Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Every year over 140,000 men are raped in the United States.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:38 PM
Original message
Every year over 140,000 men are raped in the United States.
http://restraint.org/politics/2113/lets-go-to-prison/

"Every year, over 90,000 women are raped in the United States.

If you’re an activist (or spend much time around activists), you might know this already. You might even talk about it, argue about why it happens, the effect it has on people, how to stop it.

What is less well-known is that every year, over 140,000 men are raped in the United States.

No one talks about it because it happens inside of prisons. No one cares about it because it happens to prisoners. On the inside, guards use rape (both implied and actual) as a form of prisoner control. On the outside, people joke about it. Worse even, they see it as a form of punishment prisoners should endure, even though rape inside of a prison is an order of magnitude more likely to transmit a disease than rape outside of one."


The management of the companies that own the prisons should be held criminally liable, IMHO.

Then the companies should be dissolved and then we close the door on for-profit prisons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's too upsetting and people feel powerless to it. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
131. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
150. Need 2 separate prisons: One for rapists and one for non-rapists
Rapists should be placed with each other.
Guards who rape should also be behind bars with other rapists.
This is my opinion and it would be a simple solution to the problem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes, and even here, people laugh about it, as if that's OK.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. even a joke on teevee & in movies
our culture is sick...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. It's part of the lack of ethical treatment of prisoners in this country.
Their loss of freedom is their punishment. This attitude that they should be miserable and lacking basic rights is appalling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. Hell, there are DUers that think date rape is OK, so I'm not surprised in the least
Too many people have sick, sick, twisted minds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. How can we rehabilitate people?
When everyone is either raping, getting raped, or afraid of being raped.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The entire prison system needs to be reformed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Double n/t
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 01:51 PM by Taitertots
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Rape is a violent act.
So, for starters I wouldn't keep non-violent offenders with violent offenders. More supervision and interaction with non-convicts could help, too.

Honestly, the for-profit prison system is just so messed up. Little to no rehabilitation is offered. The more common outcome of time served is recidivism and a career in crime. I don't have all the answers for an overhaul, but know one is needed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. The hardest part would be to keep it tolerable to the inmates
First remove yard time.
Second make the cells open to natural light and large enough to allow more lock down time.
Third prison television: No commercials, special programs, no violent programs, and psychologist designed programs
Fourth Only allow inmates interaction time in controlled units with more over sight
Fifth Death penalty for in prison offenses
Sixth: In room showers

People in jail should be able to feel safe while they are there. Remove yard time and shower time, replace them the small group activities and larger cells with showers. Replace the violent mentally destructive imagery of broadcast television with informative soothing shows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #24
121. ^You make sense, Taitertots^ n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. How do we keep people separated so they can't rape each other?
But close enough so they can learn how to interact with people?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. The prison system stopped being about rehabilitation back in the 80s.
Another gift from the republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. Specious at best..
...prison has NEVER been about rehabilitation.

It is to punish and separate people.

Now...if you want to talk about the Mental Health system and how the Repubs in the 80s fucked everything up, then we would have plenty of common ground. But it is not like prison was a beacon of hope in the 60s and 70s.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. It's never been a beacon of hope, but prior to the 80s most states did
have strong rehab programs - education, vocational training, etc. The double-whammy of cutting funding and increasing the prison population (in a large part by using prisons to take the place of the mental hospitals Reagan closed) turned them from rehabilitation to warehousing. Add to that the leap in incarcerations due to the 'war on drugs' and letting prison gangs take over the population, all under the watchful eyes of the for-profit prison industry, and you got today's problems.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #40
95. Can't it be all of those
We should be punishing them and keeping them separate while we rehabilitate them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RockaFowler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rape in any case is wrong
And the guards are wrong for looking the other way as much as they do in prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
49. I'll bet some guards are guilty of rape, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. If it's something suffered by men
it can't possibly be as awful as what's suffered by women.

Whenever you mention something suffered by men, the dismissive or hostile responses usually boil down to the above.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Sad, but true.
Almost everyone cares about female prisoners being raped, while almost no one cares about male prisoners being raped.

Complaints of sexual assault against men fall on deaf ears inside and outside of prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. not among those of us who work with the victims. assault is assualt. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. Yes, let's leave the rape threads to the men who enjoy them so much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. Sad, but true for too many. It's part of the tyranny of sexism ...
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 03:41 PM by TahitiNut
... that the "poor, helpless woman" is deemed far more deserving of help. After all, as "lesser beings" they need more help, right?? I find it far too pervasive ... and the heritage of sexism, like the occasional reference to "female intuition." Most bizarre, we often find this attitude among self-proclaimed "feminsts" -- and they're clueless about how they're perpetuating that which they say they're fighting. (Woe is he who points this out, though. He must then be a misogynist.)

:eyes:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. Well said. Thanks. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #38
130. You are correct. (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
45. Rape is rape, no matter who the sex of the victim.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
118. i think you will find on any thread about male rape women strongly denouncing
on any thread where you here the chuckles here on du about a prisoner being raped, you will see women jumping on that calling out the bullshit. and i dont think you will often see women casually joking about a man getting raped in prison.

sorry guys, dont agree with you on this.

and seeing how my brother was in prison for non violent crimes and he came out totally fucked up, i think he was raped, and can never talk about it, but terribly effected from it, .... no, this woman doesn't see it as less significant to a woman being raped at all

also, all the male children being raped, i think women has always been appalled and stood for those males, as emphatically as any rape to any female.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
125. Not quite.
What annoys me, as a feminist, is when men pretend that something they suffer at the hands of other men is women's fault.

Women get raped, nearly all of the time by men.

Men get raped, nearly all of the time by men.

We say that we live in a rape culture and it's the fault of male dominance. Men respond by saying "but men get raped too!", as if those men were being raped by women.

Seriously, we'd be more sympathetic to your experiences if you'd stop using them as an excuse to dismiss ours.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #125
180. It's rape culture
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 12:06 PM by ismnotwasm
Men are the ones that rape. Men can stop it by taking responsibility. There are those who'll point out the small statistics of women who've committed sexual crimes. Fine. Whatever. Not the point.

I started to respond to this thread last night, actually did some research. Then I changed my mind. This morning i changed my mind again. Sigh.

Anyway what I found besides a smaller number of prison rapes is sentences like this;

"According to these official records, slightly more than 8,000 male, female, and juvenile inmates—or 0.005 percent of the total incarcerated population—reported that they had been victims of sexual violence while incarcerated. An even smaller percentage of inmates' claims were substantiated"

"Thus, although the Prison Rape Elimination Act (PREA) 2003 states that 13 percent of all inmates have been raped in American prisons and jails, the most recent research estimates less prevalence of rape, whether inmate-on-inmate or staff-on-inmate sexual misconduct"

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/corrections/prison-rape/welcome.htm

It sounded familiar to me. Claims of rape-- 'unsubstantiated'

Figures.

One of my favorite sites on the topic of rape in general

http://www.mencanstoprape.org/

And an excellent research site for those who actually give a shit about sexual violence in prisons.

http://www.nicic.org/prea
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #125
202. "we'd be more sympathetic to your experiences if you'd stop using them as an excuse to dismiss ours"
That's fair to say, which was striking in the OP b/c the data was so skewed and served only to "put it in perspective" -- a false one. A dismissive one.

The absurdity of the OP early on (before male prison rape hit the Top Of Greatest in about 10 minutes -- my post poking fun at that was deleted) comes right when we have so many subgroups marginalized here -- even when topics in the Big Forums concern those groups.

So, you go, men!! We care. We really really do!! Maybe now that the blacks and women and gays and spiritual/healers have retreated to hidey holes, men have the pool to themselves and can discuss a painful topic like prison rape, unmolested by the concerns of others who also struggle under white male dominant authoritarian rule.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
201. The way this was set up is the problem here. All the feminist voices acknowledged the issues
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 02:55 PM by omega minimo
that affect prison inmates

AND objected to false presentation, false comparison, false premises, that diminish the realities of rape of women.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
duhneece Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm unsure of the numbers, but appreciate your post
This is so wrong; private prisons are so wrong; any acceptance of cruely and humiliation is wrong.
Thank you again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. The 90,000 number of women raped is probably too low.
Far too many go unreported. I am not diminishing the problem of male prison rape by any means, but I don't think that statistic on women is accurate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scrinmaster Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. You think men are more likely to report a rape?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I didn't say that.
I just think that number is way too low.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Even with your disclaimer, someone finds a way to make trouble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
85. Both numbers are probably considerably low (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
174. any chance anyone here has read the SOURCES?

Here's a link to the methodology used to achieve the 140,000 figure:

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2001/prison/report.html#_1_4

Methodology

The report is primarily based on information collected from over 200 prisoners spread among thirty-seven states. The majority of these inmates have been raped or otherwise sexually abused while in prison, and were therefore able to give firsthand accounts of the problem. Numerous inmates who were not subject to sexual abuse also provided their views on the topic, including information about sexual assaults that they had witnessed. A very small number of inmates who had themselves participated in rape also contributed their perspectives. Much of the information was received via written correspondence, although Human Rights Watch representatives spoke by telephone with a number of prisoners, and personally interviewed twenty-six of them. Prisoner testimonies were supplemented by documentary materials such as written grievances, court papers, letters, and medical records.

Prisoners were contacted using several different methods. Human Rights Watch posted announcements in a number of publications and leaflets that reach prisoners--including Prison Legal News, Prison Life Magazine (which has since ceased publication), and Florida Prison Legal Perspectives--informing them that we were conducting research on the topic of prisoner-on-prisoner sexual abuse and that we welcomed their information. Several organizations that work with prisoners, including Stop Prisoner Rape, put us in contact with additional inmates.

The prisoners who collaborated in our efforts were thus a largely self-selected group, not a random sampling. Previous researchers have conducted quantitative studies using statistically valid techniques in certain U.S. prisons -- most recently, in 1998 in seven midwestern state prison systems -- but, given that there are some two million prisoners in the United States, this would be difficult to achieve on a national scale. The research on which the present report was based was thus qualitative in nature: it sought to identify systemic weaknesses rather than to quantify actual cases of abuse. The result, we believe, sketches the outlines of a national problem, bridging the gap between academic research on the topic and the more anecdotal writings that occasionally appear in the popular press.

The prisoners with whom Human Rights Watch was in contact, we should emphasize, did not simply serve as a source of case material. Rather, their comments and insights--based on firsthand knowledge and close observation--inform every page of the report.


Here's a link to the source of the 90,000 figure:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/violent_crime/forcible_rape.html
Data collection

* The UCR Program counts one offense for each female victim of a forcible rape, attempted forcible rape, or assault with intent to rape, regardless of the victim’s age. A rape by force involving a female victim and a familial offender is counted as a forcible rape not an act of incest.

The FBI didn't interview a random sample of women, let alone a self-selected sample of women. It used POLICE STATISTICS.

The figures achieved using both methods may be equally RELIABLE, but they count DIFFERENT THINGS.

VERY different things.


"You think men are more likely to report a rape?"

The question would actually be whether men are more likely to report a rape to a Human Rights Watch investigator than women are to the police.

I think we might be able to guess the answer.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. I expect male prison rape is equally, if not more, underreported.
Sadly, women are 'traditional' victims - and there is more public support for them as victims. Men, however, are not victims in the popular mind, so if a guy is raped he has NO support for reporting and dealing with it. A 'real' man just copes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
99. Reporting a rape in prison can get you killed
Reporting a rape could be considered "snitching" by some, and that can easily get someone killed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
create.peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #99
189. reporting a spousal rape can do the same, nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #27
112. "Sadly, women are 'traditional' victims - and there is more public support for them as victims."
:grr: :nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #27
153. It seems by reading much here, that when a man is raped in prison, he deserves it.
I really don't know how else to interpret many of the other posts here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. one other stat that makes the numbers so alarming-
there are A LOT more women in the outside world than there are men in prison- so in the context of the population that it happens in- it's even that much worse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
64. 90,000 rapes a year would be about one woman in five being raped at some point.
I've heard estimates between one in three and one in eight, so it could be either too high or too low.

As I'm sure you know, though, it's impossible to get any even remotely accurate statistics on number of committed rapes, though, for the obvious reasons - the of committed rapes aren't reported, and the vast majority of reports of rape don't - rightly or wrongly - lead to a conviction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
160. The 90K is reported forcible rape of women, the 140K is an estimate of incidence in prisons.
That's like comparing apples and oranges. The 90K comes from an FBI tabulation of incidents reported to police. A more comparable estimate would come from something like the NVAW survey which asks about assaults regardless of complaints to law enforcement.

The 140K estimate is an extrapolation of the lower of two incidence rates found in earlier small scale studies using interviews rather than reports to officials.

It's a shame that they used that comparative. The 140K estimate of prisoner rape its own is enough to demand attention to the problem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. Apparently, we are okay with the idea...
...of these torture victims' eventually being released, untreated, into our neighborhoods--as long as we can avoid them right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. It coincides with our general contempt for prisoner rights...
It is truly sad that an institution that is supposed to absolutely 'control' every aspect of a prisoners day allows this to happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Prisons could be so much more than badly marking time.
Some actually do some good, but not most.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. Prisons should not be a place where offenders are used by guards or other prisoners.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RockaFowler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I agree , , , nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. But it helps
the prison industry. Brutalizing people in prison increased recidivism, thus maintaining inventory. Making them a bunch of even more brutal animals when they come out than when they went in is good for business.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Good point...
that probably does have something to do with why this is allowed to go on unchecked.

:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
86. And VERY good for the prison guard's "unions"
(I put union in quotes since these sorry excuses for "workers" don't deserve to be spoken of in the same breath as Auto Workers, Farm Workers or Janitors in Union.)

And those prison guard "unions" are the main reason there's more money spent in California for prisons than higher education...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
canetoad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
29. You are saying
that each year 50,000 more men than women are raped?

Did you read the methodology of the report that arrived at these figures?


Methodology

The report is primarily based on information collected from over 200 prisoners spread among thirty-seven states. The majority of these inmates have been raped or otherwise sexually abused while in prison, and were therefore able to give firsthand accounts of the problem. Numerous inmates who were not subject to sexual abuse also provided their views on the topic, including information about sexual assaults that they had witnessed. A very small number of inmates who had themselves participated in rape also contributed their perspectives. Much of the information was received via written correspondence, although Human Rights Watch representatives spoke by telephone with a number of prisoners, and personally interviewed twenty-six of them. Prisoner testimonies were supplemented by documentary materials such as written grievances, court papers, letters, and medical records.

Prisoners were contacted using several different methods. Human Rights Watch posted announcements in a number of publications and leaflets that reach prisoners--including Prison Legal News, Prison Life Magazine (which has since ceased publication), and Florida Prison Legal Perspectives--informing them that we were conducting research on the topic of prisoner-on-prisoner sexual abuse and that we welcomed their information. Several organizations that work with prisoners, including Stop Prisoner Rape, put us in contact with additional inmates.

The prisoners who collaborated in our efforts were thus a largely self-selected group, not a random sampling. Previous researchers have conducted quantitative studies using statistically valid techniques in certain U.S. prisons -- most recently, in 1998 in seven midwestern state prison systems -- but, given that there are some two million prisoners in the United States, this would be difficult to achieve on a national scale. The research on which the present report was based was thus qualitative in nature: it sought to identify systemic weaknesses rather than to quantify actual cases of abuse. The result, we believe, sketches the outlines of a national problem, bridging the gap between academic research on the topic and the more anecdotal writings that occasionally appear in the popular press.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. self-selected
All reports of rape (where reporting is optional) provide a self-selected sample. You report, you've self-selected as part of the sample of people reporting.

What's the beef? :shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Krakowiak Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #33
81. The difference being that.....
Self-selection from a small group isn't reliable for estimating numbers on a wider scale. 200 people CHOSE to respond to this survey, and it seems that the # of estimated rapes of prisoners was gathered from the % of THAT group that reported being raped. The inmates with a greater interest in this issue are far more likely to respond to the survey, thus greatly skewing the numbers (and the reports authors say that pretty clearly in the statement quoted by canetoad). Examples of polls on DU that follow this same data skew pattern abound. For instance, I myself suffer from a severe case of clinical depression. Whenever I see a poll posted on DU asking whether or not someone has experienced clinical depression, I click on that thread and vote in the poll. Many others like me do this too, where for a topic that I don't have an experience in, I am far less likely to respond to the poll.

That said, whatever the numbers, I believe the point of this report is to bring attention to prison rape. It doesn't matter how many inmates are raped, it is wrong, there is no excuse for it, no one deserves to be raped, and it is a worthy cause to have brought up. I am sickened by the responses of one particular Duer, whose contributions to DU I have appreciated up to this point, in being so callous towards the crime of rape. This poster seems to have serious issues towards men and it breaks my heart to read such posts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
30. telling, that right up front it's said to be a form of control...
it's so clear when referring to prison rape. this notion is somehow obscured when referring to rape where women are the victims. but, that's it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Then it would have to be recognized as a Hate Crime based on gender.
:think: so "this notion is somehow obscured when referring to rape where women are the victims."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #36
232. yep -- it's one of those reality-puncturing things. i read that and my head spun, it's so clear...
when it's men who are being raped. we're so brainwashed that we can't see this when it's women. it's mind blowing, really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
32. I also think young male victim outside of prison underreport as well. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Exactly. Look at how many HS sport hazings involve molestation/rape
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #39
114. Has that changed in recent years with more awareness of the crime...
or has this always gone on? I can't imagine previous generations putting sticks up each others' asses.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #39
152. well no - I wasn't thinking that. I think it's boys being molested by someone they know. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
42. holy crap... I had no idea it was THAT many!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
43. Just for the record, I don't think the 140,000 number is an annual rate.
From the linked-to HRW report:

"A 1996 study of the Nebraska prison system produced similar findings, with 22 percent of male inmates reporting that they had been pressured or forced to have sexual contact against their will while incarcerated. Of these, over 50 percent had submitted to forced anal sex at least once. Extrapolating these findings to the national level gives a total of at least 140,000 inmates who have been raped."

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2001/prison/report1.html#_1_5

But there's no doubting that it's a horrific problem that gets far too little serious policy attention. In general our society fails to ensure justice for criminal offenders: it's unfortunately often a losing political proposition, and the courts can only compensate for the failures of majority rule very imperfectly, and mostly in the area of defendants' rights, which is only a very narrow part of the problem. Perhaps it would be possible to get some "cruel and unusual" rulings here when the abuses are clearly the result of negligence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
44. 90,000 women are REPORTED raped a year.
The real number is almost certainly much, much higher.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
48. Can't It Just Be "140,000 Men ..." MUST You and Others Diminish The Crime of Rape Against Women?
In order to bring attention to the plight of prison rape?

I'm more than aware - and appalled by it, but if you're going to start the conversation by downplaying crimes against women, have fun with yourself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. There it is. Thank you for stating it so clearly.
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. I don't think the OP is trying to diminish the significance of raped women...
The comparison is simply used to show the severity of sexual abuse in prison.

Like if you think A is bad, look at B...

It's not diminishing A, it's simply using an already horrific example to show the disturbing nature of something else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. That's why you missed the point.
And does anyone think those numbers are accurate?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Regardless of accuracy, what was the point of the OP?
What did I miss?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Oh I meant this point
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6131770&mesg_id=6133487



The OP seemed to be trying to be about the harm done by the prison industrial complex.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. I'm Sure The OP Wasn't Consciously Trying To .. But It Did
As you can see from responses like this one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6131770#6131846

By downplaying the severity of the crime against women, who are reputed to be the less rational, more emotional sex, prison-reform advocates lose a good ally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. I might have missed it...
But I'm failing to see where the OP downplays rape against women. I don't get it.

Comparing the two is not downplaying one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. I'm Not Sure We Could Explain It Any Better
Than we've already tried.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Well than maybe you are talking about something that doesn't exist?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #67
100. I'm still waiting to see how the OP diminishes rape against women
So far, all you've said is "MUST You and Others Diminish The Crime of Rape Against Women? In order to bring attention to the plight of prison rape?"

You accused the OP of diminishing rape against women, but you failed to state HOW the OP does so. This is the equivalent of saying "because I said so, that's all".

As others and myself have pointed out, the OP presents the statistic about rape against women to put the subject of male prison rape into perspective. Yet for some strange reason, certain people in this thread have taken it upon themselves to call the OP into question, to cast doubt on the # of male prison rapes, etc. Why is that? Could we not sit here and accuse YOU of diminishing rape against men in prison?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #100
104. Are the statistics accurate? The OP quite bluntly set it up as a comparison of numbers. That was it.
Quite an impression it created. Are those numbers even true?

"As others and myself have pointed out, the OP presents the statistic about rape against women to put the subject of male prison rape into perspective."

You just answered your own question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #61
69. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
87. Because most would just say "who cares? They're convicts." (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. Okay, Well, Good Luck With That
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #48
91. I agree. I thought the same thing when I read the OP. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #48
111. Nice line in fallacies you've got there
The OP does no such thing. It just says 'Everyone knows (statistic A) is bad. But few are aware of the equally bad and even more widespread (statistic B)'. Comparison is not the same as downplaying, and your assertion that th two are equivalent is fundamentally dishonest. Nowhere does the OP suggest that less attention or gravity be accorded to the rape of women.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #48
182. How does that diminish it? We are, and have been for decades, outraged
by the number of assaults against women - it is a known quantity that everyone is aware of, and rightfully so. How does it diminish that to show, by comparison with that known, there is ALSO an UNSPOKEN and UNKNOWN epidemic of rape against men?

The reason for stating the comparative numbers is not to diminish one or the other but to show the magnitude of the problem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #182
203. With incorrect numbers. With nothing else. "To show the (false) magnitude of the problem"
:thumbsdown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
183. Thank you. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
53. I agree, it is shameful
Not just the rapes which are something we should all be ashamed about that we have allowed it to go on, but that we allow companies to make a profit on prisons in the first place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
55. Do you have a break down
of the number raped in those prisons managed by contractors vs. those managed by state or federal officials?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
58. Shit happens. Prison is supposed to be an unpleasant place where criminals are punished
If you put a lot of bad people together in a small place, they are bound to do bad things to each other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. You vacate justice when prisons become free-for-alls for abuse.
Because by necessity you abandon proportionality.

People should be punished according to the law, not according to the brutality of other criminals. That's the whole point of civil order.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #60
136. It is hard to have civil order when you concentrate a large number of criminals into a small area
Just ask anyone who has ever lived in a bad neighborhood.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #136
149. And our failure to deal effectively with violent crime in bad neighborhoods
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 08:07 AM by Unvanguard
is a serious failure of social justice, a part of our general failure to effectively provide important public services (like education) to the poor.

More relevantly to this particular question, the dynamic is entirely different when you are dealing with an environment like a prison where there is total and intrusive authority. The very least that can be done for people whose lives are totally controlled by others is to use that power to ensure that they are not abused by others so controlled. The fact that this aim has not been achieved bespeaks a basic negligence of inmate welfare on the part of prison authorities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #149
161. No one ever has total authority
The only solution is to give every prisoner their own cell and not allow them any contact with other inmates. I don't think that the public is willing to pay for that in order to prevent the possibility of prison rapes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. Dear God, think about what you just said.
Not everyone in prison is a bad person. Sometimes good people make bad mistakes. They are sentences to do time, not to be raped.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #65
123. Yep, a perfect example of how effective the authoritarian philosophies have become
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 02:32 AM by Go2Peace
even our "liberal/progressive" wing has swallowed the authoritarian cultural messaging of the last 20 years. Black and White, Axis of Evil, Good and Bad. The "definitions" keep getting more an more rigid.Keep on moving until we all become one faith and thought. No room for error, fall our of line and you are of no good to the state.

Not arguing there aren't really messed up and yes, even wicked people in jail, but when did we get so black and white in our views of us vs them?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #65
137. Oh course they are not sentenced to be raped. But like I said, shit happens
To believe that you can prevent it from happening in prison is naive at best.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. That's a face/palm statement right there.
oh vey.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #71
138. If you beleive that it is so outrageous, why aren't we electing legislators who
promise to fix the problem?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #138
209. Because the majority of people think just like you...
or they don't give a shit at all.

Thanks for being a part of the problem.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #58
77. Incredibly stupid.
You should hope you never find yourself in prison for a stupid or trumped up charge. However, it might help you understand the ridiculously stupid and evil nature of your comment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #77
139. Smart people have a tendency to keep themselves out of trouble
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #139
155. So I'm guessing you think that stupid people deserve to be raped?
Once again, a stupid defense for an incredibly stupid comment. Kind of ironic, ain't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #155
162. I'm smart enough to not get myself arrested
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #162
164. But apparently not smart enough to answer a very simple question.
I think you overestimate your abilities quite a bit. There are plenty of very smart people in prison. And even if everyone in prison had a sub 80 IQ, it wouldn't make prison rape any less abhorrent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #58
78. So it's okay to feed little monsters (and the occasional innocent)
to bigger monsters so the bigger monsters will be that much bigger and more monstrous when they get out? Makes perfect sense to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #78
140. What is the solution? Seperate the weaker inmates from the stronger ones?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #140
238. For one, separate the violent inmates from the nonviolent ones
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #58
88. And then they come after your ass...
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 09:43 PM by ProudDad
mad as hell and twice as brutalized.

How do you like that idea? How do you like a system that makes the crime problem worse and folks convicted of crimes more damaged and vicious than when they went in (IF they were vicious when they went in, most weren't)?

It's attitudes like yours that keeps it going...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #88
141. If it were that unpleasant of an experience, they would keep out of trouble to aviod going back
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #58
93. you assume that ONLY criminals go to prison
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #93
142. What is the solution? Closing down all prisons so as not to risk incarcerating an innocent?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #142
196. How about affording all prisoners a basic amount of dignity to begin with?
Going from the perspective that no one deserves to be raped would do a hell of a lot towards increasing the level of human rights in this country. Rape is not a punishment, it's an incredibly heinous crime and an affront to human dignity. I've got a feeling you're not anywhere near as smart as you think you are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
97. What the fuck is the matter with you?
Jesus, this fucking place is shit lately.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #97
143. Nothing is the matter with me. What is the matter with you?
Are you shocked to learn that most Americans are not overly sympathetic to the plight of incarcerated criminals?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #143
158. Not being overly sympathetic is one thing; accepting RAPE is another
I don't know about most Americans, but most Europaeans would NOT think prison rape an acceptable punishment! Even people here who support the death penalty would normally not support rape as a punishment, which is what you are doing.

And perhaps it is not a coincidence that, while prison rape can happen anywhere, it is NOT as common in Europaean countries as it seems to be in America.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #158
163. How less common is prison rape in Europe compared with the US?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #158
226. You can't reason when someone has lost their sense of empathy in favor of authoritarianism.
The only way I have seen such people come around and really *think* through their innapropriate feelings is when something terrible happens to them and breaks their image that they are indestructable and "it could never happen to them"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #143
211. Oh, something is definitely the matter with you.
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 06:14 PM by Forkboy
Don't kid yourself.

And most Americans had no problem with the Iraq war either. Nice group you're in.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #97
148. The person you are posting to declared Gov Siegelman guilty
because a jury convicted him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #148
172. He also has a slap-in-the-face painting of a blue dog in his sig line.
Says it all, really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #58
102. Justice is NOT supposed to be an unpleasant place. Its house should
sanction reform, rehabilitation, reconsideration, and recurrent examination of how someone who may have made a mistake might find a way back through the wilderness.

I wish you had not posted what you did. It made me feel like slapping you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #102
132. Many DUers believe that certain types of offenders should be burned at the stake...
They don't actually give a shit about rehabilitation. They want blood. It's really fucking disturbing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #102
144. Slapping some one is assault. Committing such a crime could land you in jail
No wonder you are so sympathetic toward incarcerated criminals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #144
178. Well, fortunately FEELING like slapping someone is not a crime.
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 11:42 AM by LeftishBrit
Yet.

Talk about Big Brother!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #144
221. The precedent for mercy is more persuasive than your
cheap-shot dismissals of an incarcerated population.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #58
117. Others already addressed your comment
but I would like to be considered part of the pile on here, for the record.

You seem to be advocating acceptance and apathy as a "solution" to prison rape, which is beyond messed up. That's right up there with looking at the prison abuses in Iraq and responding with "eh, that's how it goes."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #117
145. Criminals will act the way they do whether they are on the streets or locked up
Why would you expect otherwise?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #58
126. So that means that we should just accept it?
Prison is mainly expected to be a place where prisoners are deprived of their freedom. This should mean that they are in particular deprived of the freedom to torture other people.

The idea of prison as a free-for-all to do bad things to others is really the opposite of what prisons are supposed to be.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #126
146. Prison is also supposed to be a placw where people are punished
Some punishments are sanction, others are simply natural consequences.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #146
151. So rape is an acceptable punishment?
Do you also think that torture is OK under some circumstances?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #151
169. It is not a punishment. It is a natural consequence
Like when someone robs a bank and and the dye pack explodes in his face.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
create.peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #169
208. you, and your faithful companion there, are 'ailing' puppies.....
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 04:58 PM by create.peace
i guess you must stay in the free speech zones at the protests you go to. you think the peace demonstrators arrested in front of the whitehouse get what they deserve? woh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #169
230. You couldn't sound more like Rush if you tried.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #146
254. What if they were killing each other? Would that be OK too? Shit happens, right?
Oh, and welcome to my ignore bin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #58
133. Make sure to remember that when you serve 90 days for a bag o weed
or a drunk driving charge because it happens in the county jail too


God, I got nearly 3rd degree burns from that statement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #133
212. Rape or not, Freddie would last two seconds in jail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #212
217. Truest post in the thread. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #58
184. That is a sick, inhumane, and ignorant thing to say. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
206. On second thought, I'll simply relieve myself of ever having to
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 04:36 PM by RaleighNCDUer
read any of you moronic posts again.

And as a side benifit, not have to see that FUCKING dog.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
63. Another American dirty little secret.
I find this statistic heartbreaking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swede Atlanta Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
66. Well....let's see
An incarcerated person is prohibited from engaging in any sexual activity. Hmm.....all men (and women) masturbate...but according to most if not all penal regulations ANY sexual activity, solitary or with others isn't allowed. WTF? Sexual release is as much a part of a person as eating, drinking, defecating and urinating. Now I'm not saying we allow magazines, videos, etc. but gimme a break.

We all know that rape is not really about sex. It is all about dominance and power. So this fits the penal system where there is a pecking order or those who run the prisons and those who obey. What we can do about that is very controversial.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
68. well if they didn't want to be raped in prison, they shouldn't have committed a crime
What goes around comes around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. That's a great "law and order" attitude
...should they just "lie back and try to enjoy it" too?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #68
76. Maybe it would help if you
considered if you would feel the same if it were you or someone you love like a child or your brother. Lets say your son dropped his cell phone while driving, reached down to pick it up and a child ran in front of his car killing the child.Atragic accident which results in your so being charged with manslaughter. Or lets say your 18 year old son makes a stupid mistake and sells a bag of weed to the wrong guy. Dumb? Yes. Should he be raped in prison because of it? If the answer is yes, you sir are a fucking monster who deserves the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #76
127. Don't know if you can help such people. They have swallowed the authoritarian kool aid
We are becoming such a simple minded and black and white people. I guess everyone in jail is expendible regardless of the crime. Make a move against any law there is no second chance, you fucked up for life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #68
79. Disgusting.
You lack any sense of compassion. Pathetic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #68
80. Depends on your definition of "crime."
For some, their only "crime" is by being the wrong type of person at the wrong place at the wrong time.

But thanks for playing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. Huh?
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 08:59 PM by chrisa
So, if somebody gets a DUI, or steals a candy bar, they deserve to get raped?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Krakowiak Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #68
83. Next time you get a speeding ticket.....
I hope your officer is gentle with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #68
89. And if you don't want to be accused of saying stupid shit
don't post stupid shit like this inhumane post, provis...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #68
94. You assume that everyone in prison has actually committed a crime
it's nice in suburbia, ain't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #68
101. Are you sure you're on the right board?
Every now and then, you see shit on DU that one would usually expect to find in freeperville. Your post is one of them.

So you really think that a kid who gets tossed in prison for a drug charge or stealing a car deserves to get RAPED?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
103. So it would be just fine and dandy with you if anyone at all,
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 11:59 PM by saltpoint
could drive to a correctional institute, bully and beat one of the inmates, and rape him or her, and that justification for said violence is found in the inmate's adjudicated guilt?

Jesus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #68
115. And if he's given AIDS, then
well - he should have known you can't sell dope. Serves him right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #115
168. Or have smoked dope or had it on themselves for that matter.
Considering that almost 89% of people in jail for marijuana related offenses are in because of simple possession. It's so incredibly sick that people even on this board would provide such pathetic excuses for such an abhorrent practice that would never be tolerated in a civil society.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #68
128. Wow.
Then do you think Abu Ghraib was all right? Do you think judges should be able to sentence people to be raped - that is the logical conclusion?

And many people in prison are there for non-violent crimes; and, as others have said, rapists who end up in prison are more likely to rape other prisoners than the other way around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #68
147. yea until your son goes up for a small bag of coke,different then hu?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #68
185. Unbelievable. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #68
200. If she didn't want to be raped, she shouldn't have been wearing that dress!
I'd like to think that there are no DUers as reprehensible and disgusting as you, but it turns out you're not the only one on this thread who advocates things even the most hardened repuke would be sickened by. Karma's a bitch and I wouldn't flinch for a second if karma gave you a huge punch in the face.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #68
256. I'm practically doubling my ignore bin just with this thread... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
73. In nearly every maximum security prison
in the US both state and federal there are agents of the government whose entire job is to keep convicts in the system as long as possible. These agents use set ups, prisoners against prisoners, and gang affiliations to accomplish this. Most prison gangs have their roots in the protection of the members. A good example is the Aryan Brotherhood. The AB was first started in San Quentin in the 1960s as a protection from assault for the members. Now if you are assaulted or fear assault about the only way to protect yourself is with a gang affiliation. If you join a gang in the interest of self preservation, these government agents label you a 'disruptive group member' which can adversely effect your chance for parole or early release and makes you a target for investigation which may lead to charges to add time to your sentence. It is a vicious circle and a nightmare for anyone who is put in there who simply wants to serve their time and be released...almost impossible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
75. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
84. Seems that these facts are contrary....
to the old police Program Scared Straight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Papa Boule Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
92. Jury nullification would fix the problem.
If jurors started refusing to convict anyone until the problem is fixed, the problem would be fixed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #92
107. Prisons are Big Business now. Would that movement stand up to that power?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
96. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
98. I think your point is weakened by comparing stats of rape against women or men.
I agree with your more salient point that neglect of the brutal rape that goes on within the prison system is monstrous and says a lot of about our society, as using capital punishment against prisoners, or the idiotic "three strikes, you're out" law of the land now upheld by the Supreme Court. Something needs to be done about the horrific status of allowing rape within the prison system.

I do think that your comparison of rape against women to men was a poor way to make your point. I am certain that you mean well, but the truth is that in the no-prison population of nearly 300,000,000 Americans, of which half are women and girls, the unreported instances of rape against them would make the number you cited seem very small and unrepresentative.

Having known young women who have been raped, there is little worse than that.

Rape is an act of violence and whether it is against a woman or a man or a child, it is criminal behavior and can not be tolerated. Ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #98
167. I just re-posted from another blog... I agree with your point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #167
207. if you're concerned about the issue

Have you read the HRW study that the blogger cites?

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2001/prison/report.html

It's linked right there in his third sentence.

It's worth reading. And it would have made a worthy subject for a thread.

An unknown blogger's misguided take on the issue really isn't so much.

Sticking to the issue would have avoided a lot of grief.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
105. One of my patients was a young man who was raped
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 12:21 AM by nadinbrzezinski
another was a boy...

Both were hard to deal with not because of the trauma. Here was the first hurdle

Our lovely cops... you see American cops, or Mexican cops, twenty years ago it just simply could not happen. Men do not rape men, period. So that was my first hurdle, to get the cops to actually take a report and an evidence kit.

The second, not that this changed with the weaker sex, was the doctors.

The level of stigma associated with this was incredible. I kept an eye on this young man as he moved though the ER... and kept in-contact. I was the only one who did the crisis intervention and first believed him, and second kept an ear open. I know to this day that this young man, no longer young, speaks about this with nobody. He was victimized by the system. And quite honestly I cannot blame him.

The boy was raped by an uncle. Now in that case the system worked on overdrive... and uncle went to jail. But getting an eight year old to talk to you, as a medical provider, to talk about this was hard. So this is the reality... and rape is not an issue people want to talk about.

Suffice it to say, if I have anybody, male or female, tell me I was raped. I take them at their word.

Oh and things have changed a lot since those days. I must say, for the better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. Thank you for being a responsible, compassionate soul, NB
:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #106
108. I just did my job and frankly COLLEGE prepared me for that
I took a few electives that dealt with that. I trained my kids to do that.. crisis intervention, but I do not know how many of them continued that work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. I know you were being professional and I thought of that. You got me.
And I also know you are compassionate and responsible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
110. This thread is, by some responses...telling.
Yeah. Thanks to some posters for sharing.

Yikes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
113. I have worked with sexually abused boys (ages 6 to 12) in a group home.
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 12:28 AM by Jennicut
They had been taken away from their caregivers because of neglect and abuse. It was sooo hard to get them to open up and talk about their experiences because there is a huge stigma to being a boy and being mistreated sexually. I think both rapes of males and females are equally bad/horrifying but with the boys it was like pulling teeth to get them to talk and hard to get others to listen/believe them...some people are just afraid to deal with the topic.
I have never seen a more heartbreaking face then that of a 10 year old after I went to the psychiatrist that worked at the group home because this boy was coming on to me, trying to touch me...his 24 year old counselor. He did not get that it was wrong, it was normal for him to have sex with adult women because his mother had abused, raped him. I quit shortly after that, the job just got to me too much. That was nearly 9 years ago. I often wonder what happened to that boy and the other ones I had contact with.
I imagine that as adults and as prisoners, men have a hard time opening up and reporting on this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #113
116. Hugs, I dealt with an 8 year old as a medic
I know what you are talking about... and for me it was the actual crisis of rape just happened.

I also wonder... I posted above my experience as a medic with two male rapes, and I think things are finally getting better... insofar as doing the crisis intervention and all that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #116
119. Yeah, it was terrible. The abuse happened years ago to some of them.
Of couse, this was in 1999/2000 so these boys are almost all grown up now. I still think about them.
Their abuse was from other boys, fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles, friends of the family. It was a group home specifically dealing with boys that had been abused sexually. We had to give them their own rooms and they had to be looked after carefull (some tried to commit suicide). It was very hard to know what to say, I was just out of college a year and had a degree in psychology but not much experience. It was the hardest job I have ever had.
I am going back to school to be a teacher and my own kids are getting older so I can teach full time soon. I don't know if I can ever go back to doing that kind of job again. It stays with you and my husband said I seemed depressed during that time period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #113
122. Nobody should be raped n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
120. so,(summarizing all of the posts here), the weak are in danger of getting raped...
is that your point?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
124. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
129. It's used as a form of extra-judicial punishment and a crude deterrent.
Prison rape is a big part of what makes jail so unattractive. That's no justification for it, though. Such barbarism needs to be combated, not ignored.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
134. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
135. Another decent thread drowned in the bathtub.
Apologies to the OP for the vile turn this thread took.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #135
157. No, It Really Wasn't
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 09:48 AM by NashVegas
A decent thread wouldn't have tried to assert numbers purporting to show that the crime of rape against men was more prevalent or somehow worse than the crime of rape against women.

A decent thread would have given the numbers for rapes against men and left it to stand on its own.

Not only are the numbers false, but it was wholly unnecessary. Unlike rape of prisoners, the OP brought this one on himself for re-posting someone else's assertion as if it was their own, and not investigating the numbers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #157
159. Once again, you read meaning into the OP
that most other posters here do not. It has been explained multiple times that using comparative numbers does not diminish one side or the other. It has been explained multiple times that this is not a contest, but to no avail.

This will be my last post on the subject, as I have no illusions that you are going to change your mind on the matter.

You win. Neither you nor OM can be wrong or say anything inappropriate. You are above reproach, and the rest of DU that had legitimate issues with the benightedly disgusting comments made in this thread by OM are misogynistic sheeple who seek to minimize the existence of female rape. I think that about covers it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #159
233. "Explaining it multiple times" doesn't make it true. Explaining away the truth doesn't work, either
Except in this situation, where if a predominant number of people agree on the same mistakes, that's what counts.

As for your last comment, no such judgments were presented here at all.

We could hope more here would gain a better understanding of the facts and how to present them effectively. What I learned from the thread is that that is not considered important. When mob rule is in charge, it's not even important enough to consider.


"You win. Neither you nor (the mob) can be wrong or say anything inappropriate. You are above reproach"

It's hilarious you would make that accusation, considering how stubborn and knee jerk hostile the mob mentality here has been. And yes, it absolutely represents a male dominant POV.

That's not a judgment. It's a fact.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #233
253. Nah, not really.
But you knew that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #157
171. bingo (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #171
234. bingo squared
Thank you for entering the thread with correct information.

As I said just above, this thread shows that correct information and reasonable presentation don't really matter to a mob rule situation like this. If enough people agree to go along with a misguided, misrepresented, misleading and mistaken premise, than that's all they care about. They want to go ahead and talk about whatever. Those who suggest they consider the flawed premise are blamed for impeding their ability to carry on.

Those who would dare clarify or point out there may be glaring issues are "wrong" in the face of all that Truthiness.

This will be taken as a judgment by those who don't want to consider other points of view, but it's not. It's a valuable lesson. It explains the stubborness and hostility and foundation of willful ignorance. It explains why dissenting voices are supposed to just STFU and go away. Why do these types of attitudes love the word "rational" so much? :spray:

They can't or won't perceive or even consider what's being suggested as another POV -- so it's wrong, it's impossible, it's bad, it's ACCUSING them of something.

If they can't see it, it doesn't exist.



Orwell was right.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
154. And no one cares. In fact, folks joke about it. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dugaresa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
156. According to what I have read, rape is a crime related to control
the rapist wants to have control over the victim. It is also a humiliating crime that leaves the victims ashamed and traumatized.

Whether it is a war zone, an occupied country, or a prison, there are unfortunately the alpha personalities (typically male) that use rape to control the people around them.

So what can we do to prevent it? In a prison population it might be a good idea to give folks other outlets that provide them control over their situation, but I doubt that would eliminate all the incidences. The other would be to heavily control the populace and have prisoners housed in individual cells. The problem is that there are heavy costs associated with that in terms of labor (guards) and building/maintaining a larger prison. To be blunt, taxpayers don't normally want to spend anymore money than they have to on prisons and sadly the folks who end up in the prison system do not receive the empathy of the public at large.

And how do you punish the prison rapist that preys upon his fellow inmates? If a prison rapist already has a life sentence or a sentence that will guarantee his lifetime confinement, what can be done to punish that person that isn't already being done?

Outside a prison, what can we do to prevent rape other than the "fear factor" of going to prison? How do we reach out to the people who are about to commit these crimes to prevent them from hurting others?

It is easy to report statistics, it is a lot harder to try and deal with the issue realistically.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #156
177. A good starting point would be to learn from other countries
I admit this is not a subject I've looked at in detail, but I suspect rape is much less of a problem in the penal systems of the Scandinavian countries, which emphasise rehabilitation and relatively humane conditions. When you have a national problem, it's a good idea to find out whether other countries have a solution.

Outside a prison, what can we do to prevent rape other than the "fear factor" of going to prison?

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that the fear of being raped in prison is a worthwhile deterrent against rape outside of prison? I can't accept that. No society can call itself civilised that uses rape as punishment, whether it's committed by agents of the state or tacitly handed over to incarcerated thugs. Besides, a convicted rapist is likely to turn into a prison rapist, not a rape victim.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dugaresa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #177
181. the fear factor I was referring to was the idea of confinement
the incarceration itself.

Losing one's personal freedom I think is a big deterrent.

I don't condone the "lord of the flies" type of behavior that occurs within prisons. When someone is sent to jail for a crime the idea is to remove them from society because they apparently can't get along or behave properly. The very idea of having a sub culture that allows them to behave even more outside the bounds of polite society doesn't make sense and is probably why there is such a high recidivism rate.

Putting Johnny in prison for assault and rape and then having Johnny assaulted and raped in prison doesn't bode well for him getting along with others if he is released into a society that didn't condone his initial actions in the first place.

Contrary to what we like to believe, our society doesn't even respect people who have paid their debt to society because ex-cons can't get jobs or find themselves always dragging their prison experience along, like Marley carried his chains and lock boxes in A Christmas Carol, but in their cases they can never put it behind them fully.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
165. I agree the management of these companies should be held liable.

It's a terrible problem and by shutting our eyes to it, we also condone rape perpetrated against women. Rape should NEVER be tolerated. Strip searches as punishment come extremely close to rape as well. I believe personally it's all the same.

I've read somewhere that outside of prison, rape is often perpetrated against male victims of crimes like mugging or assault, in order to ensure that the victim will keep his mouth shut. It's such a taboo subject.

I also don't believe the OP denigrates the plight of women. The blog links to stats to the justice department regarding the topic, so people can certainly read up on female rape. It merely points out that while we CAN read up on the subject, and people DO try to reduce the numbers, absolutely nothing is done to help prisoner victims.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
166. your figures are FALSE

The figure of 90,000 is not the number of women raped in the United States every year.

It is the number of convictions for the rape of women.

E.g.:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

showing a rate of 30/100,000 population.

(Please note: country-to-country comparisons cannot be made using the figures at that site, which IMPROPERLY rank countries according to info reported on a questionnaire completed by national authorities; for Canada, the figures include other sexual assaults, probably including assaults on men.)


The real number of women who are raped each year will be a multiple of the 90,000 figure, reflecting the fact that only a fraction of rapes are reported, and only a fraction of reports lead to convictions.


I consider the fact that the sexual assault of men in prison is countenanced by authorities to be an atrocity.

I also consider the glee expressed by many people, and in particular many people at this website, at the idea of criminal offenders being sexually assaulted in prison to be utterly appalling.

But the practice of understating the atrocity that is the sexual assault of women, widespread and pervasive and, yes, systemic as it is in US society (and comparable societies), in order to draw attention to the abuse of men in prison, is unacceptable.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #166
187. understating the atrocity that is the sexual assault of women, widespread and pervasive and systemic
"But the practice of understating the atrocity that is the sexual assault of women, widespread and pervasive and, yes, systemic as it is in US society (and comparable societies), in order to draw attention to the abuse of men in prison, is unacceptable."

Excellent post. Thank you iverglas :applause:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #166
188. I figured that 90000 number was way too low.
Most rapes are committed by someone the woman knows, and often is in an intimate relationship with. Spousal rape is extremely common and rarely reported.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BolivarianHero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
170. Sadly, not all 140,000 of these victims are pedophiles...
If they were, my feelings would be different. But if we're throwing stoners in jail, innocent people are obviously being raped in prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #170
179. This post is an example of the problem.
the mindset here is that certain people "deserve" to be raped.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ariana Celeste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
173. Why can't both be wrong?
Not directed at OP but rather the responses.

Why can't we look at rape of men and women both as wrong? Do people honestly think that everyone in prison is there for violent crimes? And even if they were, what difference does that make? Sickening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #173
199. Both are wrong and so are the statistics
all of which has been noted in the thread several times.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
175. wardens and guards that allow it should be criminally prosecuted as accessories
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
176. A lot of people here hate the movie "Let's go to Prison"...I don't think they've ever seen it.
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 11:18 AM by YOY
The whole movie is about the failure of the penal system. Granted it makes light of that failure but it doesn't really make light of rape.

The opening has the main character talk about that number and say it could fill 3 football stadiums. "Can you imagine that? 3 football stadiums full of people raping each other?" He doesn't say it in a "funny way" either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
186. Are the prison rapes of women tallied as well?
Horrible that this happens to anyone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #186
193. No, I don't think so. I believe there is 'consensual rape' in prison (ie coerced rape) both F&M. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
create.peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
190. you really need to correct your statement by removing the per year.....
According to the study conducted by the United States Department of Justice for the year 2006, there were 2,205 allegations of inmate-on-inmate nonconsensual sexual acts reported, total, in the U.S. prison system. 262 of the allegations were substantiated.<4># ^ Allen J. Beck, Paige M. Harrison, Devon B. Adams: Sexual Violence Reported by Correctional Authorities, 2006. 2007

what you are referencing is not per year~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
191. National Review - quote - "Stop Prisoner Rape estimates that about 240,000 men get raped behind bars

(Sorry I've been away from this post - but I was involved in another - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6134285&mesg_id=6134285)


LINK - http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjhjM2IyMWY4ZGNlZmIyMzA0YTYxMmZiZTJmZmU2ZDE=

"The activist group Stop Prisoner Rape estimates that about 240,000 men get raped behind bars each year."


The rape of women is a terrible crime and in no way was I trying to minimize that issue. I had come upon an interesting post on the internet and just re-posted it here - with a link - because I though some people may be interested in helping male stop prison rape, AS WELL AS other forms of rape.

One of the core issues, to me, is that we live in a country in which the prisons are run on a for-profit basis, and they want high recidivism rates, so that they will have more prisoners in the future and hence be able to make more money. This is why I feel they are responsible for these rapes.

What do you think happens to someone who is raped in prison?

Here is a good 5 minute video of the man who started the organization that collected the statistics sighted in the header:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTjBk6A_zfQ


I think we can all agree we need to stop rape in all its forms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
create.peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #191
204. the man who was Eastern Regional Director
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
create.peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #191
205. searched to find evidence of 240000, but even the supposed source doesn't have it!
In a 2007 study, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that more than 60,000 inmates are sexually abused every year. The study found that 4.5 percent of those surveyed reported being sexually abused in the previous 12 months.

_ Inmates who are short, young, gay, or female were more likely to be victimized than other inmates.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/prison-rape-could-cost-st_n_220041.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
192. Well this thread sure turned into a big Charlie Foxtrot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #192
195. Oops. I never imagined.... nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #192
198. SNAFU
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #192
222. Yep, our local censors decided it was not worthy-Arguing for the sake of argument-like repub talk
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
194. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #194
197. True
You do have a point. It is often used for comedic effect in movies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rantormusing Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
210. Thanks for the post
As someone who has been sexually assaulted by a man and a WOMAN it's important to shed light on the FACT that rape can happen to either gender especially since men most likely won't report it. I hate to think of what the numbers would be inside and out of prison if men actually reported the same these crimes. It's OBVIOUS that men will keep silent.


Don't apologize to anyone for posting this as is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jairus Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
213. I'm the blogger who wrote the original post, and
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 06:30 PM by Jairus
I just want to be clear that the reason I included stats on female rape was to provide some sense of scale for the problem, and isn't in any way a statement about male-rape-vs-female-rape or any kind of gender-positive comparison analysis. (If what I wanted to do was diminish the problem of female rape, as some people have suggested, why would I go out of my way to tell people that over 90,000 women are raped in the US every year?)

The post isn't about the comparative problems that men face compared to women, or any kind of my-numbers-are-bigger-than-your-numbers. The post would have been exactly the same post if the numbers were reversed, and the male numbers were smaller. It's about the scale.

The post is about the fact that massive numbers of men are being raped, and no one knows, and no one cares.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #213
214. Several posters in the thread have checked the data. The numbers are not accurate.
The presentation set up a comparison, whether you intended to or not.

If "The post is about the fact that massive numbers of men are being raped, and no one knows, and no one cares"

and if you went "out of my way to tell people that over 90,000 women are raped in the US every year?" (OUT of your way?...........)

it might have been better to leave it out. As posters here pointed out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jairus Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #214
216. If I had anticipated your derailing the discussion, I would have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #216
218. The attackers derailed the discussion, not I. Take responsibility for your own work
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 07:21 PM by omega minimo
now or in the future. You can learn something constructive from this, instead of being dense and insulting like the people who really derailed the thread.

"2. Some of those men in prison raped those women" was a simple enough comment, as relevant and absurd as the clearly skewed numbers in the OP that did, yes, invite comparison. And they're inaccurate. Comparing apples and oranges. Maybe you can "go out of your way" next time to find better data. :thumbsup:



Thank you for speaking to DU about it. Good luck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jairus Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #218
219. As far as I can tell, yours was the second reply.
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 07:19 PM by Jairus
But hey, I don't know this site and I might be reading the numbers wrong.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, one way or the other. Some people were interested in discussing prison rape, and other people were not. I just wanted to make it clear what the post was -not- about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #219
220. You do yourself a disservice for future work
if you don't recognize the reality of your post, the unavoidable and undeniable comparison of numbers, which aren't accurate in the first place.

Just think about it. :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #213
215. Some of us got that.

Thanks for blogging about it. Aside from the fact that rape is such a horrible, devastating crime to begin with, those who are raped in prison can't escape their tormentors. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #213
223. I have come to the conclusion that IGNORED is after attention, not discussion
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #223
237. oh, I just have to guffaw in public here

"I have come to the conclusion that IGNORED is after attention, not discussion"

Yes, someone who puts other participants in a discussion "on ignore" (after writing 24 posts at this site!?! - just a fast learner, I guess) is surely "after discussion".

:rofl:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #237
240. Don't guffaw on their huff, iverglas. How rude. They'll huff and they'll puff and they'll BLOW
your post down. :spray:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #213
224. Thank you for that thoughtful piece.
I have a friend that I strongly suspect was raped in prison, and lives in silent shame. So I appreciate your contribution on the subject.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #213
225. The Rational People Understood That.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #225
227. Is it "rational" to accept flawed data as a given?
Oh -- okay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #227
228. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #213
235. I had wanted to direct you to a previous post of mine in this thread

but for some reason it has disappeared.

I pointed out that you (a fellow Canadian) were evidently a bit of an amateur at all this. Unfortunately, the author of the opening post chose to cite your blog post about the issue rather than, say, the HRW study itself, which was linked from your blog post. This was very sloppy practice on that poster's part, since it necessarily made your blog post the topic of discussion, rather than the issue it raised.

We do have a bit of a demonstration of the dangers of the internet here. Blogs by unknown persons really are not the best sources for data or authoritative analysis of data.

The HRW study itself raises and examines an important issue: the abuse of incarcerated individuals and the tolerance of that abuse by prison authorities and society at large. People who want to discuss the issue would do well to read that study, not just look at a couple of numbers and dive into a discussion of the issue head first. Sadly, that sort of informed discussion doesn't happen much at DU these days.

That issue is entirely independent of and unrelated to the rates of violence against women in society.

(That is a bit of an over-simplification; there are indeed commonalities that could be considered, such as the extent to which the source of both lies in patriarchy ... but in that regard, there are obviously very important distinctions between the two phenomena as well.)

Nonetheless, the assertion that 90,000 women are raped in the US in a year is false.

That figure is the number of police-recorded rapes.

The figure you cited for the number of rapes of men in prison (actually, I do not believe that "rape" is an accurate word for that phenomenon) is derived from a study that relied on self-reporting by a relatively small, and to a large extent self-selected, sample of the male prison population.

That figure may be a very good estimate. But it is not comparable to the number of police-reported rapes of women in the US in a year. The actual number of women and girls who are raped in a year in the US is very much higher than that.

So you set up your thesis badly, and you set yourself up for a fall.

I would hope that you would do some research now and understand this -- both that the figures you chose to compare are pure apples and oranges, and perhaps more importantly, that it is inappropriate to set up a comparison between the phenomenon of sexual violence committed by men against women in society and the phenomenon of sexual violence committed by men against men in prisons.

And I would hope that as a result you would remove the specious comparison from your blog post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #235
246. Well put. A teachable moment.
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #235
251. Too Many Bloggers Have Information, With No Knowledge and No Wisdom
It's not just bloggers, it's also half the people you see on Twitter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #251
252. heh

It's not just bloggers, it's also half the people you see on Twitter.

That would be half of zero, in my case. ;)

I'm old enough that I think I may be able to go to my grave without ever seeing a tweet. I will probably succumb to morbid curiosity at some point, though.

The internet is a wonderful thing. There is so much here to learn, so much to discover, so much to consider.

I realized very early on at this place that information and understanding are not valued a fraction as much here, and in similar places, as opinion. Never mind what the opinion is, or whether it's informed opinion, or what purpose it's expressed for. It's an opinion, and somebody has it, and it's good by definition. And they're entitled to express it, goldarn it!

One similar place is the Jerry Springer show. ;)

Me, I can never figure out why somebody else's bare opinion would be of any interest to me at all!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #252
255. LOL
"I'm old enough that I think I may be able to go to my grave without ever seeing a tweet."


"Never mind what the opinion is, or whether it's informed opinion, or what purpose it's expressed for. It's an opinion, and somebody has it, and it's good by definition. And they're entitled to express it, goldarn it!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
229. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
231. That would have made an interesting topic for my gender studies class
I'll have to pass on the source to my former professor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #231
236. do please pass on the *actual* source

I would hope you clicked on the link in the OP and identified the source of the actual relevant assertion (the assertion about women raped in the US being entirely and egregiously inaccurate, since the source it links to is a report of the number of police-reported rapes only), but just in case not:

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2001/prison/report.html

In the blog post in question itself, the words "over 140,000 men are raped in the United States" link to that study:



a report by Human Rights Watch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #236
239. What would be far more interesting for a gender studies class...

...is why OM finds it safe to spend an entire two days derailing a discussion about rape in prison instead of starting a potentially positive outcome thread about female rape.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #239
241. if you have something to say to/about omega minimo

Kindly have the common decency, and guts, not to hide it away in a post addressed to me, in which I have no interest whatsoever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #241
242. If you don't want replies... why do you post?

If you can't really bear it. :eyes:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #242
243. if you can explain how your post was a REPLY to mine

you feel free.


If you don't want replies... why do you post?

For your edification:

http://thinkexist.com/dictionary/meaning/reply/

That which is said, written, or done in answer to what is said,
written, or done by another; an answer; a response.

Your post:

What would be far more interesting for a gender studies class...
...is why OM finds it safe to spend an entire two days derailing
a discussion about rape in prison instead of starting a potentially
positive outcome thread about female rape.


not only made no sense in itself, it is also in no sense whatsoever a "reply" to what I said.

Do feel free to go find someone to play with who might be interested in such nonsense. As I understand it, this discussion forum is for adults capable of coherent thought.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #243
245. "As I understand it, this discussion forum is for adults capable of coherent thought."
Apparently not always. If people want to talk based on incorrect data cuz it doesn't really matter even though it sets up the discussion, they don't want to be bothered with FACTS.

Good to know. :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #239
244. Your callout matches the lack of interest in facts by those here with the mob mentality
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #244
247. You know what?

I do understand what you said by your first post. Very well, and it was fine you said it. But you just starting arguing with people in the wrong lane and it became not what you meant it to be.

I think I'll start out my own OP wondering why we have this prob of rape in prison. I would like to know why people find it okay. If it's okay in prison, it's acceptable elsewhere. You presume rape in prison occurs because it's accepted to do that to women? I think it's done to women because men find it okay to brutalize themselves. Just a thought.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #247
248. You presume too much
"You presume rape in prison occurs because it's accepted to do that to women? "


No. I don't.

The numbers and set up of the piece were flawed. I commented on that. For perspective. FWIW. The OP was absurd, the premise was absurd, my (simple, true) comment was absurdist pointing to absurdity, the reaction was absurd -- AND AGGRESSIVE AND VIOLENT! Go figure.

Facts, context, perspective, not highly valued by the mob in the thread. Now we know. People want to talk in response to something and it doesn't matter what it's actually presenting. Fine. They can have it. No one can tell them different. Facts are stupid things and they make people MAD.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #248
250. Which facts? That over 90,000 women are raped every year?
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 07:17 PM by Gwendolyn
I'll go with that. It could mean millions or less.

I can't imagine who would provide the numbers. As much as no one can really know how many men are raped in prison each year.

Why are you hung up on numbers and not the deed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
249. If the outside population is still not 100% behind preventing rape
and punishing those that do it to the fullest extent of the law how can we expect to resolve the prison problem?

I agree that prisons and hospitals should be non-profit organizations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC