I will post some links to what Black folk are writing about Gates...

So you guys can see that maybe DU has blown this out of proportion...and maybe take a step back and ask yourself...why am I more angry than the black community on this subject? We're being calm and rational while DU is being a freakout session at a crack convention.

http://www.bvblackspin.com/2009/07/21/henry-louis-gates-arrested/

I don't like our nation's criminal justice system. Every statistic reeks of racism, and the prison system has become the slavery of the new millennium. Police have regularly and historically abused their power, and the victims have often times been black men. But while I do not like the criminal justice system and know that cops can be quite abusive, l still try to keep balance in my judgment.

After hearing about the case of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates (whose charges have been dropped), I want to know what happened. I didn't jump out of my seat to scream "racist pigs!" Nor did I presume that Gates did something wrong. I have seen men accused of crimes they didn't commit, and I have seen black leaders use systematic racism as a channel to excuse themselves from some the most egregious behavior imaginable.

In the case of Dr. Gates, I simply want to know the facts.

...snip...

s the son of a police officer, I am not one to automatically assume that the cops in this case were being racist or out of control in their behavior. But I also know that police can be corrupt and abusive with their power. In this particular case, it only seems clear that, as Dr. Gates allegedly told the officer, he didn't "know who he was messing with."

There is an unwrittten rule that members of privilege in our society receive a different brand of justice than the rest of us. They can often wiggle out of situations after making bad choices, and they are not scrutinized in the same way (take a hint Duke Lacrosse players). By making reference to his status as a distinguished scholar and verbally abusing the officer, Gates may have felt that he was being stripped of his rights to be a privileged Harvard professor. But what is unclear is whether Gates said anything to the officer, or if the officer was abusing his own power by arresting Gates to "teach him a lesson."

Keep reading people it is a good article. I will add more to this thread. Take a breath and check yourself against the pulse of the community.

quite trying to dictate what people can and cant discuss.

If you don't mind. Or do you not want to read it?

Really? So you are saying that the things you will be posting represent the POV of all black people on this? I would posit that what you will be posting represents the POV of the black person who wrote said piece.

It seems to me that you are making a bit of an assumption, too, regarding the posts on DU. I've read a number of them, and there are all sorts of viewpoints on what happened with Prof. Gats, written by different people of different races.

I will certainly be interested in reading some of the links you provide, but if I may, I think you are coming rather close to what you accuse others of doing: painting a particular group of people with a broad brush.

All I did was point out that in your OP, you said "black folk", as if blacks en mass think exactly the same about this issue, and the only ones up in arms are white people.

Why is pointing that out wrong? Because I'm not black folk, I can't point something out that I thought was an over-generalization?

Oh, and I don't care for fries, but thanks for asking.

I like you may have been on the first day was like...Oh shit, It's all Gates and the cop is gonna get dissed etc....

Then I read on and got more info, talked to some family and friends and we were like...he pulled that "do you know who I am" shit and things got out of hand.

My father has had people call the cops on him when he was on his property. There were no cuffs, and the cops offered an appology.

Gates screwed up. It doesn't mean he deserved to be arrested though. IF you're black you know how to handle the cops. Gates just got a wakeup call about what regular black folk have to deal with and he blew his stack. He doesn't deserve hoopla over that. You know who deserves HOOPLA...Bruthas who get their asses kicked. Bruthas who can't get a lawyer to do their dayum job and make them plea guilty.

I got angry that there are more deserving black men who deserve this attention who are in real dire straits where the cops and race are concerned. The only reason this is in the news is because Gates knows Clinton and Obama. While that may bring light to the issue, all this rage without focus on solving the problem is gonna get another brother killed. It could be my brother. My father. My unkles.

That is the problem. That scares me.

Peace.

Both parties got carried away. That was my assumption, but because it was an assumption, I refused to form an opinion right away.

I think it was a case of "my penis is bigger than yours" ... I am an intellectual, I have a degree, I'm part of the intellectual society... I'm a cop, I have a gun, I have a badge, I have handcuffs..."

What people here made of it was pretty ugly. And I was sorely pissed at Obama for sticking his nose in it. He only knew one side of the story too. Now he's had to spend valuable time that was best used on health-care and a million other issues, to smooth this out.

I'm a white lady. But clearly that didn't mean a damn thing. Hallelujah!!!

Had Gates just been plain old citizen Gates, most likely his story would not have gotten the attention it has, and that's just wrong. And, as you point out, a black man who isn't friends with Obama most likely would have gotten his ass kicked, or worse.

I also agree that if this story just stops with Gates, the vast part of the issue of racism (and classism) will remain buried, You're right; the lack of focus on solving the problem isn't there. The focus of a lot of the attention has been specifically on Gates, and not on the wider issue of what happens to blacks who aren't professors who know Clinton and Obama. It hasn't been on the ass kicking that blacks get every day in this country. It hasn't been on the institutionalized racism in this country. It's only been on one incident with one person. Leaving it there will only leave the problem buried from the collective mind of this country.

I was serious, by the way, about reading the things that you post. Furthering my own understanding of this is something that is important to me.

Peace back to you.

It's entirely possible that Gates mouthed off to the cops. However, not being polite to the police, especially in your own damn house, is not illegal. Crowley should have left and kept it moving. The problem lies in the number of people who say "well Gates shouldn't have been arrested but..." when they should have stopped at "Gates shouldn't have been arrested." It sounds like they're blaming Gates for Crowely's inability to behave professionally. If someone as prominent as Prof. Gates is getting the "the uppity negro had it coming" line in order to absolve the officer from his unprofessional behavior, what do you think these same people are going to say about your brother, your uncle and your father?

That for me is the problem. It's always been about abuse of authority. The excuse of "well he pushed Crowley to it by no being sufficiently deferential" just doesn't wash. Is Crowley or is he not a professional? Who behaved unprofessionally?

My uncles, my cousins and nephew have to deal with the cops as well and if Gates is getting the "uppity negro" treatment then they would too and that scares the shit out of me.

I had people on DU kinda call me out and say that I wasn't sensitive to the GLBT community.

That shit hurt like hell because I consider myself a part of the GLBT community. I got angry. HOT ASS MESS ANGRY.

So I can see how the cop was like what? You callin me a racist? I was picked by a black man to do this diversity thing and you callin me a racist....

the cop got mad too and I hate to say it maybe the cop had a right to be angry...he just didn't have a right to let it take over his tiny brain and arrest a guy for being loud @ his own crib.

That is why A. I don't think the cop was racist. and B. I think they both lost their dang minds.

YES. You are right the cop with the gun has the professional burden but Gates also needed to be the professional black man he is. No need to get all loud there. Call your lawyer and get with the chief of police and do it the RIGHT way. That is what I'm thinkin Gates should have done. He could have made the cops look so bad and helped the black community along the way.

and oddly enough, despite his contention to the contrary there was no evidence of anyone yelling in the background. It looks as though the more info comes out the more guilty of being a prick under color of authority Officer Crowley appears to be.

How quick you were to 'correct' her and assume the worst.......

I wasn't assuming. I was reading what she wrote.

Did you really read what I posted in response, or not?

was that it's your job to correct her. Not much different, IMO, than Senator Lindsey Grahm lecturing Sonia Sotomayor on her 'temperament' problems and her ability to judge impartially.

I pointed something out, and now I'm Lindsay Graham?

I never said it was my job. I posted my OPINION on what she said. Okay? Or is having an opinion around here not okay any more?

your original post reads a bit like a lecture to me. You aren't stating opinions, but criticizing xultar in all three of the paragraphs. Your have the right to do so, of course.

Opinions often are, for better or worse, quite strong.

:shrug:

Do people say Gay folk? Women folk? Hispanic folk?

Sounds strange.

My maternal grand "folk" were country "folk" and it is considered a homey, close to the heart way of referring to human beings.

Not all people use folk. Some do. Some Latinos use the term "Raza" to refer to people of Latin American ancestry, but not everyone does that either. It depends what you were brought up to say. Brian Copeland, a Black comedian and talk show host from the Bay Area uses the term "folk" regularly when he talks about Black people.

black folk, rich folk. They also say black folks, gay folks, white folks, etc. etc.

We also say things like "those boys think they're something" when we're referring to grown men who are in their fifties and sixties and who are dancing, or showing off, or having a good time, or whatever. We even call them "guys" and "dudes" and "bros".

And we call women "girls" and "gals" and "ladies" and "women" and other affectionate titles.

You may be leading a sheltered life and not even know it. :rofl:

And that system led Cambridge, MA, cops to act stupidly in re Gates.

One example does not represent the pulse of 'black America.'

There are many people here who feel they know what's best and they know how we should think.

It's funny to watch.

starting from the first day....and then things cooled off after Obama's presser. When I finally had a chance to sit down with mom and pops and we had a rational discussion.

Of course we were angry. But we were more angry that this guy, is hogging all the press when in general real issues with black folk getting their asses kicked on a daily basis aren't addressed.

Here we are hemming and hawwing over this upper class brother screaming racism when another brother really got his ass kicked.

If Gates wasn't a Harvard Prof his ass would still be in jail and people wouldn't be sayin shit. If Gates didn't know Clinton or Obama his ass would have been under the jail.

Straight the fuck up.

that's the problem. Racism and Socioeconomic CLASS.

This is his latest blog posting:

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/denial-a-river-wider-than-charles-racism-and-implicit-bias-cambridge

I'm seeing in the discussions I'm having with my friends and family that this has more to do with CLASS than race.

Check out this article

http://www.examiner.com/x-15591-Jacksonville-African-American-Culture-Examiner~y2009m7d27-The-Invisible-Dialogue-on-Social-Class-in-the-Black-Community

Obviously Gates is not a typical professor, but Crowley's on record saying he didn't know who he was or that he was "educated."

Every time there's an obvious instance of racism there's always some dick say "it's classism not racism."

but Crowley's on record saying he didn't know who he was or that he was "educated."

Then it is about class.

Really???

Upper middle class.

insulting AND inaccurate to Dr. Gates.

I specifically said Gates was not an average professor.

Try to keep up, kid.

Well under $250k...

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Professor,_Postsecondary_%2F_Higher_Education/Salary

but you are guilding the lily there, bud.

And HL Gates sends his greetings from Martha's Vineyard, where I am due to summer next weekend!:rofl:

Really? You know a lot of cops pulling in more than $170,000 per year?

http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2006/04/24/daily3.html

Many professors don't make close to that.

Just like many cops don't make $240,000 per year, even though some do.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/02/22/police_take_home_citys_biggest_paychecks/

These two are not even in the same general stratosphere.

It's not his car, not his driver... the neighbor had never seen the driver, didn't recognize him, and called the cops.

I know a lot of people who write books who don't make that much... I think a lot of assumptions are being made.

Professors don't make that much money... this was just updated last week:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Professor,_Postsecondary_%2F_Higher_Education/Salary

They aren't typically cheap, as they do a lot more than just drive.

He has a home in Cambridge. Those aren't typically cheap.

He's written numerous best-selling type books. Those bring in a lot of money.

Really, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that he's either pulling in a lot more than $250k/year or that he was independently wealthy anyway, in which case the point of class stratification remains valid.

The neighbor didn't recognize... was part of the confusion. I know a lot of people who write books and none of them pull in that amount of money. What's a "best selling type" book anyway?

I hire cars and drivers all the time. Not that big a deal.

I think a lot of assumptions are being made all across this story.

Read more.

I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, but damn.

:D

I am concerned with the civil and racial aspects of the matter, as well as the class ones, but Gates arrest seems to be a part of a national problem involving racial profiling and the persecution of African-Americans. Look at our prison population. Simply as a citizen, I am not comfortable with fellow Americans being denied their rights.

I'M JUST KIDDING!

I agree with what you have posted, and the quotes you have listed. It all sounds pretty reasonable. My black friends are saying the same things you are saying.

I think a lot of people on this board are wearing their hats too tight.

A lot of rational people continue to sit back, giggle at the insanity, and offer the hyperventilators a paper sack.

critique.

I'm happy you are talking to your friends about this issue. I thought last Thursday that I was crazy, so many people on DU had me thinking that I was a racist.

That was...until I got home and phoned mom and pops...when we talked over the weekend I was like ...o.k. reality.

I told my mom what DUers were saying and she cracked up! :rofl:

We then read the body of the OP to find that the comments being quoted match perfectly with comments posted many times at DU.

xultar, perhaps you are reacting to a specific kind of reaction, but the reactions posted at DU have been all over the map:

• Crowley is a racist pig, and he arrived looking to bust some heads.
  
• Crowley is a wonder cop who was horribly provoked by Gates's tirade.
  
• Those who have no idea what motivated Crowley, only that he should have left when identity was established.
  
• Gates should be thanking his lucky stars he isn't in Gitmo
  
• Gates is a cracker-hating attention whore.
  
• Gates was channeling his slave ancestors, and Crowley should consider himself lucky that Gates didn't get violent.
  
• Gates was completely out of control.
  
• Considering the circumstances, Gates was restrained.
  
• Both men were bouncing off the wall and should be spanked soundly and put to dinner without supper.

Considering that you have embraced at least three of these notions -- two of which appear to be highly contradictory -- could you please tell us specifically what it is about us misguided white folk that you find so repugnant?

are being Unrecced as fast as you can post them, I'd say a lot of members don't want to hear any other viewpoint than the 'approved' one.

Why is it so hard for some white liberals to accept that other ethnic groups don't share their opinions routinely? I've seen it posted right here that a black person who votes conservatively "doesn't know what's good for him/her" or "is voting against his/her best interests". How condescending, patronizing and racist!

I don't post to get on the greatest page.

I post to talk with people. Have a chit chat as it were.

I hope you don't think I give a shit about being recommended.

ROFL.

I better post that! So people know. I don't think I've said it enough!

then I came to realize that anyone (who makes less than $250K a year) "who votes conservatively "doesn't know what's good for him/her" and "is voting against his/her best interests""!

A lot of people despise the heavy handedness that we've experienced while minding our own business. We've witnessed others getting pounded, maced, tased, cuffed, and dragged away for doing nothing.

We add those observations with the idea of what it might be like to be singled out only for one's appearance, and the button is pushed.

I'm not really sure what it is that has sent xultar into orbit these past 48 hours, and I'd really like to know. Considering the spectrum of emotions being exhibited at DU on the Gates matter, it's hard to know what part is the "overreaction". I'm also fascinated that she thinks that "Black folk" have it altogether considering that some are doubting that she could really be black because she is totally misrepresenting their feelings.

It's complicated, and it's getting trivialized here.

:rofl:

Why the FUCK is it that out of all my comments on this thread, you chose that to snipe on?

I get the distinct impression that you are not quite sincere in all this. I'd love to be proven wrong.

I'm not angry...Think of me as a black woman version of Louis Black.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6161857&mesg_id=6162325

I'm not reticent about my skin color or my sex but there are a great many on DU who I have not a clue as to their sex, skin color or age for that matter.

lmao

Someone just let me know that people are unreccomending my threads...as if I really gave a rats about whether or not I get on the greatest page. :rofl:

I post to have a chit chat. I post to TALK with people. HAve fun. Stir the pot. Give a POV not seen.

Not to get on the greatest page.

I'D UNREC MY ON THREADS IF I COULD...Since I can't please do it for me! <\h3>

kbai

People who are the 'creme de la creme' of society often look down and treat as less-than those with working class or serfdom jobs. And I read today that Gates was commenting on the neighbor who called in the complaint and said he was at Martha's Vineyard. Oy vey! What a tough life...

Gates IS privileged and was still treated like shit.

She seems to be reliving the Duke lacross incident ("...There is an unwrittten rule that members of privilege in our society receive a different brand of justice than the rest of us. They can often wiggle out of situations after making bad choices, and they are not scrutinized in the same way (take a hint Duke Lacrosse players...)") as if the insane woman who brought those charges didn't get her legal opportunities and as if the Duke kids' lives weren't totally derailed.

xultar is out to raise a lot of shit with her bonkers rants, and she's doing it quite well. She contradicts herself in any given paragraph, and when asked to explain, she explodes. She's getting to be tiresome. One more dose of unwarranted shit from her, and I'll be tuning her out permanently.

I think this 'ignore' feature is very anti-progressive and would never use it. As for your comments, I believe with all my heart that skin color these days is trumped by class. When I saw Diane Sawyer's piece about Appalachia's poor Whites, it could have been the inner city. Some of us live in places where we never come in contact with poor Whites so it's easier to believe that they ALL have it made. Not so...

"Live and learn from fools and from sages" is a rock and roll saying that I take to heart. I used ignore during the primaries, and later found that most of those I ignored were kicked out anyway.

I like to think I have a lot more self-control than to need ignore, and the wealth to be gained from stupidity is greater than most would think. ;)

:rofl: :headbang:

In the rock, and in the roll!

Glad to put you back in the positive.

I think you're being attacked for no good reason here, but when did anyone need a good reason to attack on DU?

Next time get it right....

tee hee hee

I ALWAYS get it wrong!

I've had enough. I won't pollute my computer any further with your unhinged rage.

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6161771

:hi:

What happens to them.

Gates is lucky he gets the media. HE gets the attention. But what about my dad?

If this had happened almost anywhere else, and to almost any other black man, this would have never got the attention it has so far.

Totally unfair, as this shit happens ALL THE TIME!!!

Couldn't it happen to Ward Connerly just once though???

:evilgrin:

Does that make me a bad person???

:spank:

:hi:

I caught so much hell last week for saying things like "I don't know enough yet to form an opinion, and neither do you" and "there are usually three sides to every story" it's unreal.

I feel validated. Thanks for this.

competing than race as well.

Not that racism is going away anytime soon, but I'm seeing a lot more classism lately. Confusing it with racism is pretty sad when you think about it.

The poor are being kept down, and the middle class is being made poor. If we could get all people of all colors to unite against classism, well, it boggles the mind how much we could accomplish! A rising tide floats all boats... and it doesn't matter what color the boat is.

What idiots.

I think when it comes down to it, poor Republicans would still rather not see themselves lumped in with "those people", if you catch my drift. That, and the religion thing, which also lends itself disproportionately to the poor as well.

a rats ass about them is the most confusing thing I've ever encountered.

When all things are equal then fine. But now...I don't get that ignorance.

Then again, they don't call it "ignorance" because it makes logical sense, you know?

I see McCain*Palin stickers, and W'04, on some of the crappiest cars around, in the most opressed neighborhoods, and being driven by the most hopeless looking people. My only guess is that these knuckle-draggers actually think they are going to be rich someday... rich enough that the GOP will look out for their millions. Others are gun enthusiasts who think that Democrats are going to take their guns away... or anti-choicers who think the world is going to be aborted if the Dems rule.

None of them are smart enough to pick up on the pattern of all those issues being trotted out every election cycle, or like now, when the thought of a black man in the white house is just too much for their pea brains to handle. None of these issues are going to change. The GOP needs them to stay alive so they can manipulate the dumbass masses with them.

we get it.

prescribing for me how I should feel about this incident.

And I'll honestly tell you, it made me more mad than I even knew I can get any more.

But I can agree with you totally about the role class played in this, too.

got the MSM and all the white liberal rage because he knew Obama.

When this shit happened to my dad where was the rage. My dad, was just makin sure his ass didn't get shot.
That is what most bruthas have to do. I think Gates got a wakeup call that reminded him of what other black men have to go though in america.

But remember, Skip Gates also probably had jet lag from hell from coming home from China so, he wasn't exactly at the top of his game when this little shit came into his house.

I'd have mouthed off to anyone just from the pain of it. Dr. Gates was a sitting duck this time, imho. If he were the kind of fool who talked back to armed men, we'd know that about him by now. :shrug:

He was certainly naive in his thinking that he could spout off to a cop and get away with it. Hell, I live in Los Angeles, and I'll tell you what, no one of ANY color spouts off to a freaking cop here! If they do, they are just plain asking for whatever they get. It's wrong, hella wrong, that anyone should have to bow to them, but that isn't something that should be argued late at night when you are trying to break into a house, even if it's your own! The best way to deal with bad cops is to do what they say, be very observant, then go through proper channels after the fact.

Ugh... what a world.

home should concern us all, no matter how indignant he acted.

with a gun...

That part I just can't get over.

Yes, I know Gates is right but man I can't think of any7 situation where I'd go off on a cop...I'm sorry, I just have a fear of being shot. I don't get why more people don't have it.

Let me walk away, I'll be @ the Chief's desk the next morning with lawyers and reporters. Gates could have played it so much better than that...and made the cops look like asses...

but he didn't I think it was his wakeup call of being treated like a normal black man, not like the esteemed black man he was used to being treated like in his bubble @ harvard.

Did he admit to going 'off on a cop'?

I would be interested in seeing that link, if anyone has that, but even if he did, like you, and others have said, he should NOT have been arrested for it.

I, for one, am very glad this particular incident has involved prominent folks as it will at least raise awareness of this all too common issue nowadays and perhaps bring some changes :fingers-crossed:

Thanks for the OP and the links, very interesting reading :toast:

Radical...

:evilgrin:

:hi:

How do we know all those people are black?

Just because they say they are?

It's something one would have to be highly educated to fake. It's the difference between how you talk to your mother and your boss. It's much harder to "hear" in this medium, but it can be done.

Might as well have said, "I'm going to post some links to what the families of cops are saying about Gates."

I thought it was a very fair article.

Absolutely disagree.



Again, totally disagree. Gates may well be an asshole! But he's well within his rights to act that way in his own home. Yes, we never would have heard about this story if it was Joe UAW assembly line worker, and Gates clearly reacted more to the class dimension -- "how could they do this to ME? Harvard Professor!?". But that doesn't make Gates wrong and it doesn't make the cop right!

Yes, this happens every day and the only reason it's a story is that Gates knows Obama. But in that sense isn't it a good thing he acted the way he did? Isn't it a good thing that he acted like an entitled ivy league asshole rather than accepting that this is just the way things are for black men in America?

So much.

He uses the Duke University team incident as an example of an incident wherein the "elitist" students were treated with kid gloves. When in fact, they ended up being wrongfully accused and able to sue the police, but only after their lives were made hellish and their reputations were ruined.

Sid