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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:40 AM
Original message
McCain to Filibuster Cash for Clunkers
http://washingtonindependent.com/53456/mccain-to-filibuster-cash-for-clunkers

By Mike Lillis 7/31/09 4:47 PM

The opposition to the $2 billion extension of the cash for clunkers program that passed the House today is lining up in the Senate, which is expected to take up the measure next week. The latest critic is Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who told Fox News today that he’ll filibuster the bill.

“I not only wouldn’t vote for the extra two billion, I was opposed to the initial billion,” McCain said.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. i love mccain, the most popular govt. program in years & he's gonna filibuster
he should bring palin along
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Curtland1015 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. What a MAVERICK that guy is!!!
He's just so... mavericky!
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politicallore Donating Member (713 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Awesome
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. Poor McCain. He's not getting enough attention these days.
I just love how he and Kyl, our other AZ douchebag senator, continue to shoot themselves in the foot.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. He's mad because none of his 13 cars qualify.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
33. Well, 13 **is** an unlucky number...
:yoiks:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. uppercrust-prick
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 09:45 AM by fascisthunter
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. That'll be popular. It is money which is from the stimulus, they are just shifting a tiny
amount (relative to the size of the ARRA) to a program which has proved to be wildly popular. Wow, that must really piss John off.
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theoldman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. I have an uneasy feeling about the program.
What will happen to all of the clunkers? Are the dealers going to resell them and make an additional profit?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. So you are with McCain on this one?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
49. I'm with McCain on this one, but likely not for the same reasons.
He probably would prefer to give the money to his cronies. I think the program needs to be reworked, it's too problematic in the medium to long term.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. That's A Good Question - I Would Hope That They Will Be Rendered Useless And Destroyed.......
but I don't know what the ground rules were for the car dealers that took in these cars for the program. How could we find out?
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
47. Wholesaling the clunker cars, intact, for parts, or to recycle the component materials
helps restore several other businesses that are hurting right now. When people hold on to cars that are paid off, or because they can't afford to trade in for a new one, wholesale businesses suffer, junk yards suffer, steel and aluminum recycling businesses suffer, and so on. Getting money to circulate again is what is going to help the economy recover.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. destroying them.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. The clunker's engine is disabled and the other parts are recycled/resold.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. I have to say, I have a problem with that
If you take parts off of a clunker, you are extending the life of the clunker it goes on to. If the goal is to get the fuel inefficient cars off of the road, how does allowing another clunker to drive for a few more years help that out?

Recycling tires is another matter, they're one of the few "universal" parts on a car, as long as the rim size is the same.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. It's still a net loss of one inefficient engine driving on the road.
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 10:49 AM by tridim
And less replacement parts will need to be manufactured for old cars.

It represents energy savings from all sides.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. What hasn't been sold within 30 days is crushed. n/t
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. They're supposed to be scrapped
I would imagine that some items from them can be recycled, such as tires that still have some life on them. But if I had a clunker to trade in, I'd grab four bald ones from the junkyard, and sell any good ones on Craigslist before I took it in.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. To your and my Teanage Grandsons
:banghead:
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TheMightyFavog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. No.
IIRC, once they take the cars in, they have to pump some sort of silicone solution through the engine to render it inoperable.

Scrapyards hate this provision, as they could have made a mint parting out the clunkers.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
28. Heard of recycling?
And the few of the cars that are decent, yes, will be resold. So what? Didja think car dealerships don't make profits?

:shrug:
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. They can't resell any of them
The program has two intents: to cause people to buy more new cars, and to get some old beaters off the road. Reselling cars that came into the Cash for Clunkers program is contrary to the second goal.

Then again...if someone shows up at a dealership to take advantage of Cash for Clunkers in a car the dealer knows he can sell for more than the CfC payment, nothing says he can't take the car as a regular trade-in.
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gizmo1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
34. Auction.nt
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
36. They are going to be crushed. n/t
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. They're going to strip off the good parts and crush the rest
They're required to destroy the powertrain, but they can pull off small expensive pieces of the rest of the car before they put the old car in a crusher.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
50. They are supposed to disable the engines - permanently
But this is going to make a problem for disposing of the clunkers:

Auto recyclers leery of cash for clunkers

By CATHERINE TSAI (AP) – 4 days ago

DENVER — Not all auto recyclers are relishing the government's new cash for clunkers program, which requires car dealers to destroy the gas-guzzlers they get as trade-ins from new car buyers.

Used engines and drivetrains are a big part of recyclers' income from each scrapped car, and under the federal program those engines must be destroyed. The idea is to promote fuel efficiency and help automakers, but it comes at a time when more than a dozen U.S. auto parts suppliers have filed for bankruptcy this year.

"Why throw away good parts when the supply chain is in jeopardy? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense," said Michael Wilson, executive vice president of the Automotive Recyclers Association based in Manassas, Va. Engines and drivetrains account for 60 percent of recyclers' revenue from a used vehicle, Wilson said.

Under cash for clunkers, the government is advising car dealers to replace a trade-in's engine oil with a sodium silicate solution and run the engine to ruin it before giving or selling the car to a scrap dealer.

More: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gjH6wd5n6pKrji_vJv3WUWXtfGDQD99NKTF81


I think this is a stupid move, unless they want to create a new industry of making more efficient engines to retrofit into old bodies. I know that if an engine is dead or not one is likely to be resalable, it can be hard to find anyone to haul off a old car.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
12. Will he shake his spotted fist at all and sundry assembled?
Is he mad?

America WANTS this bill. He's on the wrong side of the fence, here.

Look, I drive a clunker (but a relatively nice clunker, that is astoundingly good on gas, too) that is almost a quarter century old. I'm going to keep driving the old girl until she doesn't run anymore. I have no plans to buy a new car.

However, for people who would like a car, I like this idea. It puts a better car within reach of people driving shitboxes. That's a good thing. And it's better than the "Go out and shop" mantra of Bush, because at least some people are buying American cars.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Is he still around?
More correctly, is he still relevant? I respect that he wants to cut wasteful spending but it seems like his antennae for determining what constitutes "wasteful spending" might be a little off here. :shrug:
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
17. *snort* C4C describes his presidential campaign contributions.
or Cindy's pre-nup.
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Walk away Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #17
31. Funny! n/t
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
18. Old Man Yells At Cloud.


What a sad example of Republican values. Fuck up any government program that would help someone that doesn't own thirteen autos.

Or married an heiress.








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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. lol...The President is a Demmy-crat!
once he starts using dickety in place of twenty the transformation will be complete.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
35. Or when he starts wearing an onion on his belt
(As was the style at the time)
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Diamonique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
21. How predictable.
I said from the beginning that the stimulus needed to have something in it that the people can see and feel immediately... something specifically for the individual. If people can feel some benefit of the stimulus personally, it's good for the country as a whole and good for Obama politically. The cash for clunkers program is exactly the type of thing I was thinking of.

And of course McCain is against it. Anything that will be a good mark from the people for Obama is a no-no for McCain.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
23. 2 billion for clunkers an not a word from him
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 10:33 AM by safeinOhio
about the 33 billion in bonuses for bailed out CEOs?
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
24. This is a guy with how many houses filibustering against people who
would like to have one car.


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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
25. So does that mean the old guy
has to stand up in front of the Senate and read the phone book until his Depends fill up?

That could be interesting.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
26. Go for it McCain because I doubt you have the votes to do a procedural filibuster,
so you are going to have to get up there and flap your jaws. Maybe Lindsey Graham will help, but I doubt that there are too many Republicans who want to so vigorously voice their opposition to a very popular program.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
29. Will he be reading from the phonebook?
Oh wait, he won't actually have to filibuster, just threaten one.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. He needs 40 to vote against cloture to do a procedural filibuster.
I don't think he'll get enough Repubs or Blue Dogs to side with him on this one. The program is too popular. It passed in the House 316-109, so it looks like around 60 Republicans must have voted for it.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Well he needs 40 to succeed, doesn't need any to threaten it
Obviously McCain doesn't have that kind of juice. This is what is called an idle threat.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
32. He had to do something to get focus back on him from Palin's antics
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
39. Speaking of old clunkers, how's it going,John?
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Stevenmarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
42. Since McCain dumped his disabled wife for an heiress he would know about Cash for Clunkers
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Ouch.
Truth.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. ouch +1
:rofl:
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
45. They must not have any car dealerships or auto financing firms in Arizona...
n/t.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
46. You do that, Johnny!
Go right ahead! The voters who you will prevent taking advantage of what is an outrageously popular program, are going to remember what you and your party are going to pull. I just hope Harry Reid has the balls to hold him to his word on it. (Yeah, I know. It's a lot to hope for.)
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. McCain always gets it 180 degrees wrong.
He tries to go whichever way the wind is blowing, he just can never tell which way that is.
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