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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 09:58 AM
Original message
Maybe you think you know this story-But remember-everything Bush/Cheney did turned out to be a lie'
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 10:06 AM by kpete
John Walker Lindh--A Lens And A Mirror
by: Paul Rosenberg
Sat Aug 01, 2009 at 10:30

Maybe you think you know this story. But then remember that everything Bush/Cheney did turned out to be a lie....

Yesterday, Democracy Now! aired the first-ever extended interview with the parents of John Walker Lindh, Marilyn Walker and Frank Lindh, which lasted for the entire hour. The introduction reads as follows:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/31/exclusive_john_walker_lindhs_parents_discuss

In their first extended interview, the parents of John Walker Lindh, Marilyn Walker and Frank Lindh, join us for the hour to tell their son's story. He was born in Washington, DC in 1981. At the age of sixteen, he converted to Islam. In 1999, Lindh left the United States for Yemen to study Arabic and the Koran. He later traveled to Pakistan and then to Afghanistan, before 9/11, where he received military training from the US-backed, Taliban-run Afghan Army to fight against the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan's civil war. He was captured in late 2001, found emaciated and wounded, one of the few to survive a massacre by the Northern Alliance. To his parents' relief, he was handed to US forces, but they brutalized him, as well. Donald Rumsfeld had ordered them to "take the gloves off." He was designated Detainee 001 in the war on terror. When he returned to the United States in January 2002, he was being held as a prisoner accused of conspiring to kill Americans. As part of a plea deal, Lindh pleaded guilty to serving in the Taliban army and carrying weapons and was given a twenty-year sentence.


There are four things that aren't said in that introduction which come out later in the interview:
(1) Lindh was not guilty of any of the charges against him that were dropped. (2) Lindh had been denied counsel in Afghanistan, even though his parents had already retained counsel for him in California--who was simultaneously denied access to his client. (3) Lindh had been tortured and was about to testify about his torture when the government offered its deal, to prevent his testimony from becoming public. (4) Lindh took the deal because a fair trial was impossible, he faced certain conviction because of the state of national hysteria at the time, and the way he had been portrayed in the stenographic press.

.........................

Reflect on the following and how it sounded in 2002 versus how it sounds now,

JUAN GONZALEZ: When he returned to the United States in January 2002, John Walker Lindh was being held as a prisoner accused of conspiring to kill Americans. Newspapers around the world published photos of him naked, blindfolded and strapped to a gurney.

On January 15, 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced charges were being filed against him.

JOHN ASHCROFT: In a complaint filed in the US District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, the United States is charging Walker with the following crimes: one, conspiracy to kill nationals of the United States of America overseas; two, providing material support and resources to designated foreign terrorist organizations, including al-Qaeda; and three, engaging in prohibited transactions with the Taliban. If convicted of these charges, Walker could receive life imprisonment.

AMY GOODMAN: At the time, John Walker Lindh was twenty years old. Days after Ashcroft's press conference, Lindh was allowed to briefly see his parents. His father Frank spoke to the media soon after.

FRANK LINDH: John loves America. We love America. John did not do anything against America. John did not take up arms against America. He never meant to harm any American, and he never did harm any American. John is innocent of these charges.

AMY GOODMAN: While John Walker Lindh was constantly being referred to as the American Taliban and as a traitor in the US media, the government's case against him largely fell apart.

As part of a plea deal, the Bush administration eventually dropped all the terrorism-related charges and the charge that he had conspired to kill Americans. In exchange, John Walker Lindh pleaded guilty to serving in the Taliban army and carrying weapons. He was given a twenty-year sentence and agreed not to talk about what had happened for the duration of his sentence and agreed to drop any claims that he had been tortured by the US military.

......................

FRANK LINDH: He was already wounded. He had a bullet wound in his thigh, and he had shrapnel wounds in his legs. He was dehydrated. He suffered hyperthermia. He was very close to death in that media interview there.

And instead of being treated humanely--it's a difficult subject for us, but Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld--this is a document that came out in the discovery in John's case-ordered, "Take the gloves off." Juan referred to this. This was his order, direct order from the Secretary of Defense. And from that point forward, they severely abused John to the point that I would say constitutes torture. He was stripped naked in the winter. His bullet wound was left untreated. They put painful restraints, plastic restraints, around his wrists and his ankles, and he was tied to a gurney and placed naked in a metal--unheated metal shipping container in the desert and left there for two days and two nights shivering. His wounds were left--

....................

AMY GOODMAN: Questioning him?

FRANK LINDH: Oh, yes, yes, questioning. After the torture, he was brought in and said, "If you'll talk to us, we'll stop torturing you."

............................



more:
http://openleft.com/diary/14442/john-walker-lindha-lens-and-a-mirror
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Shoud President Obama pardon the American Taliban?
I think so.
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jasi2006 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Yes!!!!
A thousand times yes. Let's start a movement to get him pardoned.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. And reinforce the idea
that President Obama is sympathetic to Muslim causes and might even be a secret Muslim? No. The media has already tried this guy and found him guilty.

This American Taliban is just another of the millions of victims of Bush Administration malfeasance. We can't begin to correct every wrong they did. The RW media would have field day with this.
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Amos Moses Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. We can't risk tarnishing Dear Leader's image.
Let him rot in prison instead. :patriot:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
44. Not unless you want a
filthy fucking Republican in the whitehouse to destroy the country the way the last one did. Any idiot knows the M$M characterizes President Obama in the worst possible way on every issue. All he needs to do is start pardoning Muslims.
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Amos Moses Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. There are things in this world
that are more important than the Washington celebrity you watch on TV.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Wha?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Amos Moses Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Hard to believe
isn't it?
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. Obama pardons torturers, not victims.
Oh, http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE53H1Y020090418">yes he does.

He continues to drive the torture getaway car. And it will be his only legacy.

--
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. At the very least...
...he should commute the sentence to time served and let Mr. Lindh out of prison.

He's going to have a hard row to hoe, no matter what. Whether he is pardoned or not, a large number of his fellow citizens will always think of him as the "American Taliban" and will continue to think that he did something against this country.

He was just a stupid young man who got involved in something he should have stayed out of. He's lucky to be alive, but unlucky to have been imprisoned under the circumstances.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. at the time we knew he was getting a raw deal


glad it is being brought up again
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Funny. I've been thinking about him a lot lately
I believe his parents. I always thought there was something really bad happening to him. He got caught up in the raging jingoism and uber patriotism fueled by Bush after 9/11
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. Unfortunately the American people would just as soon forget about him
Because the mention of his name reminds us all of what scared wussies we all were in the aftermath of 9/11.

And how stupid we appear in retrospect (not to mention how we look in the eyes of the rest of the world).
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
36. Most would forget about him, the occupation of Iraq, the
innocents being held in Gitmo and the almost 1 trillion we are spending on killing machines this year.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R. Democracy Now! is the real deal. nt
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
30. Ditto that. They just did an exclusive Zelaya interview too.
Why exclusive? The M$M doesn't even bother!!!
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. Got that right, Democracy Now exposes the truth!
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. .
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. K and R
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
10. K & R
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I have stood up for him before on this board, and was shocked by how little sympathy his case received, even here. Anyone that reads DU should be able to see through the BS of the Bush criminals, yet many were duped when it came to this case.

Free him ASAP!
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. This young man's predicament has always bothered me.
One of the most pitiful pictures was of him cruelly bound to a gurney half naked, blindfolded. I do hope justice will be served, just one of so many who's life has been unfairly stripped of basic freedom.
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. yep
Good for you, for some reason very few seemed to find him defensible in the thread I'm remembering.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. Too tired to read it tonight.
K & R
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
12. "If you'll talk to us, we'll stop torturing you." Shameful. k+r, n/t
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. K & R and want to help find the truth. n/t
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. It was always for political gain, to pimp the Bush administration.It's America's shame
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. The world sees us not able to face our own hypocrisy.That's what theTaliban wanted.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. That's what it was.
And Bush lies still haunt America every single day.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. K&R
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
18. Remember Jose Padilla?
The government destroyed an American citizen who never went to trial. The guy was tortured in the worst way -- sensory depravation and solitary confinement for years. His mind is gone.

And then there are all those "terror plots" to blow up runways and what not, nationwide, that cropped up regularly. People, usually foreign born and with limited education, would be entrapped in some hideous and pathetic plot. It seems the arrests of 6 or 7 "terrorist" wannables would make a lot of big headlines and then, after the trials found people innocent, disappear.
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National Steel 27 Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Naw, man, nobody remembers Jose
"Furniture", wasn't they how they describrd his mental state?

I have spent some time in solitary, but not subjected to anything near what that poor soul was.

So much bullshit.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
50. How U.S. Interrogators Destroyed the Mind of Jose Padilla
Using the War on Terror as its excuse, the Government of the United States has acted as terrorists:



How U.S. Interrogators Destroyed the Mind of Jose Padilla

Jose Padilla has been found guilty in court and faces possible life in prison, but forensic psychiatrist Dr. Angela Hegarty explains after interviewing him that Padilla already paid the ultimate price through torture -- he's lost his mind.


By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now!
Posted August 17, 2007.

On Thursday, the jury in the Jose Padilla terror trial has found the American citizen guilty of conspiracy to support Islamic terrorism overseas. His sentencing is set for December 5 and he faces possible life in prison.

The FBI initially arrested him in Chicago in 2002 after he got off a plane from Europe. For a month he was held as a material witness. Then Attorney General John Ashcroft made a dramatic announcement -- the U.S. government had disrupted an al-Qaeda plot to set off nuclear dirty bombs inside the United States. At the center of the plot, Ashcroft alleged, was Padilla.

President Bush then classified Jose Padilla as an enemy combatant, stripping him of all his rights. He was transferred to a Navy brig in South Carolina where he was held in extreme isolation for forty three months.

The Christian Science Monitor reported: "Padilla's cell measured nine feet by seven feet. The windows were covered over… He had no pillow. No sheet. No clock. No calendar. No radio. No television. No telephone calls. No visitors. Even Padilla's lawyer was prevented from seeing him for nearly two years."

According to his attorneys, Padilla was routinely tortured in ways designed to cause pain, anguish, depression and ultimately the loss of will to live.

His lawyers have claimed that Padilla was forced to take LSD and PCP to act as a sort of truth serum during his interrogations.

CONTINUED...

http://www.alternet.org/story/59958/




Furniture.



Thank you for sharing, National Steel 27. A hearty welcome to DU!
Wish it were under more pleasant circumstances, like Justice.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
21. Great post!
Thanks for reminding everyone of this kid who got the rawest of deals, and who should be set free immediately. If ever anyone was railroaded, this young man was.

Steve Earle, one of my most favorite favorites, did a good thing for him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISFNTRaXRiI
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
26. I briefly remember this story. It had some twists that didn't make sense.
Thanks for the pieces of this story. How else would we know that this young man received U.S. backed military training and was helping against the Northern Alliance.

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
27. Truth will out
There will be justice
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
29. It's all part of the bigger picture
The Bush cartel effectively used fear to ram a police state fascist agenda down our collective throats. They used the same methods as Hitler and the Nazis as an excuse to impose American domination on energy producing countries like Iraq.
The events of 9-11 gave them the freedom to expose their inner Nazis.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. + 100%
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
31. Complaining about government torture is futile! They are the government.
It is like going to the police to complain about the police.
They are the police, and we live in a police state.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
32. K&R
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
33. Every single thing we were fed via MSM was a lie the entire time
Edited on Sun Aug-02-09 09:08 AM by mother earth
of GW's eight long years. They should be behind bars or hung for treason against this country. It's absolutely sickening, the more you dig, the more slime and muck is dredged up. WHY isn't the criminal cabal made accountable?

Thanks, kpete. Yet another episode of what really took place while this country was held hostage to the Bush/Cheney regime.

This story needs more coverage, it should be sent immediately to Olbermann, Maddow & Schultz. The public needs to know the extent of these lies, every damned lie needs the sun shown on it. A huge K & R!
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
34. The Lindh story must be
just the beginning of the volumes of horrible stories that will come out about the Bush/Cheney regime and how the shameless MSM acquiesced and cheered the regime on. There must a a place in hell, or a place that is "hell-on-earth" for these perpetrators. May they be hounded for the rest of their lives with the stories that are slowly unreeling to reveal their criminal deeds. Only then will Justice be truly served.
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azul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
37. Why does the family get to speak out now?
Was the family under a gag order this whole time -to conceal the Bush administration's use of torture and propaganda and lies? And why isn't the MSM running with this news story now to correct its mistakes?

The failure of the press in not getting the story straight and in being used as a propaganda tool for criminal activity cries out for investigation and justice.

Somebody in the government or media had better get this history right, or it will continue to engulf the US in war and criminality.

Many thanks DN!, they are usually about a year or two ahead of the MSM in getting the real news out:



FRANK LINDH: Well, as I say before, nothing like this has ever happened in our country, where a young twenty-year-old kid was singled out like this and declared to be a terrible criminal by the top officials of the government. And after 9/11, the media in our country was—had really lost its bearings. There was no objectivity. No one wanted to look at the actual facts of John’s case, for example, that he went to Afghanistan before 9/11. If you read the newspapers, you would expect that he went there after 9/11 and that he was an al-Qaeda member and all this kind of stuff.
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johnnypneumatic Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
38. Here is the interesting part:
"He later traveled to Pakistan and then to Afghanistan, before 9/11, where he received military training from the US-backed, Taliban-run Afghan Army to fight against the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan's civil war."

I don't know, I'm just putting pieces together here:

Sibel Edmonds just let loose that the Taliban and Bin Laden/Al Queda were working for the CIA up until 9/11. And Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the UAE were supporting the Taliban. Bin Laden was Saudi, Al Queda was backed by the Saudis.

So before 9/11 the US was backing, working with, the Taliban who were fighting the Northern Alliance.
Yet after, the Northerns were working for the US in the war against the Taliban.
We were for the Taliban before we were against them.
And Lindh was on the good side, until ...

He had to be shut up, because now the Taliban were the bad guys, and we were always at war with EastAsia, so they did to him what they did to Winston Smith.

What was the deal? The US wanted the trans Afgan oil pipeline to carry oil from the north through down to Pakistan. There is also the deal about afganistan being the major supplier of Heroin with the opium poppy. Were we helping the Taliban to take over and pacify the country (fighting the northern alliance) for the pipeline?
Bush also had the Taliban leaders to his ranch in the summer of 2001, and we gave them that $43 million in May 2001.

But then, the Taliban was stopping opium production, and decided they didn't care about money or the pipeline deal anymore. They just wanted control of the country and the US could go to hell...

then 9/11
The Taliban is the enemy, the Northern Alliance is our friend, Pakistan is our best buddy, the Saudis still our friends but not too happy, but it's all about the oil.
And opium production is back, at record levels.
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Amazing isn't it?
And anyone questioning the official version of 9/11 is a psycho conspiracy nut. I don't pretend to know exactly what happened, but I'm certain we had at least a hand in it, and I'd love nothing more than for it to be exposed.
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
39. Kick
Because it's too late to rec.

DemocracyNow! is real news, an anomaly.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
43. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
45. Kick. (nt)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
47. Thank you . . . I was just thinking about this poor man the other day . . .
obviously innocent of any wrongdoing and tortured --
or do any Americans think that being duct taped to a stretcher to be transported
isn't torture?

OTOH, I have to say that the real proof that organized patriarchal religion is
basic insanity -- and that it has ALWAYS been used by our government in its own
imperialistic interests -- and continues to be used in that way today -- is obvious
from the Bush crusades.

In the 1960's there was a revolution -- against authority, against patriarchal religion,
against our current chemical medicines and methods of making childbearing an illness,
against the idea that anyone among us is less than human, against wars and war-mongering,
imperialistic concepts of government and intelligence agencies, against the lies of
government and hierarchies ....

Yet it is referred to as the "sexual revolution" which makes clear how much about it
they want to downplay/hide from the public. At the time, I remember thinking that the
only way that organized patriarchal religion could recover was if they raised an army
again. In looking back on those years, it is obvious that organized patriarchal
religion did become militant -- secretly militant.

If there's anything left of John Lindh, it would be merciful of Pres. Obama to issue
a pardon, or to commute his sentence.

Not clear if the parents have been permitted even now to spend any time with him?

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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
51. Poor kid - Another victim of Bush/Cheney
They had to get someone to be the evil doer. They let bin Laden get away. I wonder now if bin Laden was really involved.

I don't know if his pardon or comute could be kept quiet because you know that every crazy would be out to get him.

He seems to have a positive attitude that this allows him the opportunity to study, which is what he wanted anyway. At least he is safe where he is and the place is quiet. Maybe he could be released into the witness protection system.
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
52. his life was ruined by a cruel lie
and he should be pardoned as soon as possible . I cried as I listened to Amy Goodman talk to his parents, it was so sad.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 01:52 PM
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53. Kick (nt)
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