A 35 year old alcoholic, sexaholic, suicidal, abused mother asked me for legal advice today...

She's a coworker. She is constantly talking about sex. And when she isn't talking about sex, she is talking about alcohol or popping pills or attempting suicide. At first I thought she was just some creepy chick because she was constantly trying to get me to drink with her. Apparently she is notorious for seeking out "younger guys"... None the less, I kept a cordial relationship because I feel bad for people with such a destructive lifestyle. Plus I can relate to the depression and suicidal tendencies.


Keep in mind, I have no experience in legal matters. I haven't even been "legal" for two years yet. Apparently she overheard me discussing politics a few times at work and assumed I was some sort of attorney. I explained to her that I could provide very little help in legal matters, but would try my best.

Her first attempt at explaining herself went something like this:

"I know this guy who is an illegal alien, who was charged with domestic violence. Will he be deported if he goes to court? And would it be better if he just fled the country now?"


I thought about it for a second and explained that, if he is found guilty, he would likely serve time in the US system and then most likely be deported upon his release. But I emphasized the fact that I can only guess at what would actually take place. So I then went on to explain that if he fled the country, they would probably put out an arrest warrant within the United States and any future attempts at going for legal citizenship in the US would be very challenging for him with such a record.

But I was becoming increasingly interested in why she was asking these questions? Who the hell was this guy she is talking about?

A little later, she said that she had another question for me.

"So lets say that this guy was wrongly arrested for domestic violence. The 'victim' was very drunk at the time and there may have been a fight where both were responsible."

I was starting to connect the dots. I asked what happened during the fight that caused the police to come out and arrest the guy for domestic violence.

"Well, during the fight, he had tied the other person up with wire and there were marks. So the police arrested him. But really, the two people were just fighting. And the 'victim' feels bad that the guy was arrested. She wants to drop the charges. And without other witnesses, wouldn't the guy get off the hook?"

That doesn't sound like the other person put up much of a fight. I explained that the victim can drop the charges but that the state can press charges independently. Especially if there is clear physical evidence of the crime. But I again emphasized that this advice is coming from a 19 year old undergrad. The odds of me actually having accurate legal advice were low. I told her that the "victim" should really seek legal advice from a lawyer. So I went back to work because this entire situation was becoming a little too weird for me.

A little later, she cornered me in the break area.

She started ranting. She was the woman and her boyfriend was the guy arrested for domestic violence. Apparently she was really drunk that night, like every other night, and they "got in a fight." She doesn't want to drop the charges because she's scared that the court will find out she was drunk that night and take away...

her kid. She has a kid. In fact, she has 4 kids. All from different fathers. All but one have been taken away by CPS and placed in the custody of someone else.

She explained to me that the three kids were taken away because she got in a car accident, while intoxicated, with a kid in the car. She did time for child endangerment and obviously the DUI.

I told her that she needs to get help and that it doesn't sound like there is a safe environment for her one remaining kid. I explained that, in all honesty, it doesn't sound like she deserves the kid and if she actually cared about it, she would give up custody until she got straight.

I also told her that it sounds like she was physically abused by her boyfriend and that, whatever happened that night, it was not a fair fight.


She told me that she understands all that. She said that she's been in treatment programs before but they don't help. She said that she likes drinking and doesn't want to stop.

I told her that she will either eventually lose custody of the kid or something bad is going to happen and that she had the ability to control the outcome.



I swear, I don't know why disturbed individuals flock to me, but it makes my life very interesting. I also don't know why I posted this, but the story was so messed up that I felt like someone needed to hear about it. More than likely, this mom is going to do nothing to change the situation.

I'm thinking about contacting CPS on my own. But I'm not sure if that is a good idea.

:puke:

Don't call CPS.

She's an alcoholic, and if you want her to have any chance of getting right, she has to get sober first. Otherwise, you're just pissing into the wind.

Which is why I was thinking about contacting CPS.

We don't know what the situation is with the child, but it may love her very much and need her very much. I suggested you point her toward dealing with her alcoholism, and warn her that she'll end up dead, maimed, or in jail, and her child will be taken from her if she doesn't get her act together.

If you know the child is at risk, that's a different matter. If you know the child is being abused physically or sexually, you must report it. If you know the child is watching mom get beat up by the man, you should report it. That's unhealthy for the child.

You may have to call CPS or the police based upon specific knowledge, and don't want to suggest you shouldn't if you do. But I believe everyone is entitled to a chance, and the chance you should give her is to get cleaned up. Her life will be an uncontrollable mess as long as she's in the bottle.

To many times people put off doing this and the child suffers.

The woman will not change unless she wants to and it sure doesn't sound like that is the case.

Then run like hell from that woman. She is clearly messed up and will drag you in on her continuing losing dramas, as long as you let her.

You can't fix her. She's not a relative. She has self-inflicted serious problems. She's an adult who knows she needs to be in rehab. I suspect her whole life has been self-destructive and may continue to be.

I'm sure you have other things you need to focus on in your life. Keep your eye on the ball, and don't let others drag you into their losing situations. You're practically a kid yourself and ill-equipped to help someone with such serious problems. Also, once the boyfriend finds out about you, you could get into danger yourself.

But report to CPS about the child, now that you have information about that. It's a duty. Then do your best to quit having conversations with her about her life. You are there to WORK.

be very careful!



:nuke:

You engage. In fact, judging from this story you over engage to a pretty extreme degree.

Contacting CPS is a big deal. Think it over carefully. And learn how to (kindly) disengage people like this woman.

I tend to get in too deep, and then I have no clue how to back out. I just hate being just another person who doesn't give a shit about peoples problems.

it's just learning how and when to engage that's tricky. Otherwise, you end up with "idiot compassion".

My father is psychotic. I broke off contact with him for a long while. Then I decided to start talking to him again for a few weeks last year. I haven't spoken to him since because I cannot waste anymore of my life on trying to fix him.

Some people are beyond help.

The next time she starts over-sharing her woes with you, come up with a standard non-answer response. Something like, "I have no idea what's best here. You should talk to state legal aid. I think they're listed in the phone book." or "Sorry, no time. I have some work that needs to get done now.".

She knows you're not attorney. How can you be at age 19?! She's more interested in getting some emotional supply from you, as I suspect she's what's often called an "emotional vampire". She wants you to get all sucked into this dysfunctional life she's created for herself so she feels like she has someone on her side. But you cannot give her what she truly needs. No one can.

She is a classic example of why domestic abuse charges are taken out of the hands of the victim. Otherwise, she'd continue to keep that abusive boyfriend around her kids absent legal intervention. I have no doubt the remaining child will be taken away eventually, but frankly that's not a matter you can control nor do you have any direct evidence (beyond the ramblings of the dysfunctional mother) to report to CPS...

Disengage and maintain a solely working relationship with this woman. Also, it may not be a bad idea to give your supervisor a heads up about the conversations. Once she realizes you're not playing her manipulation game, she may soon start making trouble in the workplace for you. People like this will turn on you faster than you can possibly imagine. I've BTDT, but no more....

i had a friend whose boyfriend beat her leaving marks and she refused to do anything about it. The one time I went over there and brought her to my house... i have mentioned this event before. She had blood coming out of her ear!! She has kids. She stayed with me for two weeks where I tried to talk some sense into her about getting out of the situation. She kept blaming herself for provoking the guy. While i will admit she would yell at him frequently... they'd yell at each other, somehow i don't see how that gives him the right to hit her. but it seems somehow that people are willing to put up with almost anything to not be alone.

I did run into her at the park the other day and was surprised to learn that she was moving to live with her family for a year. I hope she does and gets herself together. She used to be so confident... a person I would trust with my daughter who i didn't trust with anyone. But when she got with this guy, it was like she just faded away to this other person.

You can tell these people til you are blue in the face what they should do and what will happen if they don't do it... but for some reason logic and reasoning don't penetrate them until something really bad happens. I thought about calling cps myself but never did. I could have kicked myself for not doing it. I was just so afraid that I wouldn't be able to check on the kids if I did that, and that cps wouldn't do anything.... they never do. (i am very cynical of cps.) But if you are concerned about the children's welfare, perhaps you should bring it up with someone...

I know people who have been remarried and have kids from multiple marriages.

But based on what this woman has said, it only further demonstrates the reckless nature of her lifestyle. What I didn't mention in here is that she also frequently talks to anyone who is within ear shot that she needs to find another guy to get her pregnant so she can have his money.

If she believes child support is the ticket to immense wealth, her math skills are poor at best. But that's not a crime.

but a 35 year old, who has multiple children from multiple non committed relationships, who has substance abuse problems, who cruises young (18-20 yo) men, who is very dependent on the social and legal system, who talks about suicide or otherwise harming themselves, defines a very distinct type of person who more experienced, non chemical dependent, 'normal' men wouldn't go near on a bet. This type of person is a bad dream waiting to happen for a naive young man.

But where are the fathers of the four children referenced by the OP? Three of the kids are in state care, and one is with the mother. If the mom has such severe issues, why aren't the fathers stepping up? I ask this with all seriousness. I was adopted when I was six years old after my biological parents' parental rights were terminated due to a situation very similar to the one described by the OP; my biological father lived nearby, knew the conditions under which I was living for the first six years of my life, but hadn't paid a cent of child support or seen me since I was six months old.

either the mother doesn't know, can't identify, or refuses to identify the father. Or the father fell into the demographic of the OP and views this as himself being victimized by a psycho and doesn't want or isn't mature enough to handle the responsibility or the tie responsibility would demand to the mother. Or the father is in the same position (chemical dependent, unstable, unemployed or unemployable, mental illness, or an abuser not suitable to be a caregiver either). Poor choices on both sides of a child makes the child the victim. Not defending deadbeat dads but these circumstances almost always lead to these circumstances in my experiences.

is a psycho, wouldn't you think he'd want to save the kid from being victimized, too?

One thing's for sure: contraception is not being practed either A) enough, or B) effectively, by either party.

even as a kid, people would tell me way to detailed things in their lives and ask for advice. but being in the business of dealing with absolute strangers everyday; I get a lot of this weird stuff a lot... AND they want advice... Like I know.

looking for sympathy or a shoulder to cry on. They really don't want advise and never heed good advise. Advise to messed up people is almost always a waste of breath.

and they usually figure things out themselves. But I hear the weirdest stuff..

She needs about 4 years of therapy.

run, don't walk. Back in my defense investigation days I worked several cases of young men who became involved with psycho troubled women motivated either by a legitimate belief and desire they could help the woman or because they viewed the woman as an easy mark for casual sex. The results, and reason for my involvement, were bad and in some cases life ruining for the young man. They ranged from pregnancy of the woman to false accusations of abuse to her or her children when the young man lost interest. Do yourself a favor, don't fall into this trap with this woman or any other. Don't contact CPS, if you must do something, tell a family member (who have likely already tried to intervene), a clergy member or physician who knows the family, or mind your own business and distance yourself from her immediately...don't gamble with your emotions, freedom, or your legal record.

Before there is a pile on, the issues of naive young men getting involved with troubled women. and naive young women getting involved with troubled men have, in my experience, equally problematic, yet different consequences. Young women who hook up with troubled or problem men often end up either pregnant, abused or both.

Again, jus' my $.02.

And I will not be working with her again, for the most part. I can't say that I'll miss her frequent morbid observations.

It's safe to say that I would never get involved with anyone like that. I've got enough problems of my own.

I just can't help but feel bad watching someone like that run their life into the ground. It's really kind of pathetic.

I learned that from my first marriage.

Her kid is not your responsibility, but if you let her drag you into her drama, that situation might not remain that way.

Frankly, I'd worry more about what damage she will do to your workplace. If she sucks another co-worker into the toilet that is her life, it will just mean that her problems will affect how you and the other innocent co-workers make a living. I'd find a way to anonymously let HR know what's going on.

about the drunk older woman with depression issues who goes after younger men, but I don't have kids or let anyone mistreat me. You sound like a nice person to take the time with her to listen and respond. God Bless You!

That tells you right there to stop listening to her or trying to help her in any way. She's not ready to be helped. And no, it is NOT mean or cruel to cut her off.

As for the kid, since you haven't witnessed anything (unless you've actually seen the child and noticed signs of abuse or neglect), there's nothing you can really do. However, if you ever do witness something (like going to the parking lot and finding the kid has been left in her car alone while she works), then you can report it without being open to harassment charges.

You are going to see this kind of behavior from people over and over. Mostly if you try to help them it will just complicate your live and they won't change. I don't have much patience for them anymore. I've wasted too much of my time trying to help people who really believe they want help, but what they really want is for someone to enable them to continue doing what they are doing.

Congrats for behaving so thoughtfully and maturely. I've worked in various mental health areas for decades, and from your description that child is at high risk for many kinds of abuse. You will have to use your gut regarding making the CPS call. However, she may now clam up and you might not find out any more, until it is too late. Sorry to sound pessimistic, but I have seen too many parents who "love" their children too much (they are all I have, bla, bla, bla) to allow them to grow up in a safe environment. Even as they circle the drain they won't let go of the child. Sadly, the child often goes down with the parent, one way or another.

They flock to you because you listen.

Having had a very similar experience the best thing you can do for your own sanity is run like hell from this situation and the sooner the better. If you stay in this situation much longer you will be sucked into the swirling vortex of an alcoholic and you will not escape unscathed. Addicts, alcohol or drugs, are masters at manipulation and are ten steps ahead of you at ALL times. You ARE being manipulated you just haven't realized it yet. The deeper you involve yourself emotionally the more dire the outcome. At some point you may find yourself the object of an domestic violence charge, or worse yet, accused of child abuse/sexual molestation. And it is extremely difficult to prove a negative.

Get out while you're emotionally and financially whole.

Time to get comfortable with more functional, healthy people.

She could be the twin of a woman who lived in our old neighborhood. I got to know her because her kid played with the other neighborhood boys. Everytime I met her it became a too much 411 fest. I heard about her myriad other children all sired by drug dealers she was getting freebies from and all, except for this boy, in care of CPS, I heard about her incredibly abusive fundie family of forgiven abusive drunks, I heard about her recent abusive lovers and their crank habits.

She came over one day, visibly speeding and my husband kicked her out because we don't tolerate tweakers. She then proceeded to call him several times like he was her NA buddy or something. We told our kid not to play with hers (he was an unstable abusive bully as well) and eventually the two of them just faded into the neighborhood woodwork.

There is no hope for your person as long as she gets her emotional kicks from trying to draw in others. As for CPS, her 'friends' and family or the child's school will eventually notify CFS about problems. Let them. They know her better and there's no chance you'll get involved with harrassment or stalking charges (people like that are going for soap-opera blowout sometimes).

Good luck with your life, keep listening, but stay uninvolved when you know someone is fucked up.

She does not want any meaningful help and if she did it is unlikely she will get it. She is looking for the next daddy for her and her next child.

This is not a situation you want any part of. You cannot help and she will suck you into her drama and drag you down with her(but it will be the best sex of your life).

Walk away, but don't make her an enemy, she can screw up your life if she views you as "one of them" as well. General indifference of "I can't help you because my girlfriend is the jealous type" are pretty effective.

If you step further into this muck, you'll pay for it. This woman in the OP is the type that looks for people like you to take advantage of. Walk away before you get in deeper.

"I swear, I don't know why disturbed individuals flock to me, but it makes my life very interesting." Maybe you're looking for them, it may be your version of self-destructive behavior. Food for thought.

Think about changing your major1!

:eyes: