 1 year
Proteus Fund $200,000 2004 1 year
Public Campaign $200,000 2005 1 year
Public Campaign $200,000 2006 1 year
Public Campaign $167,500 2006 4 months
Public Campaign $150,000 2005 1 year
Public Policy and Education Fund of New York $125,000 2005 1 year
Rockefeller Family Fund $350,000 2005 1 year
The Cato Institute $75,000 2005 1 year
The Center for Political Accountability $100,000 2005 1 year
The Center for Public Interest Research $148,784 2006 1 year
The Institute on Money in State Politics $130,000 2005 1 year
The Reform Institute $75,000 2005 1 year
University of California, Berkeley, Institute of Governmental Studies $162,338 2005 1 year
University of North Carolina, Center for Civil Rights $10,000 2006 11 months
University of Pennsylvania, Fels Institute of Government $30,000 2005 5 months
University of Wisconsin-Madison $42,291 2005 5 months
Wellstone Action Fund $74,000 2006 1 year
Women's Voices. Women Vote. $250,000 2006 1 year


So, despite your 'concern' for Madoff's 'victims', there are real people whose lives will be dramatically affected by Madoff's ponzi scheme.

Sid

... it is just the manner in which they were 'victimized' that differs.

NOT ONE OF THE MADOFF 'victims' deserved to be swindled, ....but neither did the Katrina 'victims' or the medically devastated 'victims' deserve to have those disasters visited upon them.

YOu make an excellent point that with the loss of funding to charitable foundations, even more members of our society in need will be further financially impacted by the loss of charitable support.

My use of the quotation marks around victim was to point out that there are lots of 'victims' out there who deserve our empathy as well as those who invested with Bernie Madoff. And their futures are much dimmer than that of the Madoff 'victims.'

and talking about not shining shoes so they don't wear out. She won't be able to be independent for much longer.

Using your attempt at creating a scale of empathy, we don't have to have as much concern for victims of Katrina who lived, since they didn't die. Or people who only lost the contents of their house, since they still have real estate.

Or we don't have to have as much feeling for those who were tortured by Americans in Iraq, since they were only electrocuted and not water-boarded 100x. Or they were just put in a naked pile rather than raped.

I have no idea what you are talking about trying to push a 'sliding scale of empathy' when the OP was about expanding empathy.

Your comments about torture, and 'naked piles' has no application to the topic.

... helped by the charities he swindled. They don't get a bail-out.

...why anyone, especially someone who is supposed to be financially savvy, would have all of their money in one investment.

Have any of these people ever heard of diversification?

It really is astounding to me.

The consistent record returns on Madoff investments regardless of the ups and downs of the stock market likely induced the Madoff investors to put most or all their money with him.

Very similar to the Enron employees who were defrauded by Ken Delay and encouraged to not only not pull their $$ out of Enron stock, but to INVEST MORE when Delay knew the stock was tanking. Enron employees could buy the stock at a discount over the public.

Diversification means having to give up the maximum return on the dollar invested in order to avoid just this kind of massive disaster.