There are three things about this war that are problematic -

1) It is morally reprehensible. There is NO religion that thinks otherwise right now. That is one thing. And I think I am a fairly good christian.
2) Strategically foolish - we entered a war with something to lose and nothing to win. I cannot begin to say just how dumb that is.
3) We are 0 and 3 in limited wars in the 20th Century - tell me, who is the genuis that thought this one was a good idea - where is he hiding right now??

Technically we are screwed. Morally we were screwed before we started - again - whose brain child was this - they NEED to be "run out of town on a rail" - so they can NEVER do this again to us!!!!

Joe

5.9 billion is it per week, so about 5.9 billion 3500 problematic things.

Personally - I can understand the other reasons - It is that morally reprehensible thing that gets me.

I am not a very good christian - but the guy that started this - he is no christian at all.

That really pisses me off!!

Joe

When my brothers graduated from Ord - I was so proud of them. I wasn't born when dad got his commission or mom did - but I KNOW how my grandparents felt - I know. WHen Troy got out of Leonard-Wood - I was SO proud of him, so proud.

I know what you mean man - if you could really do something, you sure wouldn't get stuck in the army - where you get paid - maybe a third of what you get in the real world??

We all know - you get what you pay for.

I don't want to let go on them - but I can. I learned that.

Joe

<snip>
The US Invasion of Grenada: A Twenty Year Retrospective
By Stephen Zunes*
Foreign Policy in Focus
October 2003

It has been exactly twenty years since the U.S. forces invaded Grenada, ending that Caribbean island nation's four-year socialist experiment. An island nation no bigger than Martha's Vineyard, with a population that could barely fill the Rose Bowl, was defeated with relatively few American casualties. President Ronald Reagan's decision to occupy the country and replace the government with one more to his liking proved to be quite popular in the United States, with polls indicating that 63% of the public supported the invasion.

On this anniversary, it would be worth looking back at the Grenadian revolution, the U.S. invasion and its aftermath, and the important precedent it set for "regime change" through U.S. military intervention.
<MORE>

http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/history/2003/10grenada.htm

An Italian Fascist style Blitzkrieg lightening war where the most powerful nation in the history of the world over ran a country that had no way to defend itself.

What little I thought I "knew" has propaganda written all over it in light of your link! Link bookmarked. Thank you whistle.

I do think he gave good speeches.

Pretty FDR family I come from - I think a lot of us did.

A lot of our families fought to the death - Nazis and Japs - that would have done us.

WHat I am trying to figure out- its how they were smart enough to know that???

CLearly, there is something they knew we don't - to this day.

Joe

....oligarchies and how these two evils create and perpetuate the class struggle between the haves and the have nots. Unfortunately, those who understood these evils fully and who might have made a difference to the current generation were slaughtered throughout Europe, South West Asia, Northern Africa and in the South Pacific. Following WWII, like toxic mushrooms and fungus which proliferates in dark damp rotting soil, fascism has has again risen and grown from the shadows and decay of western civilization and spread its putrid influence throughout the world.

<snip>
Characteristics of Fascist Philosophy

Fascism, especially in its early stages, is obliged to be antitheoretical and frankly opportunistic in order to appeal to many diverse groups. Nevertheless, a few key concepts are basic to it. First and most important is the glorification of the state and the total subordination of the individual to it. The state is defined as an organic whole into which individuals must be absorbed for their own and the state's benefit. This “total state” is absolute in its methods and unlimited by law in its control and direction of its citizens.

A second ruling concept of fascism is embodied in the theory of social Darwinism. The doctrine of survival of the fittest and the necessity of struggle for life is applied by fascists to the life of a nation-state. Peaceful, complacent nations are seen as doomed to fall before more dynamic ones, making struggle and aggressive militarism a leading characteristic of the fascist state. Imperialism is the logical outcome of this dogma.

Another element of fascism is its elitism. Salvation from rule by the mob and the destruction of the existing social order can be effected only by an authoritarian leader who embodies the highest ideals of the nation. This concept of the leader as hero or superman, borrowed in part from the romanticism of Friedrich Nietzsche, Thomas Carlyle, and Richard Wagner, is closely linked with fascism's rejection of reason and intelligence and its emphasis on vision, creativeness, and “the will.”

<MORE>

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0818306.html

I live in North Carolina, a state which is home to multiple military bases and to thousands of military families and troops. I believe there is no more patriotic place to live than here. Bush has 'misused' our troops and families in North Carolina on numerous occasions as a backdrop and prop to promote his 'war plans.'

For the most part, our troops and their families do their duty and keep their opinions to themselves. Quite admirable considering the disaster they are caught up in. However, many of us know them, know the pain they are going through and the true feelings they have about this war and the way it has been conducted.

North Carolinians are most appreciative and supportive of the troops and these families, and Bush leveraged that support in past elections. However, the truth is apparent to everyone concerned in North Carolina, and Bush could not win any support here today based upon his playing the 'we must support our troops card.'

Many of us are outraged, simply outraged that our service members and their families have been so horribly mistreated at every turn. And now we are seeing the beginnings of military families speaking out against Bush and this war. This really is a turning point, and it underscores the 70% disapproval rating Bush is dragging around.

When military families speak out publicly, you know the pain has reached a critical point. I hope the rest of the country realizes what has been done to these true patriots and their families who have given so much to serve the rest of us. We cannot turn our backs on them now, and we must bring the troops home and provide them with the medical care they deserve.

Joe for Clark, thank you for your service and the service of your family on behalf of our country, and know that many of us understand the damage that Bush has done to each of you. You are not forgotten. And when we oppose this war, and do what we can to end it, we are supporting the troops. We care.