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Viewpoint: The Stupidity of the Gates Arrest

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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:07 PM
Original message
Viewpoint: The Stupidity of the Gates Arrest
By Lawrence O'Donnell, Jr.

Here is what the absurdist, typically stilted police language of Sergeant James Crowley's official report on his arrest of Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates really means:

Gates: You're not the boss of me!
Crowley: I am the boss of you.
Gates: You are not the boss of me!
Crowley: I'll show you. You're under arrest.

There is no crime described in Crowley's official version of the way Gates behaved. Crowley says explicitly that he arrested Gates for yelling. Nothing else, not a single threatening movement, just yelling. On the steps of his own home. Yelling is not a crime. Yelling does not meet the definition of disorderly conduct in Massachusetts. Not a single shouted word or action that Crowley has attributed to Gates amounts to disorderly conduct. That is why the charges had to be dropped. (Read TIME's report: "Gates' Disorderly Conduct: The Police's Judgment Call")

In classically phony police talk, Crowley refers to " continued tumultuous behavior." When cops write that way, you know they have nothing. What is tumultuous behavior? Here's what it isn't: he brandished a knife in a threatening manner, he punched and kicked, he clenched his fist in a threatening manner, he threw a wrench or, in the Gates house, maybe a book. If the subject does any of those things, cops always write it out with precision. When they've got nothing, they use phrases that mean nothing. Phrases like tumultuous behavior.

Unless you confess to a crime,or threaten to commit a crime, there is nothing you can say to a cop that makes it legal for him to arrest you. You can tell him he is stupid, you can tell him he is ugly, you can call him racist, you can say anything you might feel like saying about his mother. He has taken an oath to listen to all of that and ignore it. That is the real teachable moment here — cops are paid to be professionals, but even the best of them are human and can make stupid mistakes.

We have an uncomfortable choice with Sergeant Crowley. Either he doesn't know what disorderly conduct is or Crowley simply decided to show Gates who's boss the only way he knew how at the time — by whipping out his handcuffs and abusing his power to arrest. Police make the latter choice in this country every day, knowing that the charges are going to have to be dropped. (See TIME's 10 Questions for Henry Louis Gates Jr.)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1912778,00.html?artId=1912778?contType=article?chn=us
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Crowley is not fit to be a police officer
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USA_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. entered illegally without a warrant
false arrest, harassment

where are the reich wingers to condemn needless government intrusion and abuses of civil liberties???
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. No warrant necessary in this case.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. If Jim Crow had enough to arrest Gates on suspicion, he would have.
He didn't. Yes, he needed a warrant.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. The other poster claimed was that he entered Gates house illegally for lack of a warrant. He did not
He had a report of a crime in progress from a witness who called and was on the scene. He had probable cause.

I wish you would read what you are responding to before you respond to it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Wrong. The fact is, when he got there, there was no sign of forced entry.
Were there any sign of forced entry, I'm sure this model officer would have included it in his report.

He did not have probable cause and that's why he tried to lure Gates outside from the moment he figured that out.

And I read just fine, thanks.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. No, he tried to lure Gates outside because at the time he was the only cop on the scene.
Read the police report, and do your homework this endless barrage of stupid emotional static from you is tiresome.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. LOL. Facts are tiresome, aren't they? Edit
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 06:04 PM by EFerrari
It's so funny that you're calling me "emotional" just like this freeper cop called Gates tumultuous.

There's not an emotional word in the post you're responding to. But, nice try.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
63. I'll bet you wish you could arrest her, eh?
She's just an uppity white lady who doesn't know her place. :sarcasm:
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keep_it_real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
75. Where did you read the police report? Post it in the forum.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. hyg
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Gates attorney said different in his statement.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. You mean this statement?
Statement on Behalf of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. -- by Charles Ogletree

This brief statement is being submitted on behalf of my client, friend, and colleague, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr. This is a statement concerning the arrest of Professor Gates. On July 16, 2009, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., 58, the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor of Harvard University, was headed from Logan airport to his home Cambridge after spending a week in China, where he was filming his new PBS documentary entitled “Faces of America.” Professor Gates was driven to his home by a driver for a local car company. Professor Gates attempted to enter his front door, but the door was damaged. Professor Gates then entered his rear door with his key, turned off his alarm, and again attempted to open the front door. With the help of his driver they were able to force the front door open, and then the driver carried Professor Gates’ luggage into his home.

Professor Gates immediately called the Harvard Real Estate office to report the damage to his door and requested that it be repaired immediately. As he was talking to the Harvard Real Estate office on his portable phone in his house, he observed a uniformed officer on his front porch. When Professor Gates opened the door, the officer immediately asked him to step outside. Professor Gates remained inside his home and asked the officer why he was there. The officer indicated that he was responding to a 911 call about a breaking and entering in progress at this address. Professor Gates informed the officer that he lived there and was a faculty member at Harvard University. The officer then asked Professor Gates whether he could prove that he lived there and taught at Harvard. Professor Gates said that he could, and turned to walk into his kitchen, where he had left his wallet. The officer followed him. Professor Gates handed both his Harvard University identification and his valid Massachusetts driver’s license to the officer. Both include Professor Gates’ photograph, and the license includes his address.

Professor Gates then asked the police officer if he would give him his name and his badge number. He made this request several times. The officer did not produce any identification nor did he respond to Professor Gates’ request for this information. After an additional request by Professor Gates for the officer’s name and badge number, the officer then turned and left the kitchen of Professor Gates’ home without ever acknowledging who he was or if there were charges against Professor Gates. As Professor Gates followed the officer to his own front door, he was astonished to see several police officers gathered on his front porch. Professor Gates asked the officer’s colleagues for his name and badge number. As Professor Gates stepped onto his front porch, the officer who had been inside and who had examined his identification, said to him, “Thank you for accommodating my earlier request,” and then placed Professor Gates under arrest. He was handcuffed on his own front porch.

Professor Gates was taken to the Cambridge Police Station where he remained for approximately 4 hours before being released that evening. Professor Gates’ counsel has been cooperating with the Middlesex District Attorneys Office, and the City of Cambridge, and is hopeful that this matter will be resolved promptly. Professor Gates will not be making any other statements concerning this matter at this time.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Looks the same, thanks for posting it. I was trying to track it down.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. One could dispute that a damaged door (from swelling due to rain/heat?) is not a sign of B&E
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 08:04 PM by HughMoran
What do you think?
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Or maybe the driver damaged it when he forced it open?
I personally have no idea what happened. Instincts tell me that 2 big egos collided.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Well, yeah!
We know 2 big egos collided, though I still have little sympathy when one ego with power subdues another using force.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. What force did he use? Gates was reportedly compliant when arrested.
I don't have any sympathy for either one of them.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Physical restraint in the form of handcuffs and he removed his freedom
If that's not force, I don't know what is!
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Okay. I thought you were referring to something specific that I wasn't aware of.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
93. Using force and misusing his power as a law enforcement officer.
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 12:41 PM by tblue37
That part tends toward police statism.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. If there were signs of forced entry, I'd expect Crowley to note it in his report. n/t
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Obama says he's an outstanding officer. I would expect an outstanding officer to have noted it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. And he noted no such thing.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Maybe he isn't as outstanding as Obama thinks.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Obama is a polite man.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Obama is also an honest man.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Yes, he seems to be.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #61
94. Obama is a skilled politician., one who knows the usefulness of
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 12:42 PM by tblue37
little white lies and polite fudging.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. Are you calling the President a liar?
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. Nope, there's a difference between being "a liar" and using good
sense to smooth over social chafing points with polite words that are not exactly true. People who pride themselves on always insisting on saying the absolute truth in social situations have a name: boors.

If everyone told the truth all the time, we'd all spend all our time fighting with each other and getting our feelings hurt.

For example, you will no doubt be annoyed when I say what I consider to be the truth--that you are just being silly and deliberately contrarian. But if I kept that to myself, no matter how true I believe it to be, I wouldn't annoy you at all.

Polite omission and little white lies are social goods, not evidence that one is "a liar."



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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. So that would be a yes. Got it.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. You're just playing today, Fire_Medic_Dave.
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 02:28 PM by tblue37
I notice the people on DU who make a habit of being contrarian, and I haven't noticed you doing that, so I have to assume you're just in the mood today.

Does Obama lie? Oh, definitely. Do all humans lie. Definitely. We are a social species, and polite lies are a social lubricant. But calling someone "a liar" is not the same thing as saying someone lies. Someone who deserves the label "liar" is someone who is deliberately mendacious, who tells lies unnecessarily, and often to malicious purpose, either to benefit himself or to harm others; or else it is someone who has a mental disturbance that prevents the person from being truthful, even when no benefit to himself (or no "useful" harm to another) will come from the lie.

Is Obama a liar? No--but he must inevitably "lie," as we all must. It is part of being human.

Dr. Phil, who is properly excoriated for making money by parading people with real problems for the entertainment of others, nevertheless has said some useful things.

One point he makes is that sometimes a situation or a relationship needs "a hero." He defines the sort of hero he means as the person who is willing to let go of the need to be right, to be vindicated, in the situation or the relationship, and who instead steps up to make it work, without demanding that his feelings or his "truth" and only his truth be validated.

Few human "truths" are absolute. I think Crowley behaved abominably, and I don't doubt that like many white people, perhaps especially white LEOs, he probably harbors some degree of racism, whether he is conscious of it or not. He was a dick in this situation, and he probably has been a dick in many other situations, but that doesn't mean that he has never behaved in a way that would justify calling his service as an LEO "outstanding." I imagine he has done many impressive, "outstanding" things as a police officer, even if he did a truly obnoxious and dumbass thing this time, and no doubt on other occasions as well.

Few people are all one thing or another. In this instance, President Obama just decided to step up and be the hero in the situation by validating the partial "truth" that Crowley is an "outstanding" officer rather than the partial "truth" that he is a stupid dick. Obama is so serenely self-confident that he does not need for his own narrow view of things to be the only one to be validated all the time.

(And in case you want to harp on my saying "his own narrow view," I am working from the reality that everyone's view of things is of necessity relatively narrow, since one person cannot know everything that goes into making up any complex situation.)
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. I think Crowley has a huge ego, I think Gates has a huge ego.
I don't think either one of them are evil men. Probably not either of thems best day. I think Obama spoke with Gates and privately Gates told him that he had been quite the ass to Crowley. I think that's when Obama came out with his outstanding officer comment, followed closely by Gates saying that it was time to move on and accepted the invite to the WH. That's just my opinion. It doesn't make Crowley look any better, he still overreacted and let a citizen get under his skin.

David
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Right--I agree with you on all points. nt
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USA_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Absolutely
The burden of proof is upon the government to demonstrate imminent threat of crime in order to justify entering without a warrant or consent.

Had the cops done their work properly, the charges against Gates would not have been dropped.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. no he didn't
His job was to investigate a possible break-in in progress. Finding a person on the premiss his job was to find out if the person had a right to be there or not. The 911 call of a possible break-in in progress is all the probable cause necessary as it should be.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Right. And in his investigation, he finds luggage on the porch
and no sign of forcible entry. Probable cause after examining the scene itself goes out the window.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. probable cause is the 911 call
That's ALL that's necessary. Once he observed Gates through the side window of the door his JOB was to find out if Gates had a right to be there. That's his JOB... to find out if the person he observed was a legal resident of the property, an invited guest or a robber. Luggage on the porch doesn't mean anything. Luggage COULD be filled with stolen items from the premesis by Observed Person the possible house robber. Wisely, Crowley suspected from his observations that Gates was probably legally allowed to be there, but his JOB is to find that out for certain. He asked Gates to come outside so he could determine if he had a right to be there - which is his JOB - because at that time he was the only officer on the scene.

Suppose Gates didn't live there and was robbing the house. Are the police supposed to observe the robber in the course of robbing the house and then leave to go get a warrant and come back to present to the robber with the assumption the robber would still be there??? That's what you are suggesting police procedure should be and it's utterly absurd.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. When the PD get to the prem and there is no sign of forced entry
at all, no, what I'm suggesting is not utterly absurd in any way. Crackpots call the PD every day with wrong reports. That's why officeers go to the site, to see for themselves.
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USA_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #28
101. Exactly - a 911 call does not automatically create ''probable cause''
If someone made a 911 call which alleges that the corner shopkeeper is a child molester that does not give grounds for police to enter his home or to arrest anyone without some evidence that a crime is imminent.

The facts in Cambridge simply do not constitute ''probable cause'' no matter how the cop supporters try to twist it.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
84. No, the 911 call is not probable cause for entering someone's home
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 09:01 PM by fishwax
Investigate, yes, but entering the home requires a reasonable belief that there is a burglary in process. By his own report it appears clear that Crowley did not believe there was a burglary in progress when he entered the house.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. The driver had moved the luggage inside, according to Gates attorney.
The driver had also damaged the front door when he was able to force it open, again according to Gates attorney.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
55. I have to wonder why it's Gate's lawyer supplying these details
that clearly belonged in the police report.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. The officer probably wasn't aware of what took place before he arrived.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. But as the responding officer, it's his job to assess the prem.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. How would that have informed him of who moved the luggage inside?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. Not whom. He would have seen luggage in the foyer or on the landing.
In all my years of being ferried back and forth with my comedian husband, no limo driver has ever taken my luggage upstairs.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. Why would he have noted that in his report?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Because most people don't have luggage sitting around in their foyer
for no reason?
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. I don't know how much luggage he had or how big his foyer is.
Anyone would clearly notice luggage in my 3 foot by 3 foot foyer. I'm no Harvard professor and I'm certainly not paid as well. If the officer did notice the luggage then he should have been less suspicious of a B and E actually having occurred. Although some people leave their luggage out for quite some time and sometimes people who have recently returned from trips are the victims of B and E.

david
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Wow that's ignorant. Have you read even one version of what happened.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. Obama called him an outstanding officer and invited him to the WH for a beer.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. that doesn't change what i said
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. No you are entitled to your opinion just like the President.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. i understand that the President is a politician and knows the whorishness of the media
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. I personally don't like to call President Obama a liar.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. i understand race politics as does Obama , just look at how Sotomayor had to continually
apologize for oppressing white men during the hearings. i'm sure privately she was thinking something else.

just look at what happened to Gates when he said what he really felt.

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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Do you think Obama and Sotomayor are liars?
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #66
88. i think Obama is lying when he says he is opposed to gay marriage
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. The president didn't change his opinion. He just made sure
to tell Crowley and the department that he didn't intend to malign them.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. So he always thought Crowley was an outstanding officer?
I think he might have changed his mind about Crowley after personally speaking with Gates.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. As I said before, Obama is a polite man.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Don't forget honest.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. He is honest. He said the police behaved stupidly and he didn't take it back.
He said he could have "calibrated" his language differently, but, he didn't take it back.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. He also said Officer Crowley is an outstanding officer. I never said he took back anything.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. We agree on those two points. n/t
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. We agree on much more than that. I always enjoy our discussions.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Heh.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Don't knock it. When's the last time you were invited to the White House for brewskis?
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great article
Thanks
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I must also give kudos to you
for your wonderful thread :)
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. I try my best
Thanks!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Lawrence!
:applause:
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think we should all test this.
We should all go out and put Larry O'Donnell's theory to the test. We should all go out and call a cop the most appropriate or rudest epithet we can think of on the spot, and see how that goes. Of course, since it's Larry's idea then he should go first.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Or you could invite an asshole cop into your home and see how long it takes
to get arrested.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. by all means, you first
it's your idea, isn't it?

Lead the way, by all means.....
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. Perfect summary of why this was "stupid behavior" and why Obama and Gates are right
And even in being right, they're willing to bite the bullet to shut the moronic "shiny object" media up and "have a beer" so that all the white male right-wing idiots in this country can say "hey, that was cool - I'd have done the same".

:eyes:

This country is more fucked up than I ever thought it was - those who support this "don't mess with the cops, especially if you're black" mentality - even here on DU!! - are not fit to judge another human being's actions. For shame. For shame!
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Recommend
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. Junior High School behavior at work. That's all. nt
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 05:51 PM by rocktivity


Or I'll get my revenge by luring you outdoors where I can bust you for disorderly conduct!

The minute Gates displayed his ID and proof of home address, Sgt. Jim Crow-ley should have thanked Gates for his cooperation and left--after all, there are REAL criminal out there. The hell with all of this trying to turn it into some kind of racial guilt trip. Thanks, Laurence!

x(
rocktivity

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
23. Recommended.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thank you, Lawrence O' Donnell Jr!
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 06:07 PM by Cha
That's what so many of us have been trying to get through some people's heads. ya:think:


Side note.. "Ten Questions for Gates" from Time mag..

<snip>>

"What were you doing the night Barack Obama was elected? Rick Klein, LA CROSSE, WIS."

"I was at my friend's house in Cambridge, Mass. Everyone kept saying, "He's winning, he's winning," but I wouldn't let myself celebrate until Wolf Blitzer said he was President. Then I cheered, and we all cried and drank about another gallon of champagne."

I couldn't even watch..I was too freaked out:bounce: My son had to call me from Kaua'i and tell me he ran out of gas and was picked up by a guy who asked him .."How does it feel to have a Black man as President?" Turns out he just happened to be a mccain supporter.

I still didn't trust it and asked my son to call me back when he got home with more verification. I was numb with happiness.

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godai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. I thought this was all over with. Not yet, it seems n/t
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. HAHAHAHAHA
haven't been here long, have you? :rofl:
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godai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Didn't beer at the WH solve everything?? n/t
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. Playing psychic tonight I see
Is it going to rain tomorrow?
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godai Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
72. Ohh...So after the WH Beerfest, everything will be fine? n/t
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. lol - I don't know
I think Obama is pretty good at this sort of thing though - so it's likely to fade away after that.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. Cops are supposed to be able to assess situations
Forty years ago, I was living on Ware Street in Cambridge (yes, the same Ware Street), and a neighbor called the police to complain that the party my roommate and I were hosting was too noisy. So the cops showed up, saw a bunch of people sedately drinking mulled cider and stringing popcorn and cranberries to decorate a Christmas tree, kind of shrugged and asked us to turn the stereo off by 11, and left.

A few years after that, my husband and I were having a loud argument in a parking lot. A couple of cops stopped and asked if there was a problem, we told them no we were just yelling at each other, and they left.

Police are supposed to be able to assess situations like that. They're supposed to know when things are out of hand and when they aren't. And I swear to you that no burglar apprehended in the act is going to stand on his dignity and start cursing out the cops for treating him as an intruder. It's just never going to happen, and the police know this better than any one.

No number of phone calls from neighbors or suitcases on the porch are going to change that. The police officer *knew* with absolutely certainty that Gates was the legitimate resident before he asked him to step outside and arrested him. And there is no grounds for arguing that he still had to treat Gates at that point as a potential suspect.

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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
54. I would have arrested you....
.... for drinking mulled cider and stringing popcorn. In 1969 you were supposed to be tripping and being groovy, not posing for a Christmas card.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #54
91. It *was* groovy -- you'd have to have been there at the time
Rejection of high-priced, over-commercialized, boozed-up holiday celebrations was *very* 1969. Those popcorn-and-cranberry garlands were a statement of authenticity and ecological sensitivity.

So there. :P

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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. Yeah, I get it. We did something similar one year.
We had just moved into a somewhat rundown (essential to the youth experience) and chilly third floor walk up. We were decorating for Christmas and singing Our House (CSNY). Once it was all decorated, had a few friends over and played Our House (Madness) for a very nice not-inebriated dinner.

Of course, New Years was another matter.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
44. We seem to have lots of folks working hard to explain why "that wouldn't happen to me."
Strangely, some seem to think it's not due to the color of their skin but their "wisdom" in how they behave towards cops. Go figure. :shrug:
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. .
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #51
76. LOL
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
85. crowley is a criminal, needs to handcuffed,
arrested, taken to jail, and beaten senseless!
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keep_it_real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Are you being inflamatory?
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. But instead he gets to have a beer with Obama at the White House.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #87
90. That's what one does in a civil society.....
instead of handcuffing folks so that you can show them whose boss while wearing a gun.
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USA_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-27-09 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #85
102. Ruby Ridge, Davidians, Gordon Kahl, Eric Rudolph ....
When these loonies refused to obey the cops and feds, the far right lunatics defended them and said they had every right to use weapons under the Second Amendment to fight off the authorities. Isn't strange (no, not really) when the victims are black such as Prof Gates or the move Cult how these far right radicals defend the cops and refuse to defend the Constitutional rights of the victims?
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
89. Ha ha. People do love to jump in with the mob. Oh the outrage! nt
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