Seems to me my old DU is back & I love it!

I didn't learn about the new "unrecommend" until yesterday - AFTER I'd noticed that the GP was filled with things I was interested in. I searched for Skinner's initial post about it, and was really surprised at the number of people who were against it. It's too early to tell, of course, but I'd say the "Greatest Page" is filled with important and interesting things - things we should know about, and things we should be discussing. It's NOT filled with "bash Obama for every little move he makes" posts - the ones that chased me away from DU.

I'm not a blind supporter of Obama, nor do I mind constructive criticism of him - what I DID mind were all the anti-Obama posts that seemed to start even before he stepped into the office - eventually, I gave up, and checked in only once in awhile.

Before I get labeled as an Obama worshipper, I want to make it clear that I'm not happy with everything he's done - in my case, the thing that bothers me the most is his seeming to go back on his promise of transparency - the main reason I voted for him. It is upsetting, to say the least. Still, I couldn't see the purpose of so many bashing posts - I informed whitehouse.org, the DNC, and whoever was emailing me that I was giving no more donations until I saw the Democratic party actually DO something with their control of all 3 branches. I didn't want to bitch and moan on a discussion board about it - it just didn't seem to serve any real purpose, except to make it seem like we didn't support the man we voted into office. I do support him, and realize what he inherited, and I'm not making any strong judgements until more time has gone by.

Anyway, I think we'll see a lot of people like me come back to DU now. I give DU'ers more credit than some people did - I believe most of us will use that "unrec" button the way it was meant to be used, and so far that's what I'm seeing.

So, this is my belated "thank you" to the administrators of this board. I know some people don't like it, but I am loving it so far - it really, truly seems like the old DU is back and I really hope it stays that way!

it got 3 recs and 2 unrecs - and that's fine with me - it probably doesn't belong on the greatest page, anyway, all I know is I like what I'm seeing on there!

that the "unrecs" probably came from some of those who are opposed to it on the grounds that it will silence their opinions.

Some threads jump out at us as quality. Your post to start this thread has done so.

And I'm more in line with you when it comes with my view of Obama.

The fact that I don't want to see Obama-bashing posts filling up the Greatest Page doesn't mean I mind things about him that are controversial. Nice job of twisting there. At least a balance would be nice - there wasn't one. You had to search to find the things that were on the GP now - things that are far more interesting to me. I'm quite sure the critical posts that have merit will still make it on here, but maybe not your pet issue, whatever it is, over and over.

IMHO.

I find the quality has really improved. I had an open mind towards the rec/unrec change, just let's see what happens, but I find it's improved the Greatest page a LOT.

I was amazed at how many people got REALLY up in arms about it. I think it works great for the most part and it's nice to see interesting posts on the Greatest Page again.

What it looks like to me is you can say goodbye to minority opinions showing up on the greatest page. No more GLBT threads, no more gun-related threads...

Truly I am. I don't believe that those posts won't show up on here, though - especially GLBT threads, which I would be sure to recommend. I believe most of us are supporters of GLBT, and would be very disappointed if I'm wrong. If we aren't in that category ourselves, most people are touched by it in some other way - in my case, my brother and numerous friends. GLBT to me is about civil rights, and is high on my list of important things - I do hope you're wrong on that one at least, but only time will tell.

How are GLBT topics a minority opinion anyway?

And guns, well, maybe rightfully so. I have plenty of topics in which I'm interested but don't expect to see them on the Greatest Page.

I only see one GLBT topic on the greatest at the moment.

And guns, well, maybe rightfully so. I have plenty of topics in which I'm interested but don't expect to see them on the Greatest Page.

Yes, but are your topics of interests Constitutionally-enumerated rights?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x142268

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6051796

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x142268

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8525575

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6051613

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x237888

RE: Guns. Constitutionally-enumerated right or not, it's just not a topic of great concern for many Americans right now. I'm sorry that something so important to you isn't foremost on everyone's mind, but right now most people are a little more concerned about things like jobs, health care, the environment, and human rights for everyone (GLBT included).

When I go to the Greatest Page:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=greatest_threads

And search for the word "GLBT", only 1 thread shows up.

Yes, there is now one gun topic, thanks to me reccing it, but I'm sure it will be beaten down soon enough.

only one of the GLBT themed threads on the Greatest Page when this was posted was either from the GLBT forum or has "GLBT" in the headline. If it is a topic posted in a different forum and doesn't include the exact string of characters you are looking for than you won't get the hit. You probably should probably scroll through the page and glance through it rather than try to Find specific character strings.

to me that GLBT topics are interesting to most if not all DUers.

dupe

...even without the unrec feature.

Someone tried to say that yesterday about GBLT threads. That is false.

and gun threads have been getting sent to the dungeon for the better part of a decade.

If you're going to be upset, be upset at things that exist. It'll save you the acid stomach.

I didn't have the energy to go over and count them, but I knew some were up there.:thumbsup:

:)

Thank YOU very much too!!!

I am so tired of that silly argument; they tried it yesterday too.:hi:

Who thinks GLBT issues are in the minority? I suppose there are some DUers who don't care, but anyone who calls himself or herself a liberal/progressive cares about human rights for everyone.

:hi:

:D

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x142268 from GLBT

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6051007 from General Discussion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6051613 from General Discussion

:toast:

K&R

I consider that high praise.

:toast:

...yet.

:smoke:

;)

but, having you not be stoned makes it EVEN higher praise!!!! :P

Hard to believe, isn't it?

The proof is on the Greatest page.

that were so annoying and are now dropping, which was the goal of unrec. I think while they are busy canceling each other out we can get on with the actual information that brought us here in the first place.

Back to substance: :toast:

I didn't participate much in the basher-basher posts, I just stopped coming here, but your point is good. DU had been a lifesaver for me during the bush years, and it was so sad to me to see what it had become.

to be too much so I've stayed away, only checking in for news
but not contributing. But DU saved my sanity during the Bush years,
and I miss it!

Great post.

you!

get a fucking grip on their wild claims and stop spamming the board.

I am on DU more now, too. It has been too draining and I appreciate how the unrec button improved the greatest page.

than I have thus far. Kudos. I agree with you. Letting people who can ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING about things know of your displeasure is the best action.

Oh. For a minute there, I got all excited, thinking that the "old DU" was back.

Then I realized that you were just celebrating the help that "unrec" feature gives to those who want DU to be a party fan site.

Oops.

I think my OP should speak to that without my having to explain, but there are some who just can't let go of the 24/7 Obama bashing, and it appears you're one of them. Why you belong to a party you don't like (I am of course assuming that you do, because you're here), I don't understand.

Maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension skills, because you sure didn't understand my OP. That "unrec" feature gives people the opportunity to have the things they're most interested in appear on this page. I know that my post has been "unrec'd" a lot, but apparently more people than not share my opinion. "Party fan site" ? Have you seen the "Greatest Page" lately, and does it really look like a "party fan site"? That's not what I see - maybe you should take a second look.

No. I opposed Obama's nomination for good reasons (see sigline,) for reasons that have been proved correct since his election. I will continue to oppose him until he's gone, or until he impossibly morphs into a left- of center Democrat.

I'm a Democrat, but I'm not partisan. The only reason for political parties, imo, is to move issues. When my party moves to the right on issues, my party is wrong, and I will say so, loudly and often, until we get it right.

I see the greatest page every day. I don't see any improvement.

Why am I here? Interesting question, since I've been here longer than you.

I'm here for the part of DU that claims to be a "left-wing" discussion board. Not for partisan bullshit.

Why are YOU here?

I don't care how long you've been here - do you think that complaining over and over on a discussion board gets things done? You can say whatever you want, but perhaps people are tired of seeing it every single day. I remember you rudely bidding me goodbye once when I didn't actually say I was leaving.

Why am I here? To learn, mainly. To know what's going on in the world and the party. I read far more than I post, and for months coming here did nothing but depress me, so I stopped. I'd check in every couple of weeks, and see the same old stuff over and over, and I thought the name should be changed to anti-obama underground. Then two days ago, I popped in and saw a whole new page. I'm obviously far from alone in my thinking.

I know you're never wrong, and I also know how good you are with the personal insults, and for that reason I really don't want to respond to you anymore. You don't like it - I do. We just have different tastes, and obviously different reasons for being here, so lets just leave it at that.

it has to do with your presumption in assigning motives as to why I am here.

You don't know anything about me. Please post a personal insult, if you can find it.

You won't.

If you "don't want to respond anymore," my practical suggestion is that you don't.

...if you like Vanilla.
Vanilla may be bland, but it IS safe and non-controversial.
Just right for the Middle of the Herd.

I prefer Jalapeno.

and ginger and even black cardamoms. :)

Many people here have expressed concerns about Obama, Democratic Senators, etc and are good, solid members of the Party.

so whether or not someone like you calls someone else DLC doesn't change the immediate style differences in DU now that the "Greatest" page looks a lot more sane.

You have ZERO credibility.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8469837

that the DLC was "history," "irrelevant," "powerless," etc., etc., etc...

I also remember quite clearly that Obama got the votes from the left, in the primary, because he was "not DLC."

I also remember agreeing with one vocal DLC member that Obama's platform was a DLC wet dream, and that the DLC would be happy with him if he were elected.

I don't care if you call it DLC, "centrist," or "New Democrat," as Obama eagerly aligned himself with.

I call them ALL corporatists, and they are destroying the party and the nation's opportunity to heal.

It's now "fashionable" to BE dlc/centrist/new dem/corporatist at DU, and there is nothing positive about that.

Having started by browsing the greatest since it's been there, I don't see anything more "sane" about it.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

:hi:

:wow:

:rofl:

:popcorn:

IMHO. Apparently some people never read anything here other than the Greatest Page, so they're missing a lot.

Not a vote.


This is not democratic at all. No one knows what the total tally is.


The UnReck should include a Kick to make sure people consider their action before :nuke:

Seems to me that it doesn't make much sense to have a tally for Recs but not for Unrecs. All one side has to do is calculate how many unrecs it takes to railroad a thread this way. It prevents a counter from those who agree with the thread enough to Rec.

Granted it makes every thread into some stupid pissing match but it has been at that point since the Primaries anyway.

Rp

the number of unrecs is necessary help anyone? like recommends, only 1 unrecommend is allowed per poster, per thread. "Rallying the troops' is against the rules, so I don't get how calculation that a thread needs 3 or 4 more unrecs to keep it off the greatest page will help.

Just to unrec something off the greatest page. I think it's useful to have the unrec tally out there for transparency's sake.

Rp

I suggest you alert. you do seem a bit paranoid about this, though.

who are upset about this. Take a look at Greatest. It looks a hell of a lot better without rants, photo threads and the general silliness that used to be there. I may actually utilize it now.

you honestly didn't notice the unrec until...YESTERDAY????

no offense but have you been in a cave?

there were massive flame wars going on, duplicate threads, copy cat threads, reference threads, cloaked threads, gloved threads and even threats on the unrec BS with it's own hat!!!

you couldn't swing a dead cat around here without hitting one of these inane threads.

wow.

You would have seen that inane things basically chased me away - I went from a "have to check DU everyday" and spending hours on here to popping in every couple of weeks, looking around for a few minutes, and leaving. So, no I don't live in a cave, I just wasn't coming here much anymore. I DID however see enough "inane threads" to last me a lifetime!

PS: I really like your style of writing - it's really descriptive in a funny way!

I jumped the gun.

As you can tell, I'm a bit tired of the endless stream of rec/unrec threads.

Thanks for the compliment!

Cheers.

I could kind of tell....:)

Recommend if you like ice cream! Free Ice Cream.

Going to unrec ice cream every time.

Those threads won't go away because they're popular.

:kick:

and frenzied OPs accusing others (without specifics or evidence) of "Obama Bashing" were far more evident than actual Obama bashing. One particular forum was consumed by it.

So be it. A chilling effect will work much better for everyone.

and I understand why they made it. They were upfront about it. A majority seem happy/accepting of it.
Seems settled.

except for the reasons, the need and the actual problem this is supposed to solve. It was quite vague. Some here didn't know there was some crisis on GD that needed fixing. And still don't.

I mean, personally, I think this kind of thing should be on the Greatest Page (or the Hottest Page, at least) because this is what DU is really talking about.

But if Skinner says he wants the Greatest Page to focus on the things that unite us (as opposed to those that divide us), this thread's appearance (along with WillPitt's and LynneSin's) demonstrates that the new unrec function is not doing its job.

This topic, obviously, is dividing us. If unrec worked, this thread would not appear on the Greatest Page.

:dem:

-Laelth

I didn't expect the attention this thread got, or the rec's - although I can tell you there were a LOT of unrec's, too. One thing it proves is it's not a popularity contest - I've probably written only 5 OP's in my entire time here, and I'm not at all well known.

I hope you do not take my having replied in the way I did as an attack on you or, even on what you had to say. I am glad the unrec function is working well for you at the moment. It just irks me (as a liberal and an attorney--it seems negative, even hostile, and it smacks of censorship and tyranny of the majority). Of course, that's just me. Obviously, it is not bothering the majority of those who post here.

I should add that you make an interesting point about popularity. It seems clear that the popularity of the idea drives recs and unrecs more than the popularity of the person (though you may not give yourself enough credit, there). :)

Thanks for the response.

:dem:

-Laelth

I didn't think of it as an attack at all - it was obviously well thought out, and you were stating your very valid opinion. I happen to disagree with part of it, but we're all entitled to our opinions.

I think if it were not a Democratic board, I might agree about tyranny and censorship, but I just can't see it. It's the majority of Democrats here (at least one hopes) who agree with me. I admit I'm a bit less to the left than many on here, but I still consider myself to be quite liberal, but also maybe too realistic. I had a very good idea of who I was voting for when I voted for Obama - I studied him very carefully, so many things don't surprise me. The transparency thing did, though and I wrote to whitehouse.org about it, as well as putting it on every solicitation I get from the party (along with saying I won't donate another cent until I see them doing what they were elected to do with control of all 3 branches). They really don't have any excuses anymore, so eventually we'll see who the true Dems are and who needs to have a challenger next election.

My problem with DU was that overnight it seemed to turn to anti-obama underground. It wasn't just a LITTLE - it filled up the greatest page every time I came here. It was more than disconcerting, it was depressing - we worked so hard to get him elected, and suddenly he's "Bush 2" or "Bush lite". He's a politician, but I still think he was the best of the lot. I donated to Edwards, too, but I always thought he was rather a chameleon(sp?), and as it turned out it would have been a disaster if he'd won the nomination. I think we can only hope to change Obama by letting him know when we don't agree, and maybe instead of constantly bitching about him, some organized letter writing and things like that could be done.

At any rate, I don't mean to write a book here - I just don't see it the way you do, and that's ok. I'm fine with disagreements and arguments, just not ridiculous attacks.

As for the popularity thing - it's true, really - I think the only person I really "know" anymore is Kurovski, wherever the hell he is, and he'd probably disagree with me, too! :)

There has been a lot of Obama-bashing, and it has been unseemly. While I haven't participated in much of that, I am sympathetic with those on the left who are frustrated with the slow pace of progress.

That said, and without writing a book myself (and not to hijack your thread), I just wrote a new OP that I would be honored if you could read and consider.

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6061846

Thanks for the kind reply. :)

:dem:

-Laelth

you captured perfectly why I was leaving in frustration.

:)

I much prefer mud-wrestling over "disagreements". It seems so much more civilized.

I was wondering where you were, and I swear I'll never again start a rumor about Obama's "mom jeans" or how his being left-handed means his birth certificate was forged by Satan in hell, or nothing like that ever, ever again. :hug:

This is the first I'd seen of the "unrecommended" feature. So much for my ever getting a pointlessly idiotic and irritating thread on the Greatest Page ever again.

It was a swell run while it lasted. :loveya:

This thread has 74 replies and +71 recommends, with around 1600 views. You applaud the feature.

Compare this thread, which has 87 replies and <0 recommends, with around 1700 views. It attacks the feature.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6052278

Both threads have seen about equal views and replies, but yours is the clear Greatest Page winner. That's just DUers voting their preferences.

Like you, I think it's great, and once again, I applaud you for this thread. It's awesome.

Theoretically, you get a thread that had 207 recs and 203 unrecs. The post obviously resonates with a lot of people.
A post like that should be made available to the larger group -- especially, as many DUers (like myself) live and work overseas and there are many things that happen we miss out on were it not for the front page.
I have yet to see very many threads covering GLBT issues on the front page anymore.
In addition, there is a group of people who come here everyday and spend countless hours on the DU. They use their 'free-time' to make endless numbers of posts and get really outraged if anyone posts on something they don't like -- thus they carry a lot of weight on this site.

I disapprove of the unrec because, like it or not, it gives more weight to cliques.
I am finding that other sites, especially crooksandliars, gives more comprehensive info.

and they can be gamed to keep them off the greatest or the front page.

making trivial issues like "I like ice cream" appear there. All you needed was a clique of 5 friends to get your "My favorite brand of toilet paper" on the Greatest Page.

unrecs keep some threads from getting seen.

At least if a post makes it to gratest page people can ARGUE whether it belongs there or not and has to post to get their opinion out there.

With the unrec feature people can simply kill exposure of an issue at all.

You cannot marginalize ANYONE or ANY ISSUE with the rec feature

but you sure can with the unrec feature

...so it stands alone. It's good to see the Greatest Page without all the Michael Jackson posts, Sarah Palin posts, and "Rec this if you like kitties".

unrecs keep some threads from getting seen.

At least if a post makes it to gratest page people can ARGUE whether it belongs there or not and has to post to get their opinion out there.

With the unrec feature people can simply kill exposure of an issue at all.

You cannot marginalize ANYONE or ANY ISSUE with the rec feature

but you sure can with the unrec feature

I saw this post before I saw wraith's.

Was skeptical about it, but it was the balm that DU needed to get some of the garbage off the screen.

Doesn't mean we won't continue holding President Obama's feet to the fire -- but it does show a more balanced picture of his supporters.

If you like the "unrec" feature you're an Orwellian double plus ungood speaker and foe of all that will put the world, DU and the Internet in quantum karmic balance.

And it's quite good to see that particular circumstance find remedy.

See my post further down.

I posted a poll to see what happens and every time it gets close to five recs it gets unrecc'ed

I avtually appreciate the OP's position.

But some issues WILL get marginalized and organized gaming will keep some threads from seeing much light at all.

I oppose the rec feature for that reason.

As I've said before though, it may make sense that the GP reflects the broadest DU perspective. At the same time, I find it a fairly embarrassing reflection on DU that it has resorted to an "unrecommend" feature as a mechanism for suppressing dissent.

It's every bit as possible for as many threads of the kind YOU want to see to make it to the greatest page - actually more threads that YOU want to see should always be there if they do indeed reflect majority opinion on DU. Three should be more people around to recommend those threads to the top.

But of course, now with the unrecommended feature, an option for actually ]suppressing points of view by running around unrecommended other threads. So now, not only can the majority have its own say on GP by simply having the majority, but it can also run around and ensure that no other point of view gets heard. Ever.

That seems pretty silly to me.

But frankly, I'll live either way.

I would recommend any post that I thought was worthy of it, dissent or no dissent. The fact is IMO so many of the posts before weren't worthy. I have not yet used the unrec feature, and intend to use it rarely and carefully. I would like to think that most of us are mature enough to do that. I know there are probably threads that don't make it now, but most of them probably shouldn't. DU had become to me the anti-obama underground, and it really bothered me, and apparently a lot of people, yet I stated in my OP something rather negative about Obama that troubles me.

It just doesn't have to be anti-obama, anti-democrat 24/7 - I think the good posts will still be here, but a lot of nonsense posts won't. You're still free to post whatever the hell you want to - it just may not be what other people think is important. When I posted this today, I had no idea it would get ANY recs - in fact, is anyone ever sure? I guess people agree with me more than they disagree. If people "run around unrecommending posts" that are important, obviously they need to grow up, but really talk of dissent and supressing is kind of premature I think. It's just not anti-obama underground anymore.

you have no idea how else this feature will work out for other issues and to date, you haven't cared enough to figure it out. Is that fair?

In fact I can't even figure out where you got that one from - it's a pretty big leap. I've spoken to that, in particular GLBT in my posts in this thread. When I looked on the GP yesterday I can't say I saw all that many Obama posts, but I did see a lot of Cheney posts, Supreme Court, prosecution posts, etc. Try looking at the Greatest Page again.

until you get way down into 12 votes. There were 11 threads from the smaller forums yesterday, also way down at the bottom. Whatever. I asked Skinner about that. I'm sure the admins are thinking about it.

I don't like big loud screaming Obama or Dem bashing threads or anyone bashing threads on the GP, either. That part of the fix worked really well.

And recommend the ones I think need to be seen. I still haven't used the unrec button at all, but will do my part to make the posts from the smaller forums get the recs they deserve. I know there's concern about the GLBT posts dropping, and I've been seeking those posts out already, but now you'll have me looking for more from the smaller groups. Thank you.

about this change and I rained on that. I'm glad you are enjoying what the guys are doing.

It might be a good idea to stop in at the issue forums to make sure the improvements are working for them, too. :hi:

And I will make a point of doing that, too! :hi:

:shrug:

no disrespect.

Just because we have different opinions?

The new system is working!! It's keeping the sewage threads out of the Greatest Page.

throughout this thread - I really had no idea it would get this kind of response! :hi:

the tribe has spoken!

Here is what I think is the central argument:

1. DU is great again - it can only be the unrecommend feature
2. I am not Obama worshiper. Posts critcal of Obama ruined the site and drove me away.
3. Unrecommending posts critical of Obama has made this site "better" and we should keep critical thoughts to ourselves like I do because otherwise it is just just bitch and moan.
4. I haven't been a regular visitor for a while, but based on only a few short days of censorship, i.e. the unrecommend feature, the site is great again!

OK. No offense, but...

I don't agree that posts critical of Obama take away from the value of this web site and should be unrecommended (I think that is the OPs rationale for the perceived improvement). To be sure, I've carefully detailed these shortcomings only as replies. I don't dare make a critical original post, however. It will be emotionally attacked by the Obamanauts.

Someone ran an informal survey asking for grades A to F for Obama. My daughter and I ran statistics on 108 or so grades. They were a solid B. More than he deserves at the moment. I guess since he didn't get an A, DU needed to fix things.

When Obama goes back on wire tapping or offers amnesty for torture, I don't agree that we should "look forward". The impact of this will be over time to skew posts to sanguine fluff instead of thought provoking analysis. Censorship of posts critical of Obama is hostile and smacks of group think and turns DU into a simple propaganda tool. I thought this was a web site for democrats and issues about democrats.

I think some people use this as social networking site. We already have Huff Post and other sites that overflow with "tit" stories and associated comments that are pure fluff. The current presidency has more riding on it than any election in history. We need transparency. The demands for transparency should not be made behind closed doors or censored because we are too weak to tolerate reasonable criticism.

To those out there who worked your butts off getting out the votes - keep up the pressure for change, this is no time to sit back and wait and see what happens! Turn off the autopilot, do your research and let's hear from you on DU~!

I don't have a problem with posts critical of Obama - I DO have a problem with posts critical of Obama filling up the greatest page. Not about the issues you mentioned, or I mentioned, but about ridiculous things and rumors later proven untrue. Nor do I stay silent all the time. You picked and chose from what I wrote, and you also took it out of context. I do think that the 24/7 bashing of Obama was totally unnecessary. I get the idea after one or two posts about the same thing.

You posted: 1. DU is great again - it can only be the unrecommend feature
My answer: Maybe that one is true - unless people suddenly started posting quality posts again, I would have to say it's the unrecommend feature.

2. I am not Obama worshiper. Posts critcal of Obama ruined the site and drove me away.

My answer: I guess this is true, too, but not in the way you mean it. See my first paragraph.

3. Unrecommending posts critical of Obama has made this site "better" and we should keep critical thoughts to ourselves like I do because otherwise it is just just bitch and moan.

My response to this one: Total bullshit. There was a "critical thought" in my OP and if the greatest page hadn't been filled with what someone else referred to as "sewage posts", I would have joined in the discussion on that one. After reading the greatest page, I couldn't bring myself to add to the anti-obama underground, and decided to take what little action I could instead. I don't mind critical posts with substance, and I do think it would be nice if we could discuss those things, and also maybe try to take what actions we can about them.

4. I haven't been a regular visitor for a while, but based on only a few short days of censorship, i.e. the unrecommend feature, the site is great again!"

Well, sort of. I don't see it as censorship, I see it as more reflective of what most people want to see making it to the greatest. I seem to be far from alone in my thinking, so I guess a lot of people must like what you refer to as "censorship". Keep in mind that I didn't even know about the unrec feature when I checked in and saw a huge change in what was on the page. Cheney posts, "can we prosecute now" posts, CIA posts, Supreme Court, and even today a couple of posts critical of Obama for what I consider to be good reason. And, yes, I like it a whole lot better now.

For me, it's never been a "social networking" site - it's been a site I could learn a lot from, express my opinion, and saved my sanity throughout the bush years. I rarely missed a day coming here, and could get lost for hours just reading. That changed sometime shortly after, or maybe even before, Obama took office. I wasn't learning anything at all anymore.

So, twist what I said however you want, and I'm sorry if you don't like what appears to be the demise of "anti-obama underground" - it won't change the fact that I and apparently many others think the site IS great again, and I feel at home here again.

First, thank you for your reply.

My exceptions to your logic are easily understood.

"I didn't want to bitch and moan on a discussion board about it - it just didn't seem to serve any real purpose, except to make it seem like we didn't support the man we voted into office. I do support him, and realize what he inherited, and I'm not making any strong judgements until more time has gone by." ... "So, twist what I said however you want, and I'm sorry if you don't like what appears to be the demise of "anti-obama underground"

If you had made the center of your argument around "pointless posts in general" (I mostly agree with this point) rather than the "anti-obama" posts (I emphatically disagree with you on this point) I'd have no quarrel.

The older I get the more I recognize the new democratic party could have easily been called republican 30 or 40 years ago. Critical comments about Obama do not mean we are unpatriotic or that we don't support him. We all spent considerable time and a whole lot of money doing what we could to get him elected. It is time to hold him accountable. Many of us are not going to wait until it is too late. Even if it makes for difficult or uncomfortable reading. The pressure for change is there, we need action now (2010 mid term focus is now) or people are going to sit the nest election out and the swing back to the right will begin again. The right-wing is pulling us more and more to the right. As they continue to move democrats rightward, the republicans need to stake out new territory. That's why they are falling off the cliff. We (i.e democrats) have become so conservative, we've diluted their power so they are in search of greener fields. Those of us most critical of Obama are old enough for perspective and can see how the republicans have been successful moving America to hard right. And we see this influence over the new whitehouse as well.

Anyway, calling it bitch and moan and anti-obama, can be emotionally satisfying on the surface but name calling and labeling like this is completely unconstructive.

Of course, like everything else in the universe it has its drawbacks too.

A few days ago I posted an article about anti-Muslim bigotry and immediately after it hit 5 Recommends and made it to the greatest page - some miscreant went and unrecommended it and pushed it off the greatest page. But the post obviously reflects the consensus opinion that bigotry is wrong and it quickly gained a few more recommends and was back on the greatest page again.

No one is prevented from posting what they want as long as it falls within the broad criteria of what is acceptable. It is simply a question that for greatest page status, it should reflect a certain degree of consensus.

But I still wonder how it would have worked if it had been in practice during the Presidential Primaries last year??

For now, I think it is probably a very good idea and is working well.

Or perhaps more people geniniuely like this feature here at DU.

As for people who oppose this feature - you have about 15-25 very vocal DUers who feel that it is a function that will allow the DLC, Corporate PR folks, freepers and right-wing DUers to take over DU. However, I've found that honestly, most people just like it and want to see the truly important stuff with great content make the DU home page. I have a feeling this feature is here to stay and thank goodness. I love looking at the greatest page again.

Now I'm using it again. Thumbs up and two snaps for the unrec feature!

I guess I'm Old School - I remember DU before the 'Greatest Page'. Back then you could write an article and submit it to the admins and they would pick the best stuff and post it on the DU homepage. But you have to imagine how much work that could get reading what everyone submitted. Their idea was to allow DUers to determine what makes the DU home page, which worked out great at first but degraded somewhere around 2006 or so when the presidential primaries were just starting. I think people realized that they could push their candidate (which wasn't a bad thing) or smear another candidate (which was ridiculous) by putting the posts out there and then getting all the supporters to start kicking the thread until it hit the home page. By late 2007, early 2008 the Greatest Page became a joke filled with smears (and btw it wasn't just one group of supporters who did this - everyone was guilty). You'd see the DU home page with horrible smears on Clinton or Obama and there was nothing you could do to counter that.

I do not want to suppress the voice of anyone here at DU but I'd just like to see the Greatest Page have articles that have a wide appeal to all Democrats. And so far I like what I see. People swore freepers or centrist democrats would abuse the system but everything I've seen has shown that to not be the case. And I think once you get into the forums, most DUers aren't too concerned about REC count. There is much more factoring that decides what posts I read or don't read.

I do not believe the current system will fix the problem you describe, but it's clear your goals closely match what the admins said they wanted to accomplish in instituting this change.

We shall see what happens.

:dem:

-Laelth

The greatest threads there have a bit more substance to them. I think my biggest annoyance was this "K&R if you believe in <insert your pet cause here>". The subject would have very little information as to why I should support that cause.

Personally, if my post is 'greatest page worthy' then I don't need to beg people to "K&R" - it'll get there on it's own merits.

Mine are almost always controversial. They'll never get there. Not any more. :rofl:

:dem:

-Laelth

Yesterday I started 2 threads in GD that had pretty decent reply count. One thread was my thoughts on DUers using the term "Pro-life" to describe those idiots who won't let women decide what is best for their own bodies (they are anti-choice). That thread got well over 50+ recommendations.

My 2nd thread was about who folks thought should be the 2016 Dem nominee for president. I guess people aren't ready to think that far ahead and that ended up with a <0 recommendation.

Oddly enough though, the 2016 nominee thread had more replies that the 'pro-life' thread.

Once folks get off the Greatest Page, they dont' really care that much about recommendation count. If the topic is something of interest - people will post and reply regardless of what others think.

You and I both know that a thread on the Greatest Page gets 2x to 5x the exposure of an ordinary thread in GD.

Ultimately, the benefits of this change may outweigh the harm done by it. If so, the admins made a good decision, but I still feel harmed as a person who likes to advance minority opinions in thoughtful threads that attract a significant readership and generate discussion. I can't pretend that this change doesn't cause harm of any kind. It does. I merely hope the benefits outweigh that harm.

I hope that makes some sense.

:dem:

-Laelth

It was to promote ideas that appeals to a wide variety of DUers; showcase what DUers thought was the best of the best. However, over the years the system was manipulated to put ideas that had a very limited appeal on the greatest page. And I'm not saying that you or I or for most part 95% of DUers have ideas that have limited appeal. But there have been some stuff out there that a small group of DUers could get pushed on the DU homepage knowing that if they could get 50 or so recs then they acheived their goal. However, if 100 people didn't agree with what was being said, even after reading what the OP had to say, then we had no voice on whether this was worthy of the greatest page. If anyone's voice was every stifled it was limiting those who disapproved a voice for what could be on the DU home page.

I know that for a small group of DUers this still makes no sense but for most of us it's nice seeing top stories on DU and ideas that show the poster put some work into what they wrote.

I remain skeptical, of course, but that's my nature. ;)

Thanks for the responses.

:dem:

-Laelth

Timely action when faced with questions of right and wrong does.