This birth certificate BS has gone too far and the secret service needs to get involved

This birth certificate BS has gone too far at this point. I don't know if anyone has seen the video of the middle aged lady going LITERALLY bat shit crazy waving papers around in the middle of a room full of people screaming Obama is not a citizen and literally going bat shit crazy. It is getting to the point these right wingers may take violent actions.

The fact is no WHITE president has EVER had this made so much of an issue. The fact is the people behind this are RACISTS - ALL OF THEM. They need to be called on it. So far I have not seen these people described as RACISTS and that needs to be said EVERY TIME WE REFER TO THEM. They are pulling this crap because he is NOT WHITE SIMPLE AS THAT.

But now it is getting to the point these people may get to the logical thought process of "Obama is not a legit president therefore we need to do X crazy illegal thing". They are already going nuts in public.

Also - as a side note - I have already been convinced MANY times prior that the American public as a whole are fucking moronic fools... but seeing how many people believe this shit takes my opinion of the American public to a whole new level. Half this country truly is mentally fucked.

because they KNOW one of their batshit crazy followers will take matters in their own hands.
Just like the ones that bomb abortion clinics, kill politicians, etc.

im not willing to see my political enemies silenced or jailed just for what they are saying no matter how batshit it may be..

isn't it?

We continue to have strokes over the way the Bush Administration did that, I'm not going to decide it's okay now.

I'd imagine the Secret Service and the FBI are keeping a close watch on these nuts and will move in when they are legally able to do so.

they are empowered to detain you with no trial until they feel you are no longer a threat.

That's the way it is.

No Birther is ever going to get within two miles of Obama.

Besides, the Secret Service doesn't work that way.

If they did, how many Dem protesters would have been detained over the last 8 years?

"Free Speech Zones"

The Secret Service already HAS that power, and they exercise it, too.

No Birther will get within two miles of Obama.

Sure, there were appearances where the "free speech zones" were set up well away from the event, but to suggest that the Secret Service will keep all birthers "2 miles away" from Obama...or to suggest that the Secret Service will detain them...is just silly.

when it crosses the line to advocating violence, law enforcement is legally empowered to address the problems, case by case.

Let us not sink to the level of the bush administration where school children doing creative writing assignments got questioned.

anybody who says anything against obama gets locked up, im not sure if i like the idea of censoring what people can say until it reaches the level if incitement.

how about - the govt. doesn't censor people for expressing OPINION.

the "level of incitement" is clearly defined. see: brandenberg.

claiming the president is illegitimate does not come CLOSE ot meeting it. it didn't with bush either (see: fake election vs. al gore etc.)

y'know free speech, etc?

despite your desires, thoughtcrime(tm) is not yet a criminal offense.

it is entirely legal (and there is ample historical examples of same) to claim a president is illegitimate, etc. unless one specifically calls for certain actions (try reading case law. brandenberg is a good start on when speech becomes criminal threats) in a certain way, IT'S PROTECTEd SPEECH.

fwiw, plenty of people questioned (and still do) bush's legitimacy and "election". that wasn't criminal either.

round them up and put them all in them there FEMA detention camps, for being stupid.

The Secret Service is empowered to detain ANYBODY they deem a risk to the president.

Happens all the time. If the president is going to be in an area close to a batshit insane Birther, that batshit insane Birther WILL be detained until the president is no longer in the area.

...at least not in the way that you're suggesting that birthers are a threat to Obama.

and yes they should be called on it. This is bullshit that our good man for a President has to put up with this shit.

The Secret Service insures people who pose a risk to the president are always detained whenever he's in an area close to them.

I've worked in a place that had Bush Sr. visit and they sweeped all the employees a week in advance. Several were not at work the day Bush arrived and come to find out later they were kept from work by the Secret Service.

These people were not even close to being the risk level of a Birther.

Questioning Obama's status as a "natural born citizen" may be silly, but it's protected free speech.

If the Secret Service was in the business of locking up anybody who questioned the President, there's be nobody left.

but it also got five people detained in 1989 at my place of work until Bush had left the area.

You're taking that incident (and, realistically, it's happened at other events) and expanding it to assume that no birther will be allowed within "2 miles" of Obama.


That's just silly.

What makes you think that those comments would result in the Secret Service keeping any birther "2 miles" away from Obama?

You must be great at parties.

That's the very unpleasant truth.

I'm quite sure the Secret Service has an eye on the nutcases.

Don't you remember the level of shit Clinton put up with? That's what stupid people do.

Obama isn't letting these morons bug him. He saw what they tried to do to the Clintons. He knows what they're like.

BTW, I have the "REAL" birth certificate--let me share it with you!

It's ...bin Allah Obama.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I haven't seen the video but your description creates a clear picture. The utter ignorance that is on display is mind numbing and I think your concern about the what nutballs might do as a next step is valid.

were so adamant about curtailing emotion. People in the throes of such violent unconstrained emotion are potential powder kegs.

By attempting to FOOL the public in to believing he is not a legit president... and what is logically the next level beyond that conclusion to a right wing nut with a small mind?

If you believe that people who question the President's birthplace...or anything about the President...without a direct call for violence, are doing something wrong, I'd encourage you to go to your nearest community college and take a civics class.

You're suggesting that one of the basic freedoms on which this country was founded should be illegal.

Is that different? Just curious.

and it's not against the law.

the parameters for speech that illlegally incites violence are already established. read the frigging case law. start with brandenberg. and cite what LAW IS BEING BROKEN (hint: none)

it's not illegal to WANT anything. god, the incredible ignorance of people when it comes to 1st amendment rights is astounding.

seriously.

i am sure there were plenty of freeps who made the same argument about those that opposed bush's legitimacy after the supreme court selected him. they were wrong then, you and any other speech restricters are equally as wrong now.

questioning is entirely protected free speech./

PER-I-OD

If this is true there darn well better be a commission and I don't mean like the 9/11 or Warren Commission with magic bullet Specter either. This should not have happened and should never happen again.

Following your line of reasoning, it would appear that the 2008 Presidential Elections were committed under a cloud of fraud. Obama's eligibility was certified by Nancy Pelosi.

One possible remedy is to return to the status quo ante and rerun the elections. That would mean Bush and Cheney return to office, their Cabinet returns to office, the 1000 page legislative bills are rescinded, and all executive decisions from January 20, 2009 are rendered null and void.

That is, if Bush and/or Cheney choose to return. With the MSM media storm this would entail, they can be hardly blamed if their choice is to walk away. One may hope.


4,012 posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:45:11 PM by magooey (The Mandate of Heaven resides in the hearts of men)

is require each of them to produce an original long form birth certificate (with the doctor's signature and everything). If they can't produce that then we deport them as illegal immigrants.

take matters into their own hands in order to get Obama out of office. Some veiled and not so veiled threats.

They're certainly whipping up the fervor over there

"Traitors"???

We tend to be a little more subtle here at DU, but how many people have called for the impeachment/prosecution/imprisonment of Bush in the last 8 years?

It's NOT "treason" to call for the removal of the President. I may think these birthers are idiots, but I still defend their right to spout their ignorant opinions.

that's become abundantly clear to me, and is frigging sad. not just in this thread, but in many threads.

people need to read the 1st amendment ... again. and brandenberg.

They are actively calling for "citizen's arrest" of the president. It is illegal under 18 USC 115 to threaten kidnap of a US official.

Furthermore, Taitz has already gotten one military member's security clearance pulled, and he lost his civilian job requiring that clearance as a result. She is actively encouraging mutiny in the armed forces, relative to which you might look at 18 USC 2388.

:eyes:

Yes, these idiots want to storm the WH and take the President into physical custody. And your definition of threatening to kidnap is.... what?

The statute covers threats. Its why Federal Marshals already paid a visit to a DC birther who threatened the DC fed district judge in the Hollister case.

Read between the lines of this report, from wingnut daily, no less:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92277

He finished with his speculation on what "ought" to happen to the judge, a physical act not appropriate for a family-oriented report.
...
"After reading your story about Federal Judge James Robertson dismissing a suit challenging Obama's natural born citizenship, and suggesting sanctions, I wrote him a very critical letter," Merrell told WND. "Two U.S. marshals came to visit me, making threats to silence me.

Even in that slanted report, it is absolutely clear what statute was implicated.

So, the Federal Marshals are stupid, is that it?

And the Secret Service....

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2009/07/29/us-secret-service-looks-at-alleged-coup-plotters-birthers-queen-bee%E2%80%9D-could-lose-law-license/

The Secret Service visit to Swensson came after he signed a phony “indictment” demanding removal of Obama

Boy, that Secret Service is pretty stupid, too.

...but the "birther movement", like ALL "movements", is made up of a small sliver of people breaking the law within a larger group of people legally exercising their 1st Amendment rights.

The same could be said of some animal activists...and I don't see many people here calling to persecute all animal rights activists for protesting.

But if you pay attention to this crap, you will see certain individuals crossing the line on a regular basis.

It's why RimJob had to post a "quit threatening to kill the president" thread at Freeperville a while back, in so many words.

I notice you have not specifically addressed the activities of Taitz relative to 18 USC 2387 or 2388.

"I guarantee you, the Secret Service won't let ANY Birther within two miles of Obama"

(a direct WeDidIt quote from upstream in this very thread)


As I said, there are people who break the law, but that's not more than a small sliver of actual birthers.

...and his connections with the militia movement.

real issue, but have no intention of getting violent.


"Birthers" are no more deserving of arrest or sanction...or, even, of special attention than "animal rights supporters" are.

There are always a few extremists in any group, but the vast majority are just exercising their 1st Amendment rights.

A "citizen's arrest" of Cheney is also kidnapping.

Last time I checked, it's legal for a citizen to arrest someone.

As I've said many times, freepers have the same 1st amendment rights we do.

These guys are running around with phony "indictments" and filing them with public officials.

in 2007:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x36257

Even IF this issue could be pushed, the sword cuts both ways. This is NOT something we want to encourage.

That's why the deluded peons can get media attention.

Without the money/power behind it, they'd just be little nutty peons, no one would pay attention, & 99% of them would quit thinking about it.

Power sets the public agenda most of the time. Most of the things "everyone's talking about" are things that someone with money/power brought to their attention & told them were important.

You are absolutely correct. They're amplifying the hate for a reason and I doubt it's a new one.

Those who are not in fact actually mentally deficient are indeed way too easily beguiled.

Should 9/11 Truthers go to jail?

he was a birther too -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birther#Campaigners_and_proponents

According to Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, "the birther movement has gained a large following on the radical right... it has been adopted by the most noxious elements out there."<60> James von Brunn, charged as the gunman in the June 10, 2009 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting, had previously posted messages to the Internet accusing Obama and the media of hiding documents about his life.<61><62> Ben Smith of The Politico commented: "The penetration of the birther mythology into the violent fringe has to be a worry for the Secret Service, because at its heart, it's about denying Obama's legitimacy to hold the office of president."<61>