NO SINGLE PAYER NO VOTE - We can't afford anything less

Truly, with our economy,our debt, the shape that Social Security and Medicare are in, not to mention the general infrastructure and how much it is going to cost just to make a sizable dent in these problems, we're in no position to be fucking around with one of our largest expenditures.Half the Defense budget needs to go and single payer/universal coverage is the only Health care coverage option we should be talking about. Every expert agrees that's the only way to insure coverage to the kinds of numbers that really makes a difference and is by far the most cost effective option.

This country is not in a position to be diddling about with half measures and convoluted, complicated schemes arising from the politics of greed, fear, special interests, or ideology. Now, as much as anytime in this nation's existence we face a crisis that will impact the very foundation the 'great experiment' has been built upon.

We know that SPUC works because we can see it working successfully all over this planet. This isn't the time to be dallying about and playing gotcha. I realize it hardly hits home to a large, large number of those we have picked to sit in DC, but this is a matter of life and death. This is the real thing, not a dress rehearsal.

Whatever else we hafta do it's ultimately destined to fail because there will never be money for it w/o SPUC and some massive DoD cuts. Let's concentrate on the Single Payer Universal Coverage for now and strike while the iron is hot.

NO SINGLE PAYER NO VOTE!

Are we talking about the same "we"?

Status quo continued?

I wasn't aware when I cast my vote I was taking some bizarre loyalty oath to agree with every bad idea he comes up with. And, didn't he tell us we had to "hold his feet to the fire"?

So complain, but recognize that.

I did not vote "for" anything but the lesser of evils.

Did you know that many green party voters considered Wellstone to be the lesser of two evils? His DOMA vote sealed it for them.

every bad move he makes becasue "we knew what we were getting".

And yes, Wellstone's DOMA vote caused a lot of problems for him as well it should have. He also had the good sense to listen to those who had disagreed with it and allowed them to educate him about how he had been wrong. He regreted that vote and would not have made the error again. Obama won't even discuss single payer. He said he'd listen to all views - not just the ones from all insurance companies.

Wellstone also had the character to vote against the IWR even though he was told it would kill his chance at reelection - the only one up for reelection to vote against it. It's clear we wouldn't see a move like that from Obama as it wouldn't be "pragmatic".

who are willing to tell the truth agree. Bill Moyers had two on tonight and the conclusion is throwing more money at a non working system is worse than nothing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6144740&mesg_id=6144740

Insurance companies and health industry can buy enough congress folks (of both parties) to stop that sort of nonsense. Some plan will pass, it will be called progress, single-payer will raise up as an issue again in 60 years.

Truman couldn't get it done. Obama doesn't even want to try.

all or nothing.

automatically given a seat at the table? fuck 'em. they're taking nearly half our health care dollar and they provide exactly zero care.
they don't diagnose
they don't treat
they don't heal
they don't comfort
they don't medicate
they don't minister
they don't change the bedpan

and with actuarial science being what it is they barely take a risk.

We need these blood sucking ticks as part of a healthy and vibrant health care system why exactly?

My point is we are in deep shit. you may not mind have it impacted in your nasal passages,but me, I'm damn sick and tired of it and we're past time for the not nearly radical move to SPUC.

Because it's idiotic.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07242009/profile.html

I don't think so.

do the country a disservice. Single-payer advocates who make sense.

they will be voting against whatever emerges at the end of this, too. I guess that is when they turn into idiots.

Maybe they will be satisfied with a strong public option and vote for it. If it's weak, I expect them to vote against it before Obama gets a chance to veto it.

Why would they be idiots to vote against a weak bill?

of congress to make sure we have either a very weak public option or none at all. There is no strong public option, it would mean open enrollment, that is not what the insurance companies are paying for.

I've heard public option supporters distort it (like Rep Donna Edwards on Stephanie Miller yesterday saying that a private plan with a $5k deductible is unacceptable - when the House plan has exactly the same thing in it).

The CBO says it will cost as much as private insurance it also says that only 10 million people will be covered by it by 2019 (Obama has said it would take "years" for it to ramp up).

The House venison of the bill requires most of us to continue to pay into the for-profits for years and in addition to premiums there will be thousands of dollars in out of pocket expenses for those over the income limits for subsidies (actually, out of pocket will increase with your income even if you earn less than the limit). Pelosi has said they may raise the income limit for the tax surcharge but there has been talk of lowering the income eligibility for subsidies.

This bill is one big gift to the insurance companies and does nothing to improve access for most of us - in fact it might make it worse.

The House voted down the amendment that would have required them to use the public option - that ought to tell you somthing about how good it is. Congress isn't willing to give up the taxpayrer subsidized insurance they have now to pick up the option they think is good enough for us.

I personally am not one due to the fact the powers that be. But that is what we are left with along with medicare cuts and talk about waste in the public sector. Because the powers that be must be greased with the remnants of our hope.

we go to them, sit in their streets and don't leave until we get what we want.

Mid to late August, we hold rallies, with lit torches, at everyone's district office.
Labor Day weekend we start massing in DC.
Labor Day we have a huge free concert, and get Dennis, Howard and Rep Weiner to address the massive crowd.
Tuesday September 8 we pass out torches and light them and start shouting our demand for single payer, medicare for all or whatever the hell you think the best brand name is.

Does that mean he's one of the people claiming half measures are better than nothing, as another poster suggests?

I don't necessarily agree with it (nor do I necessarily disagree with it).

I still think we should mobilize and let Congress know what we REALLY want, regardless of your view, or the President's view, of what is possible.

Maybe the doctors should set up a free health care clinic on the mall.

A LOT of doctors, providing a LOT of care, right in front of Congress. So they can see the people they are killing.

Maybe some on the whitehouse lawn too.

and on K Street.

I don't see where we will ever have a chance this good again.

get us what we need and what the nation needs.