Do car dealers actually want to sell cars?

Seriously. Do they?

The worst part of buying a new car has always been having to spend time with a salesman.

Care salesmen are liars.

My wife just went to look at a Cobalt. She wants one with a manual trans. Chevy has some incentive plans such as $2000 cash back and zero percent loans. We will also use the Cash For Clunkers deal.

So, she comes home. No manual trans models on the lot at all. She drove an automatic and the salesman turned the radio up loud. When my wife asked him to turn it down, he did so just a little. He also turned up the AC to full. My wife said that she would like to hear the car, but that had no impression on the salesman who was apparently trying to hide something. My wife had a "build your own" estimate from the Chevy website but the salesman had to include On Star and other unwanted options into the quote, then he left out the $4500 for the Clunkers thing then said "that just comes to us" as some lame-ass attempt to talk around not deducting the amount from the total (not the first asshole to try to scam her on the Cash For Clunkers thing). The asshole refused to even try to locate a manual trans model for my wife to test drive.

In other words, a typical trip to the dealer for a woman looking alone for a new car.

She has had similar experiences elsewhere.

Now, things were not so fucked up at the Honda, Nissan and Toyota dealers we visited together Friday evening. Funny how that happens. At this point she is not interested in PontiSaturSubarBuiKiaHyunVolksMiniMazda and we already have two Ford Foci and is looking fr what she likes and feels comfortable in. It was a HUUUUUGE leap for this staunch Ford Guy to consider a Chevy, but the Cobalt looked OK on the internets. Way to fuck up a sale, Chevy Salesman Fuck. At this point it's Civic Vs. Corolla with Versa a distant third.

So, why are car salesmen such lying fucks? Why must the new car buying experience be painful like a kick in the crotch? Why must I be confronted with the strong desire to tell a salesman that he is a lying motherfucker and then wish and hope he takes a swing? Are there any new car dealers in the LA area reading DU that are not assholes? Wanna PM me?

Anybody else looking for a new car recently? Have some stories to share? Cuz it sure does not seem like they want to sell cars.

Cars should be sold by sales people who aren't part of the car company - that is, sold like toothpaste, which is to say: sold by whoever wants to fucking sell them.

The sticker price should be the price.

No dickering, no playing around with, "Okay, don't tell my boss, but I'll knock another $400 off this car..." or "You know what? I like you - let me go run the numbers again, and see what I can do to make sure you can drive off today with that car..."

Fuck that.

I, too, hate salespeople who are forced into situations in which they get paid only by commission and thus are forced to be assholes, cloying sycophants, and otherwise give up their humanity.

Let them go do that to business clients - but don't do it to average Joe and Jane consumer.

I'd like them to earn it, and earn my trust. That way, I'll come back. I am very loyal to good service. Which is why I am mystified by the attitudes.

Take Scion for example. It's listed at what appears to be a fairly reasonable base price, but when you get to the dealer, there are NO base models on the lot. The more the price of a car is inflated by the gadgets and upgrades, the wider the profit margin, it is on these cars that a dealer can most afford to deal. But at a one price dealer, they can't deal.

I agree with you in theory, but I don't want to pay a $2000 premium for the comfort of knowing that no one else bought the car cheaper.

The worst offender is Carmax. They capitalize on the average person's aversion to an adversarial bargaining situation and they rip people off in the process.

Unfortunately, the car business is a low-down dirty horse-trading business and that goes for BOTH sides of the equation - buyer and seller.. There are no honest car salesmen because the customers already chewed them up and spit them out.

Buyers lie just as much as salesmen. I worked for Buick when they tried their hand at "one price" selling and it turned out to be a disaster. The Buick buyers screamed bloody murder over the fact they couldn't haggle.

One price selling at Saturn was nothing but price fixing and collusion. The dealer got to sell for sticker price and the customer got screwed.

The foreign car dealers aren't much better. They pretty much stick together and don't discount their cars as much.
Their collusion is based more on pressure from the manufacturers and dealer trade groups.

You are correct about Carmax. Every time I see one of their stickers I see someone who paid about $2000 too much for their car.

A Rabbit usually has around $300 between invoice and MSRP. The only vehicle where there was more than a couple thousand was a high end Touareg. The problem is that customers always think there's 2 or 3 thousand markup on that $18k vehicle, even when the salesperson shows them the invoice.

that would end.

Cars are the only item I can think of that are not allowed to be sold by anyone who wants to sell stuff - if Target or Sears wants to sell boats, they can. Or dirtbikes, or ATVs, or anything else.

But only "car dealerships" can sell cars, and that's bullshit.

Why not let Target or Best Buy or Costco sell vehicles? There's no reason, excepting that Costco would probably only sell them in six-packs.

they had a 04 fully loaded low mile jeep to trade in on a new one. the dealership they have bought there last 5 cars would`t deal with them. so they went to another dealership ,they found a jeep on the east coast, and it arrived in a week...

yes there`s dealers who still think they can do business as usual. i`m a honda guy so --buy a honda!

If you don't screw or manipulate anybody, or you sell them exactly what they want at a basic price, you're not a good salesman. As a buyer confronted by such a salesman you have two choices, treat it as the war it is or go elsewhere. Well there is a third, buy something other than what you wanted for more than you expected to pay. The salesman's position is actually quite weak, he is in a very competitive and brutal business, but you have to be willing to walk, and to wait.

You have to talk to yourself on the way to the dealer. You have to say, "I don't have to do this today. If I get uncomfortable, I'll leave."

I love getting older, pride seems more foolish than any other time in my life. I will look at someone, salesman, doctor, you name it, and say, "I can't afford that." or "Why is this price so much higher than I have seen elsewhere?".

A salesman's wet dream is a customer who is trying to impress him.

Why is it ok to put all car salesman in one category, but not all pink people or all blind people? Blue eyed people, anyone? Hypocrites! If you get treated poorly, move on. Quit perpetuating myths about a group of people. Everyone is an individual, unless, of course, you are not.

And have the transporter deliver the car direct to your door.

None of this "we'll direct your inquiry to our local dealer" crap!

Thanks to the car dealer's lobbying and clout.

Here's what I did, I hope it works for you.


I went to the dealerships and looked at the vehicles in the running. It came down to the Ford truck or the Toyota truck.
Went to Edmunds dot com. Got the "TMV" price.
We have "dealer fee" and some other bullshit in Florida, which I didn't want to pay which was included in the TMV.
I went to the dealership, one I had been to before, and took the salesman who snagged me.
I told him the truck I wanted and he said he didn't have one in that color. I acted disappointed but said I would look at what he had.
I said, "OK let's do this."
We went inside and he starts some paperwork.
I said, "OK, I know that there are things you are required to do. Here's the deal, I am leaving in two hours with or without a car. I want that truck and I want it for $15K OUT THE DOOR. I understand you have to go see your sales manager. You get to do that three times before I leave. You can do anything you need to do, but I want to be out the door for that price. Taxes, fees, whatever."

That's pretty much how it went. I did have to take away the sale at one point, but I "gave in" for an extra $300. So I paid TOTAL $300 more than the TMV, which if you back out the taxes and dealer fee means I paid considerably less.

For the first time in my life, I didn't feel the slightest bit of insecurity or regret in my decision. I got what I consider to be the best deal o the best value.

www.edmunds.com/tmv/index.html

I have not been to the link yet, I gotta go work on dinner.

no ifs, ands or buts.

We also negotiate as if we were financing it, and have them do all the deducts & "deals", and then we pay cash:evilgrin:


and we have all the facts & figures & comparisons in-hand, printed out.

I guess they make money on the financing. At least that's the only thing I can figure out that explains what I've run into. I do know I've had nothing but grief trying to get a salesperson to contact my credit union for the appropriate paperwork, where I hold a line of credit, before I come in to purchase a vehicle on a Saturday when I'm off work.

I've been promised they had everything there in front of them twice now, only to get there and have them try to foist credit from a vendor of theirs off on me rather than having contacted my credit union as they'd swore to me they had. I finally just blew them off entirely.

It's frustrating enough having them try to sell me all kinds of programs and features I don't want, but to not respect my choice of financing is simply unprofessional.

I went in with a check I could fill out (up to a certain amount) and the price from a newspaper ad, I had to find the car at that price on the lot, and wait an hour and a half, but that's what I got.

extended warranty sales too.

What you do is give them some non-committal answer when they ask about either of these options. Let them run the numbers THINKING you'll take one or both, then after the final numbers are ran, tell them you changed your mind and don't want the extended warranty, and you may just have enough if that is the cost of the vehicle.

Also, buy on the last day of the month. They want to move vehicles off the lot so they're not on their month end inventory. My last car, I purchased at 4:55 pm on Feb 27 (Saturday - dealership wasn't open on Sunday and closed at 5:00 pm on Saturday). I got damn near $500.00 shaved off the price. No extended warranty and no financing - it was a used car, and I know they didn't make too much on that sale.

Chase has been good to me over the years, so I'll likely stick with them... or go to my credit union when their next big refinance sale is promoted.

The #1 profit center for any dealership is supposedly the service center. That's why nobody wants to sell you an electric car (no oil changes, no oil, no filters, no coolant, no hoses or belts, spark plugs, etc). As much of an asshole as the salesman who sold me my car was, the financing was a totally no pressure, no big deal thing. I already had mine and he couldn't have cared less.

Now the extended warranty on the other hand...that was the really hard sell.

Then of course, there is the back end from the manufacturer.

Dealership hate it when people have their own financing prepared or pay cash.

If you also don't "trade in" a vehicle they have nothing left with which to distract you from the actual sales price of the car.

It's a horrible business built, top to bottom, on everybody lying to everybody else.

Internet Sales Manager.

Find number for internet sales manager (or internet sales team). Let him know exactly what you want and ask for best offer. Tell him you are calling all the other ISM for their best offer. Best deal gets it no second chance to renegotiate.

The ISM makes it up on volume. Last 2 times I bought a vehicle I worked through the ISM and they had the invoice prepared when I arrived.

It is too easy.

That wasn't even a good salesmen (the turn up radio & AC trick is something they teach you when you start selling). He likely had no idea what he was doing. How to spot a good salesmen? You don't. They take you for a ride and you never know it. :)

BTW: I made almost a third more as a car salesman as I do now as a professional w/ a degree in a high demand field but between the hours (60/wk including every weekend) and the constant "game" it destroys your soul one day at a time.

You don't know the half of it when it comes to ripping people off in a "stealership". There are ways to rip you off that most people don't even see coming.

Like this. I convince you 7% is a good rate but I already know we can finance you at 5.5%. You sign and the bank cuts us a check back for "bumping the rate".

Or someone "knows" the service warranties, rustproofing, etc in finance room are junk. I pack the price. We agree on say $15K and I tell you that is $329 a month but really it is $309 a month. I have packed the price $20 per month. In backroom the finance manager gives you a "deal" for a warranty at only $15 per month. $329 + $15 = $344. In reality you just paid $35 a month and it is 70% profit.

Or if you are a "payment buyer" who previously had bad credit and you only want to keep your payments the same I can do it. To payment buyers things look like a great deal if payment is the same. I have sold cars for 10% above sticker to a payment buyer who thanked me for the great deal.

Recieved a good price and they had to find what I wanted to have shipped in.

We will be looking intot he ISMs right after we check out the Edmunds site.

i am thinking about buying a new car and dread the prospect. I honestly was traumatized by my last car purchase .... the first new car I purchased "on my own" after divorcing and the process almost pushed me over the edge.

Research the TMV. Email or call all the dealers in a 100 mile radius, tell them what you want and that you're price shopping. Once you've received two or three good bids, call the dealer you like, or that has the color you want, and tell him what the low price is to see if he'll meet it.

Car sales may be the sleaziest profession in the USA, but the internet has put the consumer in charge.

BTW, get a fax confirmation of the offer, as most of these sleazebags will tell you one thing, and then when you drive out there they'll change the deal and deny they made that offer.

Or better yet, look on craigslist and buy a good used car and cut out the middleman.

I tried the internet sales manager thing, and it seemed like the only purpose for the technique was to get me in the show room with an appointment and with them having advance knowledge of me. Not one internet sales guy sent me a legitimate offer, all they sent back was MSRP. After two of these, I responded in email , "Include your best offer in your next response." and I never heard from that guy again.

Same experience. All they want is to get you in the place so they can work you over. The hell with that.

I would go in to the show room with my numbers all figured out, and call them on their BS.

The internet approach is great because it takes the one element peopel struggle witht he most in negotiating our of the equation...emotion. Car dealers master the art of emotional buying/selling. They look for various buying signs, verbal and non-verbal, they use emotional tactics, they thrive off off playing you. Guess what...the internet takes all of that away. There's no emotions to be played...just a pure transaction.

I went and met with the internet sales manager at the Nissan dealer and they were surprisingly helpful - moreso than the average salesman.

but there intial price is likely higher.

they will hold value longer only because the parts the car has cost more to replace - hence it will be worth more even just for parts.

But long term reliability brand wide runs pretty close with Ford and Chevy.

are rated LOW by Consumer Reports and they look like crushable sardine tins in waiting as far as I'm concerned.

Thank You.

1991 Taurus wagon with 160,000 miles and 1997 Contour with 170,000. Never used a drop of oil, start every time. My father-in-law is a retired Ford engineer so we have always been able to get the employee price. Really pisses off the sales person - cut your best deal then when ready to sign, take out the paperwork for the employee benefit and watch them blanch. They can kiss any commission goodbye - Ford gives them a flat fee.

I agreed the Honda and Toyota resale is higher.

I disagreed the long term quality and reliability is better. The evidence does not bear that out.

If it were true you'd have extremely few older Ford and Chevys on the road and Honda's and Toyotas still on the road for 20 years. The truth is, they all tend to be more expensive to fix than to replace at about the same age/mileage -- with a few exceptions. And historically, car nuts are more likely to sink their life savings into maintaining a Ford/Chevy than any other brand (the lone exception being Honda Civic - the teenagers around here turn them into video game cars)

The easy version:
http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/103881/Top-10-Best-Resale-Value-Cars

The more complex version.

Take a Honda Civic and price it today. Price a comparable car from Ford or Chevy.

Now look at what the 2003 Civic and 2003 Ford ??? are priced at.

Find out residual value as 2003 Civic / 2009 Civic compared to 2003 Ford ??? / 2009 Ford ???

The civic is going to hold more value.

...I found the exact OPPOSITE with Honda. I used to drive Caddies and Lincolns. Honda replacement parts, service and repair cost far, far less than it ever did on any of the luxury cars I used to own and drive.

Honda Ford and Chevy compare - Acura Lincoln and Caddie compare.

Although I will give Honda credit - they have done a great job lowering the price of many replacement parts in the US. Though those parts are generally still higher than Ford or Chevy parts.

but it's their name one is paying for.

Corollas are junk. That or I was one of the unfortunate few that got one while somebody preferred to masturbate instead of putting on a gasket properly... I don't know...

181,000 miles and still going strong.

Build it on the web site. Verify options before production. Wait for my vehicle to show at dealer. Had my build invoice with exact cost, the dealer offered some additional items at dealer but did not push it when I did not want them. In and out the door in around an hour and a half after they showed me everything about the car.

but there was no haggling on the price. Sticker price is sticker price. If you want options... add those in. No wandering back to the sales manager to haggle a better price. I had financing from my credit union and that wasn't an issue. Best car buying experience I've ever had.

I still prefer Ford and I sometimes have lightweight but large cargo to transport, including quantities of people.

My next car might be a Smart Car, if all my relatives I occasionally transport die... thankfully not likely... I hope!

because of a lame salesman?

I'd never own a piece of Japanese shit.

P.S. And I'm a woman who drives a manual. I just assert myself and they acquiesce.

A 1995 Corolla, in 2003, with 70000 miles on it, should NOT leak oil.

A 1995 Corolla, in 2005, with 90000 miles on it, should NOT leak transmission fluid.

And as any number of salesmen, relatives, and friends have told me, I'm a careful, cautious driver that doesn't burn rubber. I know how to fuckin' drive, even if most cannot...

They say Honda is a good vehicle, but then I read up on the Insight Hybrid vs the Fusion Hybrid... the Fusion had a much more powerful drivetrain, smoother steering, better placement of batteries... (I ultimately did not go hybrid as cost vs gas vs maintenance vs driving locales make hybrids pointless. They really are good only if one does 98% of driving in an urban environment... I currently get 30~34MPG. An extra 6MPG for only $10,000 more - the gas payments won't begin to match the car's price difference... but that's just me, there are many for whom a hybrid makes perfect logical sense.)

I mean, if the industry can't get their shit together on the sales and marketing end then obviously they're going to lose customers. Duh. I love all of the big 3 boosters who pretend like this stuff doesn't matter. "American cars are fine but it's the perception that's bad. Japanese cars aren't as reliable as people think, etc." Well maybe so but that's the fault of the Big 3's marketing. Now maybe they don't suck quite as badly at designing automobiles as they do at sales and marketing but I'm really not in the mood to test that out.

you would have a valid argument. As it stands, not so much.

And it's a dealer owner that sets the tone.

In LA, I feel confident you can find a chevy dealer close enough to home who isn't a sexist jerk and also has a reliable service department. If it's any consolation, in my neck of the woods it's the local Honda dealer that is the worst sexist of the bunch. We are also a Ford family, but my sister swears by Honda. While here from Michigan her car finally died the big one and she decided to just replace it while she was here. She and her husband went to the local Honda store and the salesman actually, literally talked over her head to her husband as if HE were the buyer. They asked for the sales manager, who basically did the same thing. My sister was absolutely LIVID.

They went across the street and walked out 2 hrs later with a Taurus wagon (Freestyle). My sister has had it a year and is still raving about it.

So yes, one stupid salesman can lose a customer for a manufacturer forever and I wish they would get a clue.

I was 28 at the time, single, owned my own home and had a very good job. I told the guy his attitude cost him a sale.

I was out of the country on biz and she wanted to buy a mini-van for the kids. I told her to do the legwork, decide what she wants, send me the financila details to see if it made sense, etc. Once we decided to buy I told her to negotiate the deal since I was away and I wanted her to have the experience. The guy told her that she should bring her husband next time around.

I called the salesman and ripped him an ass when I heard about it. Never went back.

They DO want to sell cars, but they don't want to stuff customers with what they don't need or want.

Then again, I don't live in the broken down state ran by "Governor Groper" either...

BTW: My replacement, new car is a 2009 Ford Focus. Terrific vehicle...

No way I'd bother with Toyota again given the problems it developed and the treatment I got at their dealer for a recall (fluid reservoir tanks don't break between the time you go in for service and when you leave. Never. The Toyota worker damaged it deliberately. I'll spare the bumper stickers that were on the car at the time, but they weren't the usual immature sort such as "Jerry Falwell can suck my tinky winky". I don't play THAT game... I don't do bumper stickers any more either; seems a waste of a good car paint job...)

I laugh my ass off whenever I see re-runs of it.

OP, it's one thing to post your experience here, but you can also send it to GM, via email or snails. They actually seem to read them, and although you won't get anything out of it, the salesman might just get a bit of a reaming from the GM district rep.

And, these negative letters may cause a hit on the salesman's standing, which is very important in these days of pink slips.

It would give GM a "training opportunity".

:hi:

it is a transaction between the dealer and the Government..http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/

I was looking at the 3rd gen prius and my local Toyota dealer did not even have any..I drove a Cobalt and I really liked it and the mileage is good on them too.

try to control the deal rather than listen to the salesmen, and do a shit load of research on the car you are interested in advance. Look at cars on line, know exactly what you want to test drive and run the deal, the salesmen should be crawling up your ass to make a sale these days.

I ran into that scam when I bought mine. Got the "last one on the lot" (suspected it was BS, but didn't care, I wasn't buying it because it was the last one) and when I went back to the dealership a few days later for some reason there was another exactly like mine, parked where mine had been parked. ;)

I bought mine at the height of the gas prices last summer so maybe things have calmed down a bit. But some dealers wanted $5000 above the msrp, some $2000, etc. They were trying to play into the whole "there's a waiting list" myth. I even saw a place that had a bunch of used lease returns for sale in Santa Monica and they were listed AT MSRP. And when I confronted him about it he said "well, go down the street and you'll have to get on a waiting list for a new one." And of course down the street they had two new ones right on the lot.

A couple years ago I negotiated my mother a silver Honda CRV. "Last one in that color on the East Coast." I have no idea what that even meant. It was the most standard model of a common car in a common color. It was February. We had already agreed on the price, BEFORE it was the last silver CRV on the East Coast.

Recently bought a Mazda. Literally the last one on the East Coast, because it was a left over from 2008. However I had negotiated a reasonable price on a 2010, certain color, certain options. When I went there the salesman was on vacation, so I got another salesman who informed me that my negotiated price was for a car on the lot, and they didn't have my particular color on the lot. I felt like saying, "Look pal, I'm a girl, I care about color. Find one in my color or I walk." Which I would have done. I find that many salesman could use some brushing up on how to negotiate with women. We can take things personal sometimes. I will pay more to a guy who doesn't lie than to a guy who does. I had a guy one time try to get away with a lie by giving an additional $100 off. No thanks, you and your dealership are dead to me.

Oh, no comments about non-American cars, you will be wasting your keystrokes. I drove a Focus for work and owned a Civic. Knobs never fell off the Civic. The cupholders didn't come out with the cup on the Civic. The Focus looked like an econo-car, the Civic did not. Air conditioning was marginal on both cars. Nice little car, the Focus, but I have to live with it, inside and out, every day.

But that is screwed up.

Years ago I custom ordered a new car - the next years model, pre-ordered in July. Months went by, the lot was full of the same model I had ordered, but the dealer could/would not get mine in. Finally at the end of October, I had enough and got my deposit back even though they would have been happy to sell us one of the vehicles on the lot. I went to a different dealer and bought one off their lot - which I might have done with the first one if they had been honest with me in the first place or at any point along the line.

Are either of you in a credit union? Often credit unions can locate the exact car you want, make the deal and have it delivered. There may be other routes to do the same thing - try some internet sources. I located the used truck I now have through Cars.com and was happy to be able to shop for it at my desk rather than drive from lot to lot across the state.

I just took a look and Cars.com has a "Build your own" feature and lets you pick in how wide an area you want to search dealers and get quotes from. Go through the New Car link on the front page and try it.

I bought my 2006 truck from a dealer with a great reputation in Jan 2007. They treated me like a king, knocked $9k off from the $24k list price, then threw in another $750 off to seal the deal. It's a great truck and they still periodically call to see how things are going with it.

WTF is wrong with these people - they really do drive away customers big time.

sounds to me you're peddling foreign cars over American cars, why is that :shrug:

I've bought a wide variety of cars from various dealers and the buying experience really depends on where you buy the car. In my personal experience the more affluent the neighborhood the less bullshit you have to deal with when it comes to the "Let me talk to my manager" Tango because they know they are dealing with customers that have a certain expectation of service.

I've shopped at higher volume dealerships in more marginal neighborhoods and found that the the quality of the salesman drops significantly mostly because they flood the floor with less experienced salespeople who either have to sink or swim with the majority of them sinking and if what you want it isn't on the lot and they can't turn you to one that is then you become a liability to the salespersons end of the month numbers and you will be treated accordingly, sorry, that's just the way it is.

The buying experience at the local small-town dealer has always been more pleasant than at the big-city dealers I've dealt with. The last vehicle I bought through the big-city dealer, I dealt with 3 different sales people from the time I first inquired about a car to the time I took delivery - about 3 weeks. The first two were fired for not meeting their quota.

That would be too swift. I would liken it more to a C-clamp affixed to the crotch, being slowly tightened. I agree with your assessment that car salesmen are (as a group, with some exceptions) largely subhuman, lying pieces of garbage who are all about the initial sale and not much else. Others' mileage may vary.

On a brighter note - I just paid off my 2004 Mercury Sable this morning, and it has 48,000 miles on it. What a wonderful feeling! Now my wife and I will double up on her Toyota Yaris payments and get that bad boy paid off also.
:bounce:

we've lost two of them to crashes and the blue book value was so high the insurance company paid off both of them without any balances to roll over to the new car.

...at least I think I did. But I was buying a used Honda. Price on the sticker was $13999, but when I showed up Saturday morning, the price on the windshield was $9999. The car had some minor cosmetic damage to the paint, but otherwise drove like new. It was a busy downtown dealership, and the sales guy said that because of their size, they only keep cars 3 or 4 weeks on the lot, and if they don't sell, they send them to auction, and mine was on its last weekend, so they'd knocked $4000 off the price. It was right next to a car that was a year newer with spiffier paint, but that was marked at $14999 (or maybe higher). I'd arrived at the dealership planning to drop $18,000 on a new Fit, but I'm happy with the used one, and the deal I got.

The Civic is a far better car reliability wise and gets better gas mileage to boot.
Toyota Corolla is ok but the Civic has a little more power and is better engineered imo.

Don't know about the Cobalt but the focus is made here. Plus , at least in my case, I have always found Hondas to have too little driver feedback, everything seems made to be mushy or too light to actuate. Just me on that, though.

not American enough for you?

And even if it is made in the U.S. it likely contains parts from all over the world. Plus as far as I can tell, the people selling those Hondas are Americans and they need jobs too. Hondas consistently get high ratings for reliability, drivability, and fuel efficiency. What is not to like?

...is so vastly superior to the Chevy or Ford that it's worthwhile to drive 40 miles to buy the Toyota or Honda when I can buy a Chevy or Ford locally.

lots of them ~~ and I found that neither can hold a candle to a Honda.

I would drive 400 miles if it meant I could get a Honda instead of a Chevy or a Ford.

JMHO

turn the radio off, turn AC down.

On a lot of models, you have to order a car with manual transmission (Except on sports cars), because automatic is basically standard equipment.

I went car shopping with my great aunt last year and she also went to Chevy. She had gone to Buick (where she had been going for many years) and the salesman wasn't very helpful. So she decided to try looking at the Chevy Impala and Malibu. The salesman there was very helpful. They didn't have any vehicles in the color or style she wanted but he went and found one at another dealer for her. She was very happy with the service she receive at the Chevy dealer.

Good luck with finding a new car. I like the Cobalt. I may look at it whenever I can afford a new car.

That was a poster in my work area when I was a dealership technician. Over the years, I have seen salesmen do some incredibly stupid things like the guy who sold someone a six-cylinder Granada and told the customer the service department would swap it out for a V8 Monday morning. Or the doofus who put gasoline in a diesel truck.

But my all-time favorite is when the bank manager came in over the weekend and the regular fleet sales guys gone. The salesman who talked to this guy from the bank saw a scruffy man dressed in jeans and tee-shirt told him "you ain't no bank manager." Poor guy could have moved about 35 vehicles before lunch that day.

....and said "when you want to do business, maybe I'll be back."

Car dealers need to be treated like shit, just like they would treat you if they think they can get away with it.

mostly they were ok.

I just told him, this is what I want, and i'm going to buy this today.
When they tried to do the, how-much-payment-can-you-afford-a-month-thing....I just said...
>Look, my credit it stellar, and you let me know what the interest is going to be...and it should be LOW...and then we can talk about my payment<
...and I just kept repeating myself till he finally sent me back to the
financial dude....
eventually they had to lower the interest rate a couple of points and knock down the price also.... ha ha ha.


Kinda have to pull out the bitch act early with these kind of people to get their attention. :shrug:
Besides, I don't care about what people think of me when I'm spending that much money anyway.

Went through the same general crap that you describe here, as well as 14 years ago when I bought my first new car on my own.

Ugh... it's horrible.

...you will never regret it, IMO.

My CRV is built on a Civic frame. Best cars I have ever owned ~~ all my Hondas.

I went to a Ford dealer to look at the Ford Fusion, the salesman insisted on showing me the Ford Edge SUV - which I had absolutely no interest in.

The salesholes exact words when I said I was not interested in an SUV were "well then... if your looking for something to impress the men..."

Dealing with Honda wasn't a great deal better, since I was looking for a cash sale and everyone was trying to shove financing in my face. With the Honda dealers this meant a trip to the Acura side of the lot and the chat with how such a large down payment I could have the Acura experience for dollars a day, blah, blah, blah.

My girlfriends dad actually found my new car for me, the Honda Accord I wanted - but from a low-drama rural dealership.

...I switched to Honda in 2001 and have never regreted it. Best cars I have ever owned ~~ evah!

:hi:

I have wondered if I should have gone for the Fit or Civic instead, but I am over-all really happy with the car.

Really, the only complaint I can muster is it has an XM and not Sirius radio and switching it out for a built-in Sirius unit is obscenely expensive.

My girlfriend bought an S2000 a couple of years ago and she has been extremely happy with it.

My 1999 is ten years old now, runs great. I've only done normal maintenance on it. Bought an '08 last year since I could afford it. The 1999 is the shared/backup car for anyone in the family who needs it.

I've only had good experiences with our Hondas.

the possibilities of the internets being a way to buy a car direct from the manufacturer, and they just deliver it to a local dealership, completely cutting out the middle man... i guess the NADA grenaded that idea before it could get any real traction...

but they also want to make as much profit as they can. Buyers, on the other hand, want to pay as little as possible. Agreeing on a point somewhere in between those two extremes is the game known as negotiating. Check the TMV and any incentives from Edmund's (they also show the sticker and invoice prices); verify it against Consumerguide, NADA, Kelley Blue Book, etc.; then hook up with Sam's Club or Costco. They'll put you in touch with the local ISM and, usually, you'll get the low price without a lot of crap...unless, of course, you go to my old Toyota dealer. Seems a gang of liars, thieves, and con men bought the dealership and retained the name. It amazes me that they think anyone will believe them when they quote an invoice price that is six hundred over the real invoice. Anyway, I just got an 09 Elanatra GLS with all kinds of options and the second most pleasant car buying experience I ever had. The first was when the ISM called me for my last car and said, "$100 over invoice" - the true invoice. As others have mentioned, it also helps put you in the driver's seat(no pun intended) to be in a position of not absolutely needing a car - makes it so much easier to walk away. The Hyundai dealer actually called me on a Saturday to knock off another $340. After checking with a second dealer, who insisted the first was lying and couldn't possibly sell the car for so little, I went back to the first.

ten years 100,000 miles as a warranty standard is damned impressive.

And that is NOT an understatement. He really was the car salesman from hell. We get to the car dealership. Dude says that he doesn't have any of the model I'm interested in on the lot and we have to go to their offsite storage lot. Guy takes us on the freeway to drive to a location that you could easily get to by surface streets. And there's horrible traffic on the freeway, BTW. So we get to the storage lot - and the guy forgot the fucking key! So he had to call into the dealership to get the code for the combination lock - and that takes a total of 35 minutes (running time since we arrived at the dealership: 1:20 at this point). So he finally gets us inside the storage lot - at which point said car is nowhere to be found. So he takes us back to the dealership during which he reveals to us that he doesn't give a shit about cars and he's just doing this job for easy money. Wow. So we get back to the dealership, I ask for a brochure, the guy goes inside, completely forgets the fucking brochure, and goes and has a smoke with his other (presumably also incompetent) fellow sales people (running time: nearly over 2 hrs). At that point I was just like "get the fuck out of here" and we did. I wound up buying a Nissan instead of the Pontiac that I had planned on buying.

two I trust with my money, one screwed me so badly because I was a woman (lied about something I had no way to research) that the dealership called ME, told me they would take my car back, do anything I wanted (probably to avoid a lawsuit)...I had JUST found out the hanky panky, and they SHOULD have been worried....

My first dealer was an Oldsmobile man, when they went out he retired.

The second was the douchebag listed above

My current one I just called and said "find me these two things, call me when you do, here is my pain threshhold"..he knows I need it by no later than August 10.

Not all car salespeple are scum.

Another slaesman said that the program will not go online until November. November is when the initial funding is scheduled to run out. Lies like that.

Excellent experience. One minor problem. Brought it in, got a loaner, by the end of the day all fixed no charge.
Love the car too.

had one ask me if I ever heard "you're not suppose to trust car salesmen" when I was trying to get work done on a new car under warranty. I got very loud on the show room floor he then tried to get me to go to his office so as "not to disturb these other nice people" but we stayed on the show room floor and I got louder.:evilgrin:

About the time the BMW James Bond sports car came out, I decided to look at one. Well, I pulled up in my conservative 4-door Lincoln, 50+ year old female, wearing a biz suit and pearl earrings. Some guy who was younger than most of the clothing I own came out to help me. He told me how they came with auto ~~ I told him I was not interested. So he finally got me a stick after a few more sexist and age-ist insulting remarks, I took him on a ride that I think he wet his pants on about 3 times before took him back to the dealership. I then told them that when the car got some guts, call me....but not until then.

Asshole...:eyes:

Oh, I did forget to tell him I used to race Porsches...:evilgrin:

Edit for typo

no stick shift no sale