Blue Dog overheard: "what do we have to do to get the Democrats off our back?"

Exactly what I have been trying to say. They do not think of themselves as Democrats first of all. They think of themselves as making sure the other side is enabled, that we do not really act like strong Democrats.

Steve Hildebrand at Huffington Post talks about how this group is holding up progress and then wondering why some Democrats are on their back.

Battling the Blue Dogs



Hildebrand is right. No matter where they are from, no matter what district....the rest of us need to be concerned. Their votes affect all of us equally.

If they vote against health care reform because their district is right wing....they hurt people throughout the country in blue districts as well.

Steve Hildebrand is not know to be especially embracing of some on the left in the party, so this is even more meaningful that he is upset with this group.

Hildebrand tells the left not to draw conclusions about Obama's cabinet picks



I wonder if he is rethinking those comments now?

An article from last year showed that this Blue Dog Coalition thinks of themselves as the dealmakers between the Democrats and Republicans.



Dear God, I hate the words "rational center". I am the center, and I am very rational.



But to the fellow who wants this Democrat "off his back"...I say no. If we don't use this majority to pass a solid Democratic agenda I think you will pay even in your conservative districts.

And so will we all pay for your dealmaking.

I've kept in contact with my congressman and sent emails and snail mail. But I think we can all do something else if we aren't able to go to their offices or town hall.

I'm sending out this video of the Bill Moyer interview of Wendell Potter (who once was an exec of Cigna Ins) to everyone in my email account, like a chain letter. I hope everyone does the same.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

taking the bait. There is a choice between voting for a repug and voting for a repug in Dem clothing; run a real Dem against them or vote third party! Allowing them to corrupt our party from within is NOT an option!

Spot on!

and said he voted for Reagan but was worried he was going to be too liberal

He said (paraphrasing) "Thank God, for the Blue Dogs. They are the only ones saving us right now".

Did you see this:



edit to add - I also liked this (the part I bolded, certainly not Nelson):

"Green subsequently accused Nelson of threatening to kill healthcare reform:

“Did Ben Nelson really just say that if the grassroots keep pressuring him, he’ll kill healthcare reform?” Green wrote in a public response. “That’s unacceptable in a democracy, so we will be increasing our Nebraska ad buy on Monday morning.”

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/nelson-liberals-escalate-feud-2009-08-02.html

And Marian Berry D-Ark needs to have some Dems "on his back"

because they were from "outsiders". One of the highlighted statements of above says it all. Ben you may have been elected in NB but you are working on the health issue that involves all of us.

Make no mistake if the powers that be think they are gonna get away with half assed healthcare reform they are crazy.
Everyone has a story that effects them personally about how the health care industry is screwing them or someone they know.
People are being radicalized overnight. If the blue Dogs think they are untouchable they are nuts.

So he's talking about me. :hi:

a 'puke is a 'puke.

with the republicker party going nutso-coo-coo, the 'pukes have been moving into our territory with the help of corporate funds.

the big-money corp'ses aren't going to back the losing team where their work won't be done on Capital Hill.

I mourn for healthcare in this nation. I mourn that folks won't see what's going on until--once again--it's too late.

Right now we are not sure just what is in the bill, and we don't know what concessions have been made.

I for one will not let up until these assholes do the right thing for the people.

blow your fucking brains out, blame it on the "radical liberal" Democrats.

I'll personally send you all a card - of thanks.

mark

But they must be afraid they can't win as Republicans. They want their cake and eat it too...

This past summer I decided to get busy and see if I could help elect a dem in this very red state (one of the top three red states). So I send "willing to volunteer" emails to the local county Dems, the state Dems, and two candidates. After over a month of waiting the state party calls. So I work 60 hours a week trying to help promote the state party and so much more. . . . I was satisfied that we were able to elect one of two possibilities, better than nothing, right?

Dumb SOB has voted with republicans across the board since he got there. The State party is refusing to pay a friend of mine the money they owe her because the state party is run by two lawyers who are playing ridiculous legal games like not giving her lawyer a legal representative to speak to (both lawyers are indicating they are acting as Chair and Exec Dir, not as legal representatives, some lawyers on here probably know about this trick). . . .in brief, these friggin' blue dogs are WORSE than repubs who are at least honest about the fact that they could give a crap about small (I mean really small, not the mid-size $1M businesses, but the $100K-$150K businesses) business whereas the blue dogs claim to be dems and aren't, the repubs tout that they hate lower income and poor people, the blue dogs . . . .well you get my drift. Furthermore in this state they are managing to empower the repubs in a whole 'nother way. . . how does one argue with a repub who "courteously" reminds you that the Democrats "you" put in office are siding with the repubs, which they say clearly indicates that Obama and all the progressives are full of crap, socialists? ???

I say boot them out, sooner rather than later. /rant off

if you would flesh it out a little more. Names, stuff like that. :thumbsup:

the Democratic Party on any level. It's ridiculous, but I should honor her perspective at this point. I will say that the amount in dispute is under $3000 if they would even do so much as recognize her in-kind contribution which she offered to cover most of the billing, but they say they refuse to recognize her as even so much as a contributor. She indicated to me and others that if they had come back and agreed to pay a smaller amount and requested a larger in-kind memo, she would've done it. They seem to think it can be considered volunteer work even though they had a contract to pay her, which they conveniently . . . oh, I better shut up. She's going to be really po'd if she finds out I even posted this much.

:shrug:

That's just for starters

It's a sure giveaway.

but especially the one referred to in the op.

Isn't it obvious?

..........who is "the one referred to in the op"???

...that "you GOT to have a Conservative Democrat to win in a RED state."
That is just bullshit!

I firmly believe that a Populist Democrat running on a platform of Working Class Economic Justice and avoiding the social wedge issues (abortion & guns) can WIN in any state in America.
On Economic Issues, the MAJORITY of Americans (Democrats & Republicans) agree with the kooky Left.






"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

And I don't agree with it either.

If we have to act like Republicans to win, then why have a majority?

Our Blue Dogs sell out. It's not that they want to be bad people, per se. They're just bought. It takes a lot of money to run for office.

:dem:

-Laelth

But y'all know that.

Unfortunately it is true.

..in their districts too. Yeah they may have (and need) some 'centrist' voters to break 50%, but they also need the core 20-30% of liberal voters too. In the policy votes they seem to be kowtowing to the swing group while ignoring the base. The base in the state needs to remind these BDs not to take them for granted or they won't show up next time.

I have seen first hand how Conservadem Bill Nelson of Florida has little regard for his Democratic constituents.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6205141&mesg_id=6205141

How many more? They are not Dems at all ..

weak.

...unsubstantiated, anti-Democratic "fact" posted as reality misrepresented to forward a certain agenda.

Weak, sad, and essentially the definition of what they call "DINO"!

Please make sense.

:wtf:

....doesn't make sense to many here, eh?

If you have so much spunk, why not visit (R) discussion boards and terrorize them.

Supporting Democrats is what you do with dollars and your time in order to help them win elections and progress an agenda.

Do you really imagine harassing Dems here is supporting the Democratic Party somehow? Stop being a zombie.

....I'm disappointed to see so-called "Dems" here acting the same way as those Republicans.

FYI, I do support Democrats with my time, money, AND involvement. I'm a DEMOCRATIC elected official in my city, treasurer for two DEMOCRATIC candidate committees and deputy treasurer for a third. I've been a DEMOCRATIC delegate to our state DEMOCRATIC convention, and worked in about a dozen local DEMOCRATIC campaigns and countless DEMOCRATIC presidential campaigns.

Harassing "Dems"??? What you call "harassing" is calling out so-called "Democrats" who continually harass and criticize our Democratic candidates and office holders, tearing them down because they don't support the "Democrats" here 110%. One can't have it all - to me, 90% of what I want by supporting our office holders is infinitely better than 0% of what I want which would be the result of constant criticism and destrtion of OUR Democratic office holders. Got it?

By the way, what is your definition of "zombie"? This should be interesting.

If I am supposed to be impressed with your credentials, then I might wonder where is the wisdom an experienced person like yourself should have earned.

Politics isn't 100% for us or you are against us as you seem to suggest.

Did you know you are breaking DU rules regularly or do you even care? Who appointed you to go around calling out people as so-called Dems?

Good Democrats call politicians out when they say and more importantly DO anything that is against our principles. Get it?

I do not think you are discussing in good faith. At DU dissent is welcome as long as it is of a progressive bent. So you want to ruin DU and make it safe for what you seem to suggest are fragile politicians. Good luck with that.

....sadly, some here never get around to discussing "policy" at all!

"Good Democrats call politicians out when they say and more importantly DO anything that is against our principles."?

Good politics and good policy are accomplished not through demanding EVERYTHING that I want. We must leave room for some (as little as possible, of course) of what those who disagree with us are looking for.

I'll go back to what I said earlier - I prefer getting 90% of what I would like to see and 10% of what I would not like to see rather than an unwavering insistence on getting ALL of what I want to see and accomplishing very little because insistence on that last 10% destroys any possibility of getting most of the 90%. Accomplishing little, which will be the result of this constant criticism of those we just recently elected (this Congress has been in session for barely a half a year!) certainly cannot be called "progressive".

Get it?

You say "politics isn't 100% for us or you are against us", but that is exactly what many (the OP in particular) here insist upon. Obama is doing a fantastic job and Congress is doing a better job these days than we've seen since early in the Clinton years. But that's not good enough for many - they want it ALL, they want it NOW, or they will destroy what we are attempting to accomplish if they don't get their way. When was the last time you saw a post or discussion centered around praising Democrats around here? Not very often!

That is not Democratic or Republican, that is destructive. All that will come out of it is lost House and Senate seats next year and where will that leave us? Possibly back to the dark ages of the late '90s through 2008.

I make no suggestion that we have fragile politicians (where did you get that one?????)

But you still don't seem to understand. People who place policy before politician are very unlikely to have Praise the Democrats Days in general. It isn't about the Party as much as it is about policy at least until the party does what Progressives here want them to do and you seem to think that is strange. If a politician doesn't do what activists want, then they won't have as much of their help when it comes to reelection. You say there are not many general appreciation threads of Democrats or discussions of policy. Well, people also come here to socialize, gripe, argue, whatever. Think you are going to change our nature? This place is sort of a melting pot of thoughts for progressives.

I do wonder how you can rationalize stalking what you say are so-called Democrats on this discussion board.

I do not have a lot of time right now to discuss this or I would try and condense this. I may come back to this later and explain what I meant by fragile but you are ignoring some of my argument as well so maybe not.

..............we don't need "Praise the Democrats Days", but obviously you ignored most of what I posted, or perhaps it is you who doesn't understand?


and..........."stalking"?

Stalking doesn't refer to me in any way. I won't say anything more about it unless I see it again.

Believe me when I say I am not in 100% disagreement with you at all. I just don't agree that fellow DU'ers shouldn't be on the offensive when politicians don't seem to be doing what we want.

I may have read some things into what you wrote that you did not intend. It's a possibility. Take care.

...I appreciate your post.

I don't think that fellow DU'ers should not be on the offensive when politicians don't do what we want, but unfortunately too many DU'ers make a career out of it here. I criticize, and I cajole my local Democratic office holders, but I also heap praise on them when they're doing the job I think they should do. Most of the time they're doing just fine, but sometimes they screw up.

But those who can't find anything good to say? It really upsets me.

whose experiences have all shaped them differently.

Some are always positive, some always negative, and most somewhere in between.

I generally appreciate anyone who makes a contribution no matter what kind of personality they have. When I PERCEIVE someone being treated with hostility, it is generally not a comfortable experience for the 'hostile' person. I get right back in their face. And I don't just reserve that behavior for the internet. Sadly or not, it is how I am in real life.

I understand you better, for that, thanks.

If you don't like the criticism, please refute it.

Politics is a combination of negotiation, coalition building, and yes, even party loyalty. The Blue Dogs compromising as are others in the party.

.....you're treading on thin ice here by daring to bring up "negotiation, coalition building, and yes, even party loyalty". I've been accused of being offensive in discussions like this by bringing up those very important aspects of politics - even in this very discussion. Good luck to you, and good luck fending off the coming onslaught from "Democrats" here.

"I recently heard one Blue Dog ask "what do we have to do to get the Democrats off our back?" "

That is where it ends!!! So how do you know it's the deputy campaign manager to Obama? Tea leaves? Oh, and the "campaign" ended on November 4 2008!!!!! There IS no "campaign manager".

If you don't like the criticism....................

It is getting tiring.

Hildebrand was Obama's deputy campaign manager. I pretty much trust his word.

When I see 3 posts with no name, I check my updated list and sure enough...there you are.

.....and yes, it IS getting tiring, your continued and constant criticism of Democrats.

Steve Hildebrand

Barack Obama's National Deputy Campaign Manager
Posted: July 28, 2009 11:12 AM


You need to stop following my every post and read more carefully.

Back you go.

I'd get off their backs if they would act like Democrats!

that would take care of it.

It's so simple, you'd think they could figure it out.

I don't blindly support anyone just because they are a Democrat.

Are you showing sympathy for the Blue Dogs for not supporting their fellow Dems & the healthcare that we all want so bad?

them into office to vote as Democrats and that is the way they should vote.

I think these particular Blue Dogs mandate from the people to vote Democratic is even stronger than in districts that are typically Democratic. These voters sent them a message that they wanted change by electing them to office. Their constituents did not want more Republicans in those seats (the party of No). These Blue Dogs were elected to shake these up and get things done like health care reform. So they need to get off their butts and get with the program, or out with their asses.

Most of them ran to the right of the national party to get elected and most of them refused to even associate themselves with Obama during their campaigns.

but on healthcare, pro-business is pro-public-option or single payer option. The only business that has an interest in maintaining the current distribution of health care dollars is the health care insurance business. No other business is making anything on our current system. Most of them, in fact any business that employs Americans, is losing money on the status quo.

Even the pharmaceutical industry would probably make more money if we had a rational distribution of health care dollars. Because the money that goes to the CEOs and into the advertising and other expenditures of the health insurance companies cannot be spent on pharmaceutical products. And people without health insurance generally do not buy pharmaceutical products unless they really, really need them. In fact, a person without health care insurance probably doesn't see a GP or family doctor often enough to keep a prescription active.

constituents that she is a "New Dem" not a "Blue Dog".

..Anyone know the difference, if any?

I think the Blue Dogs are more inclined to appeal to the deep South, and they are more rigid on social issues.

The New Dems are similar in their corporate ties, though.

the "dog" label when asked recently. I figured there was no real difference.

Progressive Caucus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus

Duh!

to drive real reform without breaking a sweat. If you aren't going to represent your party, than shame on you & you will feel the pain from this inaction and sell-out. TAKE NAMES & MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE come next election, and give 'em hell now. Let's get a roll call of the blue dogs & keep it kicked on the front page so everybody knows the enemy.

Senate & Congress, and remember those are lifetime benefits that we pay for, stop them today until we get single payer. Why should we pay for these bums to enjoy the best plan available today, until we get the best plan for all?

Do the honest thing and become Republicans.

are a clandestine Repub operation, used to infiltrate the Democratic party. Even when they're not in power, they're still in power. :banghead:

1. Kill yourself.
2. Become a Repuke.

Blue Cross Blue Shield Blue Dogs?

Just askin' ................

:)

working on the repug side for years, secretly, until they were outed a few years ago. Some of them were, for instance, president of the local Democratic Club, Dem Party state reps, etc. When we had a former president called to task for, among other things, undermining any Democrat who ran for local office, she brought with her to the meeting what can only be described as a mob, who began shouting "Point of procedure! Point of procedure" every time the current president tried to speech (with no actual point of procedure to offer). The meeting simply could not proceed.

After that, the president resigned, and the club became a shambles, with many members choosing not to be part of a club that was dominated by the DINOs (I was one of the ones who left). Now we have a great president I trust, but I haven't been able to bring myself to be part of them again, as the DINOs are still there.

There must be something that can be done about this kind of fungus.

in 2010 if they don't knuckle under to conservacorporates. I say, What is the difference then?

We need real democrats to run against these a*holes. Let them fear the people instead of the corporations for a change.

My uncle was a State representative and senator for 28 years. His district was strongly Democratic on both the state and local level, but occasionally strayed into the 'R' column, federally. The people I grew up with were hard-core 'pro-labor' (coal miners), and fundamentally (let's take the word back, shall we?) pro- Bill of Rights' types. Where they became 'conservative', largely, was on the issue of governmental spending: they did not oppose spending tax dollars as a knee-jerk reaction, but they did want to a.) be told the truth about how much something would cost and how it was going to be paid for and b.) why should the money be spent in the first place, i.e., what was the greater 'public good'?

using your own brand of Blue Dog rhetoric?

Lets stick it to those Blue Dogs..by passing crappy health care legislation that will suck for everyone. Now THAT is a strong democratic agenda!!!

Seriously, do you listen to yourself?

in the third person.

I have no idea where you got the stuff you are talking about.

I think you have jumped on me for other stuff before after not reading what I wrote.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Really?

I don't think you even read a word of my post.