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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 09:22 AM
Original message
The hounds are tracking Goldman Sachs.
Seriously ugly information at Kos:

"Incredibly Shrinking Liquidity" as Goldman Flushed Quant Trading, July 7, 2009



After wading through the massive compilation of information, a few posters' comments sum up the substance of what Goldman may be pulling off:




From Kos poster RenderQT:

Abridged version:


1. GS developed high end algorithms that could track and predict market movements based on historical data

2. GS has the capital to invest in ultra high-end equipment to run their data sets

3. GS also has their system on the actual network at NYSE

4. With the best equipment and algorithms right on the nexus of the NYSE, GS would be able to "front run" the entire market

Ta-da!





From Kos poster Ezekial 23 20:

GS, through access to the system as a result of their special gov't perks, was/is able to read the data on trades before it's committed, and place their own buys or sells accordingly in that brief moment, thus allowing them to essentially steal buttloads of money every day from the rest of the punters.

Two things come out of this:

1. If true, this should be highly illegal, and would, in any sane country result in something like what happened to Arthur Andersen after it was found out they were deliberately helping clients shred evidence.

2. NEVER place 'market' orders. Always set your buy/sell prices. Market orders are just begging for somebody in the chain to steal money from you.




From Kos poster skrymir:

Yep. It's just high-tech frontrunning.

The simplified version is that GS has access to the network where the pre-transaction communication takes place and is using that information to frontrun the market. Frontrunning used to be done mostly by brokers and specialists who had access to the order information prior to the execution of the trades - they would then either buy or sell for their own account before the real trades occurred, accruing a small profit on each transaction. Looks like GS is doing the same thing, only with high speed computers. This is illegal on every exchange that I know of. So when are the indictments coming?





Yes, that's what we all want to know.


Goldman Sachs has been ripping this country off since the Great Depression.



With the very recent news that a Goldman insider has been arrested for theft of proprietary computer code that may be "The Secret Sauce" that Goldman Sachs used to rob the entire market...... (Hey, if elections can be rigged with secret software, why not the entire financial system?)


It is time this cancerous mass is destroyed.





zerohedge and http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/">Matt Taibbi have their noses to the ground. Stay tuned.



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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. This will be a big story
if the gatekeepers do not bury it.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
39. This will not be a big story
GS is the government now, unless they investigate themselves, nothing will change.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Thats why we have recommend
so we can get stories like this exposure.
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Geitner Was PAtheTIC On Fareed Zakaria Today... What A POS!
The whole MF'n government is bouGHT Lock Stock and Barrel and it seems that there is ZERO that we can do about it... EXCEPT... STOP INVESTING PERIOD SO THAT THESE FU*KERS HAVE NUYHING TO ... SHORT SELL!
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. bttt.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Rec'd for more exposure. n/t
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. Heads should roll, but will they?
Now much money does it take to silence this story?
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I don't think they can. It's just too damn ugly.
I used to make a good return on the market until about five years ago when I realized it was being gamed. Now it's no better than a Vegas casino and Goldman is, apparently, the house.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. How much do campaign contributions add up to, HCE SuiGeneris?? Probably have to
double that this go-round.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. LTCM
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. incredible knr
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. K & R. Where are the so-called regulators?
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. The regulators are former GS employees!
How much do you think will get regulated?
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm not sure if this 'Link' is related, NewRuleSets.Project
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R! n/t
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. Can't wait to see what CNBC has to say about this.
Whoooooooo! Hear that whistle blowing way out of town.
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. I am glad that they are doing that...
I am also a bit cynical that anything major will really happen. I really hope it does, but Goldman has former employees all over Washington. Some are in the higher Federal offices that are supposed to be regulating this mess. I hope that concrete undeniable evidence is found, presented, and believed so that these frickin thieves can at least be put out of business.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. My God, this shit is insane.
Wow, just wow. :wow: :grr:
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
32. yep... that sums it up. nt
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. Goldman Sucks. nt
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. Can we have a BIG
Party when indictments come down for the top dudes?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. And another for us being the oldest people on the planet.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Better stock up a lot of pitchforks and torches!
:patriot:
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. If I ever got a tattoo....
it would be a pitchfork!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. Don't.
The pitchfork might be offensive to someone.
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. Let the wolves eat, they need the protein
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. Wouldn't shock me if GS is using the 'hot' PROMIS software
or an equivalent, and is behind the enabling FISA for corporate espionage. Did anyone ever figure out what happened to PROMIS? The software that knows what will happen before it does.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. Is this related to what you are asking about?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. So. Where'd all the loot go? And why is it We the People who are always left holding the bag?
Except in the present case, where we're left holding something much worse than an empty bag.
It's full of trillion-dollar I.O.U.s made out to... Goldman Sachs.

Know your BFEE: Goldmine Sacked or The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One

Know your BFEE: Phil Gramm, the Meyer Lansky of the War Party, Set-Up the Biggest Bank Heist Ever.

GS, of course, wrote across all those our I.O.U.s, "Transfer to Bearer."
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. The loot went to the already insanely top 1-2% in this country!
They enjoy playing these games. They milked this country for every dime they could.
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. sigh ..and its all probably in off shore accounts by now. nt
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. GS does operate its own Swiss private bank:
Goldman Sachs has had offices in Switzerland since 1974. The firm had provided investment services to wealthy individuals and families for over 45 years, so the idea of founding a Swiss private bank was a natural evolution for the firm. In 1992, the firm was granted a prestigious Swiss private banking licence.

The firm identified a need among its global private clients to combine the Goldman Sachs service level with a Swiss-based discretionary asset management program. Goldman, Sachs & Co. Bank combines the advantages of access to all global resources of Goldman Sachs with the added benefits of Swiss banking secrecy and the safety provided by a legally independent fully licensed Swiss bank.

/.. http://www.schweizer-banken.info/en/bank/zurich/goldman-sachs.htm


http://www2.goldmansachs.com/worldwide/switzerland/index.html
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. Not All Went To The Rich...
I'm no fan of GS, but many of the people who have their money invested with them are far from billionaires or even millionaires. Many have small portfolios that were all but wiped out when the market imploded...a good share of the money went to these accounts which have rebounded strong in recent months. It's the money that will fuel a future recovery but is being held back by tight credit.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #22
37. Someday,
Edited on Sat Jul-11-09 03:49 AM by HCE SuiGeneris
this BushDespiser would love to spend an afternoon/evening discussing the way things might be -- in an extended conversation.
Peace
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mullard12ax7 Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's been going on for years, it took a new administration to deal with it
We're not dealing with it very well though, the U.S. just financially propped up all the criminals with about a trillion dollars instead of allowing them to go bankrupt as they should have. Traders have known about these crimes since at least 2005 and it's not just Goldman, it's Morgan Stanley, Deutch Bank, Bank of England, Credit Swiss and others. Goldman is just a portion of an entire culture of corruption.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. I went over to 538 to see if Nate commented on this. Would love to read his discussion.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. Goldman Sachs was one of Obama's biggest campaign contributors.
University of California $1,564,490
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,017
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $699,790
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132
Time Warner $589,334
Sidley Austin LLP $588,598
Stanford University $586,557
National Amusements Inc $550,683
UBS AG $543,219
Wilmerhale Llp $542,618
Skadden, Arps et al $530,839
IBM Corp $527,572
Columbia University $526,802
Morgan Stanley $514,881
General Electric $499,130
Latham & Watkins $493,835
US Government $491,420


http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. So then, it should not be shocking that Bernanke has GS ties,
Geithner has them, etc.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. so will he say we should move forward? Goodness I hope not... can't they hold ANY of these jerks
accountable other than the blue collar companies?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-10-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. BTW, July 9th, 2009, GS reports record earnings
Edited on Fri Jul-10-09 10:15 PM by truedelphi
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
34. K&R
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
36. Look at the Enron gaming of California for a prediction of how this will be handled
Yes, they'll get three guys ratting against each other and one of 'em will pretend to croak. And once again those who've been cheated the most will be left to pick up the pieces while the Goldminers live to rape, raid, and run.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. Why would they have to run?
Edited on Sun Jul-12-09 12:33 AM by truedelphi
After all, this company's power extends into the Federal Reserve and the Treasury!?!

In fact it can be assumed that some time in the near future, other game plans resembling the following might once again come to pass:
On September 15, 2008, then New York Fed president, Tim Geithner, pressed for AIG’s biggest counterparty, Goldman Sachs, to help the insurer raise capital after it became clear that AIG was at risk of going bankrupt. And on that same day Goldman’s current CEO, Lloyd Blankfein,
was at the New York Fed. And thus Goldman ended up in receipt of about $12 billion in tax dollars thanks to AIG’s wholesale credit-default swap passing money through to GS after the government bailed out the insurance giant.




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lelgt60 Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-12-09 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
44. This is hardly secret...
There's a whole business developed around "algorithmic trading" which analyzes the order book at the millisecond level. There are hundreds of companies involved. There are trade magazines. There are trade shows. You can even try do it yourself through companies like Interactive Brokers.

Shit, Goldman ADVERTISES this stuff:
http://www2.goldmansachs.com/services/securities/execution-services/electronic-trading.html

Trade Show:
http://www.algotradingny.com/
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