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Judges won’t hear appeal on Commandments sign: County lost lawsuit over monument on courthouse lawn

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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 10:31 PM
Original message
Judges won’t hear appeal on Commandments sign: County lost lawsuit over monument on courthouse lawn

From left, Haskell County District 2 Commissioner Sam Cole, District 1 Commissioner Kenny Short and District 3 Commissioner Henry Few are shown in 2005 by a Ten Commandments monument on the Haskell County Courthouse lawn. Photo By David Zizzo, The Oklahoman archive


DENVER — A hotly divided appeals court Thursday narrowly let stand last month’s decision against a Ten Commandments monument on the Haskell County Courthouse lawn.

Six of the 12 judges of the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals wanted to reconsider the June 8 decision of a three-judge panel of the court. Four of the judges said the decision conflicts with U.S. Supreme Court precedent. The six judges were one short of the required majority to have all 12 judges of the court reconsider the earlier ruling.

The three-judge panel of the Denver-based court earlier concluded the primary effect of the 8-foot monument in Stigler is to endorse religion, thus violating the Constitution.

"The court’s decision in this case perpetuates a regrettable misapprehension: that recognition of the role of religion in this country’s founding, history, traditions and laws is to be strictly excluded from the civic sphere,” three judges said in one of two dissenting opinions that totaled 33 pages.

The six judges who voted not to reconsider the decision did not give reasons. Included was the court’s chief judge, Robert Henry of Oklahoma City.

http://photos.newsok.com/2/showimage/630128/gallery_photo



Circuit en banc order:
http://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/06/06-7098.pdf

Panel Ruling (written by the three Republican appointees):
http://www.telladf.org/UserDocs/HaskellCountyOpinion.pdf

Though don't go thinking that the party of the nominating President is meaningless...



Nominating party analysis:

HENRY, BRISCOE, LUCERO, MURPHY, HARTZ and HOLMES denied rehearing en banc.

Henry, Robert Harlan - Nominated by William J. Clinton on February 9, 1994.
Briscoe, Mary Beck - Nominated by William J. Clinton on March 14, 1995.
Lucero, Carlos F. - Nominated by William J. Clinton on March 23, 1995.
Murphy, Michael R. - Nominated by William J. Clinton on July 25, 1995.
Hartz, Harris L. - Nominated by George W. Bush on September 4, 2001.
Holmes, Jerome A. - Nominated by George W. Bush on May 4, 2006.

TACHA, KELLY, O’BRIEN, McCONNELL, TYMKOVICH, and GORSUCH would grant rehearing en banc.

Tacha, Deanell Reece - Nominated by Ronald Reagan on October 31, 1985.
Kelly, Paul Joseph Jr. - Nominated by George H.W. Bush on November 19, 1991.
O`Brien, Terrence L. - Nominated by George W. Bush on September 4, 2001.
McConnell, Michael W. - Nominated by George W. Bush on September 4, 2001.
Tymkovich, Timothy M. - Nominated by George W. Bush on January 7, 2003.
Gorsuch, Neil M. - Nominated by George W. Bush on May 10, 2006.





"Whenever we remove a brick from the wall that was designed to separate religion and government, we increase the risk of religious strife and weaken the foundations of our democracy" ~Justice John Paul Stevens
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting. What do DUers think?
Should "recognition of the role of religion in this country’s founding, history, traditions and laws (is to) be strictly excluded from the civic sphere?"
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Of course not but using the machinery of the state to promote a viewpoint on religion should be
No one has a problem with "recognition."
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. Exactly.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I don't see anything on that monument
that addresses "the role of religion."

I see a monument "to" religion.
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I have no problem with Commissioner Sam discussing the 10 commandments at the court house or having
a display in his office. What purpose is there to "recognize" the 10 commandments in a large statue publicaly displayed on the lawn of the Court House? Answer: Using the State to shove religion down the public's throat.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. The proper place for that is in an American history class..
I have zero problem with public high school American history classes covering the role of religion in this country's founding, history, traditions and laws.. As long as it is as unbiased and honest assessment as is reasonably possible, including both the positive and the negative influences of religion in America.

But that is not what the people who wish to put religious monuments on public spaces wish and I think most of us know that.

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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Accept for activist judges appointed by Republican Presidents
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Except. n/t
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Hear!! Hear!! Well-stated, Fumesucker. The day that they make "A People's History of the
United States" a textbook in our public schools is the day I'll believe that the role of religion is being properly explained.

Never gonna happen.
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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Keep Religion out of it
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Ah thinks if yer gonna pay fer a graven stone, youghta hire a carver who can spell
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. From the picture....
...it was not part of a display of the role of religion in the legal process. It's a "Hey, this is a CHRISTIAN courthouse, fuckers!!!!!" display.

Besides, only two of the commandments deal with secular law... the rest is religious. How to get into Heaven, which is not something I want the courts deciding!
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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Personally, I dislike any attempted merging between church and state...
... even if it only comes in monument form. What I really hate though is when such merging is done in bad faith (as I think it was done in this case). When the purpose of putting up a memorial is not to genuinely honor religion, but to politically gain from the uproar caused by the placing of such a monument or to simply anger people that disagree it is done in bad faith. The people that place these things will never admit to doing so but I would say that is the reasoning for about 95% of the 10 commandment monuments our there in the public sphere.

The people who placed this monument didn't even try to attempt to follow the court rulings on the subject.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. "We're in charge here."
That is the only thing those monuments are ever meant to express.
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. That was an illusion in this case
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. If it was that important to them
the dimwits should've looked up how to spell "adultery" before engraving it in stone.
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gopiscrap Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
13. Fucking Christofacits
THey outa crucify all of them if they like Jesus so much!!!!!
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
17. good. i hope that sign is down by now. n/t
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
19. If these 3 gentlemen would just ring me up I have an alternative suggestion
for just where the monument could be placed.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
20. These ass hats seldom have the Ten Commandments in their own goddamn churches!
The next time you hear one of them talking about how the Ten Commandments should be in courthouses and schools, ask them if they have the Ten Commandments displayed in their church prominently. Very few churches do. But they do love to piss and moan about having those choice words of nomadic goat herders from 3300 years ago plastered in public places.

It's just one more example of the most hypocritical group in America whining because they can't have their way about everything.
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Good point, or their own yards
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