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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:43 PM
Original message
How do insurance companies make money?
I'm sure everyone can guess, but the time for assumptions is over.

I think it would be nice to actually see how insurance companies make money and what they spend it on.

Anyone know?

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Other than the obvious, they're HUGE holders of corporate stocks and bonds.
Insurance reserves are the "big stick" for these companies.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Would you mind giving a little more detail?
I know lurkers read DU. It would be nice if some of them accidentally learned something.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Insurance companies are required to maintain "statutory reserves" sufficient ...
... to pay expected claims. The "expectation" is actuarially determined and is 'fudged' by the states in which the company is licensed to do business. Once upon a time, the companies pushed back against higher levels of reserves ... but they now take a "don't throw me in the briar patch" posture, gaining a great deal of power and influence with such portfolios.

(My late uncle was the Insurance Commissioner for the State of Michigan under Soapy Williams.)

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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. primarily by investing the money from the premium pool....
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 05:47 PM by mike_c
The investment returns are their profit. Minus any money they pay out in claims, of course.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Where does the "premium pool" come from?
I know lurkers read DU. It would be nice if some of them accidentally learned something.

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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:52 PM
Original message
here's the section on underwriting and investing...
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 05:52 PM by mike_c
...from wikipedia, as good a general summary as any:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance

Insurers' business model

Underwriting and investing


The business model can be reduced to a simple equation: Profit = earned premium + investment income - incurred loss - underwriting expenses.

Insurers make money in two ways: (1) through underwriting, the process by which insurers select the risks to insure and decide how much in premiums to charge for accepting those risks and (2) by investing the premiums they collect from insured parties.

The most complicated aspect of the insurance business is the underwriting of policies. Using a wide assortment of data, insurers predict the likelihood that a claim will be made against their policies and price products accordingly. To this end, insurers use actuarial science to quantify the risks they are willing to assume and the premium they will charge to assume them. Data is analyzed to fairly accurately project the rate of future claims based on a given risk. Actuarial science uses statistics and probability to analyze the risks associated with the range of perils covered, and these scientific principles are used to determine an insurer's overall exposure. Upon termination of a given policy, the amount of premium collected and the investment gains thereon minus the amount paid out in claims is the insurer's underwriting profit on that policy. Of course, from the insurer's perspective, some policies are "winners" (i.e., the insurer pays out less in claims and expenses than it receives in premiums and investment income) and some are "losers" (i.e., the insurer pays out more in claims and expenses than it receives in premiums and investment income); insurance companies essentially use actuarial science to attempt to underwrite enough "winning" policies to pay out on the "losers" while still maintaining profitability.

An insurer's underwriting performance is measured in its combined ratio. The loss ratio (incurred losses and loss-adjustment expenses divided by net earned premium) is added to the expense ratio (underwriting expenses divided by net premium written) to determine the company's combined ratio. The combined ratio is a reflection of the company's overall underwriting profitability. A combined ratio of less than 100 percent indicates underwriting profitability, while anything over 100 indicates an underwriting loss.

Insurance companies also earn investment profits on “float”. “Float” or available reserve is the amount of money, at hand at any given moment, that an insurer has collected in insurance premiums but has not been paid out in claims. Insurers start investing insurance premiums as soon as they are collected and continue to earn interest on them until claims are paid out. The Association of British Insurers (gathering 400 insurance companies and 94% of UK insurance services) has almost 20% of the investments in the London Stock Exchange.

In the United States, the underwriting loss of property and casualty insurance companies was $142.3 billion in the five years ending 2003. But overall profit for the same period was $68.4 billion, as the result of float. Some insurance industry insiders, most notably Hank Greenberg, do not believe that it is forever possible to sustain a profit from float without an underwriting profit as well, but this opinion is not universally held. Naturally, the “float” method is difficult to carry out in an economically depressed period. Bear markets do cause insurers to shift away from investments and to toughen up their underwriting standards. So a poor economy generally means high insurance premiums. This tendency to swing between profitable and unprofitable periods over time is commonly known as the "underwriting" or insurance cycle. <6>

Property and casualty insurers currently make the most money from their auto insurance line of business. Generally better statistics are available on auto losses and underwriting on this line of business has benefited greatly from advances in computing. Additionally, property losses in the United States, due to unpredictable natural catastrophes, have exacerbated this trend.

Claims


Claims and loss handling is the materialized utility of insurance; it is the actual "product" paid for, though one hopes it will never need to be used. Claims may be filed by insureds directly with the insurer or through brokers or agents. The insurer may require that the claim be filed on its own proprietary forms, or may accept claims on a standard industry form such as those produced by ACORD.

Insurance company claim departments employ a large number of claims adjusters supported by a staff of records management and data entry clerks. Incoming claims are classified based on severity and are assigned to adjusters whose settlement authority varies with their knowledge and experience. The adjuster undertakes a thorough investigation of each claim, usually in close cooperation with the insured, determines its reasonable monetary value, and authorizes payment. Adjusting liability insurance claims is particularly difficult because there is a third party involved (the plaintiff who is suing the insured) who is under no contractual obligation to cooperate with the insurer and in fact may regard the insurer as a deep pocket. The adjuster must obtain legal counsel for the insured (either inside "house" counsel or outside "panel" counsel), monitor litigation that may take years to complete, and appear in person or over the telephone with settlement authority at a mandatory settlement conference when requested by the judge.

In managing the claims handling function, insurers seek to balance the elements of customer satisfaction, administrative handling expenses, and claims overpayment leakages. As part of this balancing act, fraudulent insurance practices are a major business risk that must be managed and overcome. Disputes between insurers and insureds over the validity of claims or claims handling practices occasionally escalate into litigation; see insurance bad faith.

more@link
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thank you. n/t
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. (1) By winning bets with us, (2) Investment income.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. LOL! Winning bets!? What do you mean by that!? n/t
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I, Mr. Insurance Company bet you, Joe Schmoe that you won't get sick within the next year...
If I win, I keep ur premium. If I lose, I pay your med bills.

That's the basic structure.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. And every month the bet is remade? n/t
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Bet is for the length of the policy, which I simply stipulated was 1 year. Just a detail.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. OK, I just used "by the month" because that's usually when people pay their premium. n/t
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. That's just a method of amortizing the entire premium-cost of the bet....
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 06:06 PM by BlooInBloo
With other forms of insurance one might have options on how to pay the entire cost of the policy, e.g., lump-sum at the beginning of the bet (policy).
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Terry in Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Odds always in favor of the house, of course -nt
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Naturally.
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Stagecoach Donating Member (468 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. Pretty simple
From our premiums, and then see what claims they can get out of paying.
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DebbieCDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. Collect premiums, pay no claims, make big bucks
That's the long and short of it.

Any more gravy they can make by investing the premiums just lines their pockets all the more.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. The sexiest jobs in the insurance industry belong to those who invest
the money, I am told.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. And lest we forget AIG was (is?) an insurance company.


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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. charge huge premiums and minimize payments
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. off suffering and misery
health insurance is nothing more than profiting from sickness and disease. One more middle man with their hands in our pockets.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. kind of like a casino does.
they'r the 'house', and the house ALWAYS wins.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. Simple collect premiums and invest it,
lobby, make political contributions and pay out as little as possible for claims.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You bring up lobbyists. How can insurance companies afford such an expense!?
Not to mention all those TV commercials?

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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
24. In simplest terms: They take it from you and do their best not to give it back.
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 06:49 PM by FiveGoodMen
They also make investments while they're holding the money.

In particular, they invest in a lot of politicians.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You'd think it would be obvious to people by now what insurance companies do with their billions.
But, I guess spending money on lobbyists while denying coverage is acceptable to those afflicted by tea-baggers' syndrome.

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. By playing "god" and deciding who lives and who dies and who they are going to stick it to.
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 06:47 PM by earth mom
:puke:
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N7255Q Donating Member (147 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
28. When you buy life insurance, you are betting you will die before they think you will.
You win by losing.
:shrug:
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
29. By collecting payments, denying claims and screwing over people who end up with serious conditions.
It has been said here before, anyone who is happy with their insurance policy has never had to use it for a serious health problem. I suppose Congress would be the exception.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hand over fist. nt
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
31. Through the blood and financial ruin of their vicims who THINK they have nothing to worry about
because they give then a weekly or monthly fee.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. Insurance companies make money by denying legitimate claims.
From an insurance company's standpoint, the good insurance customer never makes a claim, never has a claim made against their insurance, and only sends money TO the insurance company.

By denying legitimate claims and by underpaying claims, insurers make profit. Every dollar they can avoid paying out in claims is a dollar to the bottom line.

Insurance companies make a number of investments, and those investments are usually required by law to be one of several types. They're big in providing financing packages for major buildings. Most of the big buildings in big cities are financed by insurance companies. While insurance companies can make profit by their investments, they also lose money in economic declines because of their investments. Their investment port folios decline in value as the market in general declines.

Caveat: life insurance is a little different. They make money by doing good actuarial work, and that allows them to "bet" soundly that you will not die before your premiums have more than paid your policy benefits.

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