Who here thinks the "Whining" meme re unrec is an organised talking point?

I'm just saying that it looks that way.

Will this thread end up with a bunch of "whining" remarks in it?

IMHO. Anonymous invisible unreccing sucks the monkey big time.

:)

is imposible!

for whiner-sympathy reasons.

Either way, it's a lollercoaster ride.

Wheels within wheels within wheels...

doG forbid ANYONE not "approve" of the latest narcissistic and redundant OM ... and neverfuckingmind that 'recommend/unrecommend' is often about the whole fucking thread.

the concept of "unrecommend," that is.

I always thought not finding something interesting and then going on to read something else was my "unrecommend." Not need to formalize it.

I'm just gonna go on "Recommending" those OPs that I find significant. They're still out there.............................

Sometimes, when I see a post I really like and think others might like I click "recommend."

Conversely, sometimes I'll read a post that I think is BS and/or a waste of time so I'll click "unrecommend," which is my way of saying not recommended.

Most of the time I do neither.

Either way, I don't see what the big deal is. All things considered, it's hardly something that should make or break somebody's day.

:hi: Simply affirming something with a recommendation or a neutral or disinterested POV is SOOOOOOOoooooo 20th Century!!

the admin has spoken. the majority seems to agree. even some anti-Obama threads have made it high, high in the greatest page in this era of unrec, so if you write your accusations against Obama administration there's still hope for you.

And you have no idea if he's ever accused Obama of anything other than being elected.

lol

That's too funny.

The site owners have made the decision.

Get over it.

It seems the ones bitching about it the most are those that brook no dissent from their point-of-view, and then declare everyone else is 'censoring' them in some way.

And, yes, not accepting the new feature as part of this website, as per the administrators decision, is definitely whining.

Do they accuse dissenters of "bitching" and "whining"?

I only observe.

And, yes, if they cannot accept the reality of a decision, continually carping on it is less than constructive.

It devolves into picking the same scab, over and over.

The subject needs to be let go. It is a fait accompli, and the admins seem to want to keep the feature, so...

that carp continuously for us. Thanks!

Do your own work, many different posters, all with the exact same gripe.

Thanks!

See, I can be a snarky asshole, too!

You know who those posters are, it's the same bunch that won't let it go because they can't get their way.

Thanks again!

Maybe you're reading some parallel DU.

Seems paranoia is creeping in to some people that won't accept that maybe what they are posting is drivel, or their premise is weak, or maybe just plain dumb, and their tender egos can't take the bruising punishment of disapproval from anonymous posters on an internet message board.

Oh, on this DU.

:shrug:

Claiming being "negative" as a positive is pathetic and bizarre to those who aren't that petty.

The reactions and reasons presented as supposedly those of the opposition -- as you've done here -- only reflect the small minded attitudes of those imagining such crap. That's how THEY think.

Sad.

I put your post in as evidence.

I can't get my way, so everyone else must be wrong, as my opinion is the only valid one, and your point of view is dismissed out of hand.


Sad.

This is how I see it, regarding the 'rec/unrec' issue. Some posters have used it to push a certain agenda, idea, or issue to get on the Greatest Page. With only five recs, bingo, you get your post to the homepage of DU and many see it first, before going to whatever post or forum the frequent. Many times it was always the same few posters that got to the greatest page within seconds of being posted, and it seems that there was a concerted effort to push them there, by the same few.


It seemed to me that this was an organized effort done by those posters that had a definite agenda to make sure their post got to the Greatest page.

Now, not only can those who agree with the premise, subject, or conclusion in an OP have a voice, but those that disagree now have one, also.

Either way, there is no issue of censorship as many have claimed. I see posts with vast amounts of negative comments in the body, no positive recs, and still on the first page of the forum listings for days, even...just not on the Greatest page.

to be expected from a segment of posters. Reflexive internet ugly.

:shrug:

You're imagining things.

Do you need a beginner's course in how memes work and perpetuate themselves?

Edit: looks like I'm not the only one who thought "persecution complex", LOL at the funny refutation of the OP

It seemed unnatural, orchestrated, and unusually snarky--even for DU.

That's how I started noticing that the same people were bashing Dennis Kucinich in a way that was suspect for members of a Democratic board to act. A disproportionate number of people were being disproportionately nasty to him---and all in the same way, using the same terms and reasoning .

Something is very unnatural about the overreaction to the complaints about "unrec", and I've started threads to that effect right from the getgo.

I said it then, unrec gives those who blog in groups disproportionate power to knock things down or off of the greatest page. Thus the orchestrated reaction. Every time I tried to point out how important the greatest page was to people who only had a brief time to browse, I was met with another unnatural wave of "whining" claims. Now the claim was that people only whined about how unrec affected the greatest page b/c they "had fragile egos, and needed the greatest page to reassure them."

No, as snarky as this place has been at times, that's still unnatural behavior. I think we're seeing the new DU as well as the new Democratic Party under Obama. Infiltrated.

YOU are the minority here who thinks it's your right to impose your vision of the site on everyone else, even the site owner. YOU think your estimation of a thread is the only valid one.

How hard is it for you to understand that most of us think most threads suck?

It doesn't seem natural.

Honestly, I don't really care about the way unrec is working out right now, so much as I'm curious as to why the unnatural response I'm seeing. I've been right about this before, and I think I'm noticing the same pattern. Not enough to be 100%, but I feel like there's something really unnatural about the forcefulness of the strawman and ad hominem attacks on certain points here lately.

Some observers will joke, "What else is new?", but I really think there's some orchestration going on with some of these posts lately. Usually it's from the pro-Obama, DLC, pro health industry perspective, and it's the same tidal wave of strawmen, ad hominems, and accusations of "whining" from the same people.

I know I'm making an educated guess, but this hasn't been consistent with even the most strident rhetoric on DU over the years. Something is very, very fishy about these latest waves of attack on people.

When you use terms such as "strawman" and "ad hominem attacks" they should mean what the terms imply. You have used both terms, and used them wrongly. Those who find the unrecommend feature a positive are not engaging in either. They are responding to the straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks by those whose feathers are ruffled over the change to the Recommend system.

Your argument, for example, is a straw man argument. You set up as your straw man the argument that some sinister force is coalescing to attack your imaginary, virtuous posters who only seek to do God's work here at DU - those poor, beaten down defenders of the Recommend-only faith.

The only thing fishy going on is the unbridled fits by the handful of posters who hate the unrecommend feature because they can't stand being graded unworthy of the Greatest page for their weak ass threads.

:shrug:

implemented the feature?

:tinfoilhat:

I think a lot of people have a big issue with tangible proof that someone doesn't think their thread should necessarily be voted to the Greatest page.

regardless of the Greatest Page.

I actually think the Unrec discussions/arguments are an entertainment break compared to some of the other flameouts.

You get a kick and a :thumbsdown:

So :P

... about organized, but the whole issue is a joke as far as I'm concerned.

It looks to me like the people who are all torqued out about it are folks that think their postings are uber-important and should be "greatest".

Never mind that most people probably never look at the "greatest" page, what a bunch of baloney.

Except it does.

Does it matter, or is it anti-matter? That is the question.

... if I were running the board I'd delete every fucking thread about this, it is OVER, it has been DECIDED and the OWNER of the FUCKING BOARD has spoken.

And I agree with him.

and get rid of those pesky dissenters.

... they are not "dissenters" they are bloody wankers. don't try to make their vanity-press dreams into some sort of civil rights struggle. They are fucktards.

It would be a bloodbath, obviously.

...than all the bitching going on about the unrec.

There's a lot more room The Lounge lately.

IMHO the arrogance and belligerence of those who favor this and shit on others' opinions, in addition to needing to shit on their threads or Recs, is an ugly reflection on them and their motives.

I don't mind unrec perse... what I don't like is that it can be used anonymously to suppress exposure of information.

For some of us old timers DU has a proud history of being a place where it was possible to get things exposed which were unfashionable, unhip or unpopular - for what ever reason.

There has always been a tension between these folks on this board and the shut the fuck up fucktards who would prefer to swallow whatever they are served up.

Unfortunately unrec as currently set up gives the the shut the fuck up brigade a decisive advantage so far as the mechanics of this board are concerned.

Since these people are in many ways indistinguishable from disruptors that explains why there is dissent.

And finally... dissent is good... its healthy.

A billboard on the front page.

>>Unfortunately unrec as currently set up gives the the shut the fuck up brigade a decisive advantage so far as the mechanics of this board are concerned.<<

If enough of them wanted to tell a particular group to shut up (often the GLBT individuals or supporters who were upset/angry/hurt at yet another slight by the Obama administration), they just posted a 'rec this if you want the crybaby gays to stop whining" - and far too many of them were very close to that blatant. The billboard itself (the post, once it had a few recommendations and landed on the front page) became the organizing tool to gang up on whoever the group wanted to shut up.

All unrec does is give those being told to shut up a means of taking the billboard down from the front page - where it never belonged in the first place. It doesn't even provide a billboard as an organizing tool, since the offending "shut up" billboard just drops from sight - and posting a thread to go unrec a certain thread would violate the TOS. The only real option prior to unrec was to post a competing "shut up" thread.

So now, instead of two competing threads - each telling the other nothing more substantive than "shut up" and providing a tally of how many agreed with each "shut up" shouter we have neither. Those of us who don't think these threads are the greatest thing DU has to offer are voting both of them off the front page - and the front page actually (for the most part) has substantive discussion threads.

As opposed to an unorganized talking point?

Do you know, at any level, what the hell you are talking about?

And as you say the difference between organisation and sheep like behaviour is hard to discern at times.

The sheep are those bleating for the old system because it gave them a false sense of accomplishment.

or else someone might think it is an "organized talking point"!

:evilgrin:

The hard part of the plot wasn't so much cloning E-Lad, but training that clone how to sneak into the DU offices, take out EarlG with the tranq darts, and then reprogramming the bulletin board program so that only people who support the illuminati-created unrecommend feature could post arguments for or against its merits.

it doesnt have to be organized just because lots of people dont like losing a vote..

since when have the Democrats ever been organized..?

Organized talking point - how friggin' paranoid does a person have to be to think up these things?

:crazy:

lol

:rofl:

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by posting this.

Might be now.

DU's service is growing.

Groups affiliated with the DLC, who don't like unpopular ideas being advanced in the blogosphere? Groups tied to particular politicians who don't want to see resistance on the grassroots level?

Just the fact that certain tools can be used to favor those groups should make people very leery about why people have been disproportionately nasty when criticizing critics of unrec.

I think you overestimate your ( this boards ) importance.

If we ( this board ) had any real importance, do you think the blue dogs would be doing what they are doing?

Why is that so far fetched? Every brand in American hires people to plant positive reviews all over the internet's most popular sites. Viral marketing is the new thing. Why wouldn't that apply to politics, too? Especially given the influence of the blogosphere? This is the second or third most influential political board for Democrats.

That only works for machines. Machines do the same things over and over again. Doesn't work for *people*.

If you have to deal with *people*, and the *people* request something, you should implement it, if you want to stay relevant.

We had a plethora of those ridiculous threads by people who think their rants deserve reading. Those kind of threads always get a handful of recommends by other ranters, but most DUers think those kind of threads are silly and useless, if not both. Now such threads are gone from the Greatest Page, no longer littering the site's front door.

If you really think DU is broken now, you should stop complaining about it to other DUers who largely disagree with you and take your case directly to Skinner. Are you afraid he'll tell you that your suppositions are completely without merit?

The new system works great. It keeps the crap off the Greatest Page and it lets the air out of the posters who were able to game the previous Recommend only system to get their craptastic threads on the Greatest page. The new system has completely blown away all those useless threads by wanna be writers who think their juvenile attempts are worthy of publication. Now it takes more than a handful of co conspirators to get a thread on the Greatest Page.

When you've been told ad nauseam by the site owner that the feature is here to stay, that it is working as planned, and that he is pleased with the result - and yet you still prattle on and on about how daddy won't let you get that puppy, it's WHINING.

talking point perpetrated by a small faction of DUer's who have now found out that they're not as important as they once thought they were. You know, "whiners".

I rarely start OPs on this board, and I care about how "unrec" sullies the debate on here by favoring those who blog in groups.

All in favor of nuking others Recs and playing competitive mindgames.

:thumbsdown:

skinners words "some people abused it and have been dealt with, the rest are using it responsibly".

It has shown me how low of an opinion the people against it have of their fellow DUers, and how selfish, egotistical and fragile some of them can be.

Me, my, I, NOT we, our, us.

for this thread.

That response cries for an explanation. Or is it just name calling?

Are they ignorant because they don't acknowledge how great your posts are?

caused by their own arrogant behavior.

The only reason to bring it up is to point out they may want to consider the impression they made. FWIW. That behavior is a discredit to DU.

Without saying anything.

So again -

Is that arrogant behavior because they don't acknowledge how great your posts are?

I'm just saying that's the impression I get.

:think:

That's the impression I get.

She's been just bursting with hate for quite some time - sucks for the rest of us. :(

If there are trolls and other agents of evil out there, they want a system they can game - which was the previous system. With a handful of like minded posters, any trolling group could easily get one of their pet threads on the Greatest Page. Now they cannot. Now, they must run the gauntlet of regular DUers, who vote down the absurd threads that used to make it to the Greatest Page with regularity.

Now, the sane DU posters can control the ability of such trolling forces to skew the Greatest Page. Now, we can keep their dumb threads off the Greatest Page, and we can label such threads with the disapproval we feel for them.

Your complaint is simply not valid and not based upon fact. It's not good threads being kept off the Greatest page, but bad ones, weak ones, absurd ones.

It's time for some DUers to finally grow up and face the reality that not everyone who thinks their threads suck is a troll, a freeper, or a DLC agent.

Sid

Greatest page.

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People over at "progressiveindependent" who are upset that they can't dominate the conversation at DU anymore.

:rofl: