Has My Senator (Leahy) Gone Completey NUTS?

Senator Leahy is WRONG. 100% Wrong. His arguments make no sense. They are illogical and unexplainable. It's hard not to think he's mentally unstable when you hear some of the things he says.




He claims he wants to uncover the truth about what the Bush administration did, whether it's spying on Americans illegally, breaking international treaties, torturing, or intentionally lying to Congress. Sounds good. So far, we're on board, Pat...!

Now here is where he loses all rational reasoning: If/when any crimes are uncovered, he wants to let the perpetrators go free - just hand them a "get out of jail free card" without them even asking for it, and without getting anything in return. And somehow this will prevent future acts from being committed.

Is Leahy losing his marbles?

Leahy has said that granting immunity to people who have committed serious crimes will prevent people from committing similar crimes in the future. Leahy has said that somehow just getting people to admit what they did will prevent others from doing it. This just makes no sense. Zero. In fact the opposite is true. If you reveal what people did, and let them go, it's a GREEN LIGHT for people in the future to do it again. In fact they'll push the envelope even a little more next time, after learning how easy it is to get away with it. DUH!?

Leahy seems to think that the criminal justice system is not the proper forum for investigating and prosecuting crimes, and Congress should do it instead. This one comes as a real shocker because Leahy himself is a former prosecuting attorney. He's made all kinds of statements like "no one is above the law." Well, the way the system is supposed to work, is that when someone breaks the law they're supposed to be prosecuted in a court. I think I learned that back in 4th grade. If he could just remember back to his days as an attorney (maybe his memory is starting to slip?) he would know that we have a criminal justice system, and the very purpose of this organization is to investigate crimes and deal with perpetrators according to prescribed procedures. There are laws. There are sentencing guidelines. There are people called judges, juries, and lawyers who have built their entire careers around this type of stuff. Congress, on the other hand, has the primary purpose of passing laws. They're only supposed to step in with something like this as a "balance of power" thing, when one of the other branches of government isn't doing its job. NOT to step in BEFORE someone has a chance to do their job, which is what Leahy seems to want to do now that Holder is considering doing his job.

Many people have said we shouldn't "bog down the congress" with an investigation when there are many problems that they need to be working on. This is true. Well having Congress handle this instead of a special prosecutor, would ENSURE that it would turn into a partisan pony show. Anyone who thinks the Republicans are going to go along with it and do anything but complain that it's a witch hunt has not been watching american politics for the last 20 years. It WILL bog down congress, it will create more partisanship, and it will accomplish almost nothing.

In a nutshell, rather than letting the Justice Department do its job, my Senator, a former prosecutor, wants to immunize serious criminals and bog down congress in a partisan "truth commission" that will accomplish nothing but show future criminals there is no price to pay for these types of crimes. All while he's saying conflicting/opposite things like "no one is above the law" and "we want to send a serious message to people in the future who might consider doing these types of things" (paraphrased).

Has he completely lost his mind? With all due respect to my Senator, these irrational illogical statements warrant a serious mental evaluation.

He's not losing his mind. It is a lack of spine.

I don't think it's lack of spine. If it were lack of spine, he could easily just shut the hell up and stay out of it and let it be someone else's problem. I think the fact that he's speaking so much about it and trying to set up this Immunity Party indicates he's either nuts or he's trying to cover up something.

when the truth is essential is indeed a pure form of spinelessness.

The best case scenario is the House holds hearings or there's a joint House-Senate investigation panel...the findings of those hearings are then passed along to the DOJ for further action. The line here is what's political and what's criminal. We saw this in Watergate where revelations in the joint-committee hearings in 1973 led the DOJ to prosecute several of Nixon's henchmen...some for lying to Congress.

The situation here is so widespread...the crimes in so many areas, no one investigation will begin to crack into the criminality. I would like AG Holder to name a special prosecutor...and maybe both the revelations and outrage over cheney's secret programs will prompt the action. But Congress also has its work to do and should name a joint House-Senate panel, just like Watergate and hold hearings. Again...any findings of criminality should then be refered to the DOJ and a Grand Jury for further action.

I agree with you that throwing immunity around defeats any real investigation...if you did a crime, you do some time...thus I'd like to see the DOJ squeeze up...go after the lower ranking aparachniks and offer plea bargains to flip. Immunity is like a pardon...too easy to abuse.

Cheers...

granting immunity to people who have committed serious crimes will prevent people from committing similar crimes in the future

Would he use the same logic to support not prosecuting burglars or kidnappers?

n/t

how dare they? btw, immunization in criminal cases happens frequently.

so they give the smaller ones immunity to testify against them. They don't just immunity with no strings attached, for no reason other than "Let's put this behind us."

he said he respects Holder and supports his right to make that decision, and gave the reasons why he disagreed with it. He didn't call the people who disagreed with him crazy, that would have reduced his credibility.

immunizing less important figures could give us the evidence against bush and cheney.

Not only that but Leahy is one of the very few Senators who's actually backed any kind of investigation into bushco.

Leahy has said he would grant immunity to everyone who testifies. And he also has said he's against criminal prosecutions, and that just having people testify in a public forum will show people in the future that you can't get away with it. that is a completely illogical statement. they DO get away with it when all they have to do is testify! it teaches the OPPOSITE of what he's saying.

and a grand jury. Law were definitely broken, go through the criminal justice system and just do the job.

As far as I can see, Hearings in the recent past have yielded nothing in the way of Justice. They perverted the entire Justice Department with their political hirings through Monica Goodling - what happened to her? Nothing. Lurita Doan appeared to have committed a zillion Hatch Act violations - what if anything happened to her? What has happened so far with the politization of the USA's ?

Even independent counsels apparently have ineffective countermeasures if defendants decide to "throw sand in the umpire's face".

There is no will to uphold the Rule of Law, plain and simple.

1. Gone completely nuts

2. He's in someone's pocket

3. Someone knows where the bodies are buried

4. He has a family he's worried about