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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:09 PM
Original message
August 5, 1961 fell on a Saturday
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 12:12 PM by CatWoman
http://www.obamanotqualified.com/obama-kenyan-birth-certificate-kenya.htm

That's the date of registration on this document.

What govt. office is open on Saturdays?
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. *sigh* These people need to keep Hillary out of this
*shaking head*

(That's a minute of my life I'll never get back, Cat)
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. English was the official language of Kenya in 1961?
Just curious. The whole thing (language, outlay, etc) looks very "American". What does a real 1961 Kenyan Birth Certificate look like?
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. And since WHEN is "Barack Hussein" a "Christian" name? (see the form)
These people swore he was a "Muslin"....they need to make up their minds :rofl:
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Why is it folded the way it is folded?
Thats odd. Was it bound in nothing? Looks like a child's homework paper. Folded to look old and authentic?
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nsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Actually, English is one of Kenya's official languages even today.
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 12:22 PM by nsd
The other is Swahili.

My guess is that someone started with a real 1964 birth certificate, photoshopped out the name and info of the person whose certificate it was, and then photoshopped in Obama's name and info. If I wanted to forge a birth certificate, that's how I would do it.

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thats how I would assume they would do it too, but...
There is no hint of bilingualism on there and it just looks very "American". Id love to see an original Kenyan certificate to even see if its in the realm of accurate or just Moran(ic)

I just had a child in another country (Canada). Despite the language and culture being very similar, it distinctively looked foreign to me (the way things are worded, layout). Something about this just doesn't have this look. Maybe Im wrong.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. In other parts of the Muslim world (and I understand Mombasa
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 12:22 PM by hlthe2b
may be similar), Friday is the equivalent of the Sabbath for Muslims. Some Muslim countries have a 5 day work week and many have Friday as the last day of the "weekend" with Saturday beginning the work week.

So, it is possible IF the document was filed in Mombasa--the Muslim area of Kenya, though nothing else about the document seems legit and I obviously do not think anything about this wacko conspiracy is...
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. Considering that Kenya was not a Republic in 1961 but known as
British East Africa or a colony of the British Empire wouldn't that make Obama a British subject if he were indeed born there? I think this is so stupid of the birthers to keep showing people how stupid they are.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Intresting point
The entire template is in question. I wouldn't know until I see a real 1961 certificate, if there even is one (it could even be cardstock and not 8.5X11). I would of done a much, much, much better job if I did this I think
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. You would think that that level of stupid would be painful. How do these idjits
manage to find their way to the Corn Flakes in the morning? :banghead:
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. Interesting, Kenya was NOT a republic till December 12, 1964
Edited on Mon Aug-03-09 01:58 PM by happyslug
Kenya was a DOMINION of the British Empire (Independent in all but name) as of December 12, 1963 but NOT a republic till December 12, 1964. Bureaucrats MAY use paper that exists after such a change but NEVER before such a change (Mostly do to the fact the Bureaucrats have to use up what is in stock and then order new ones printed then any other reason)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kenya

This is a Forgery, and done by someone who did not even do any research on the matter.

At the time of Obama's birth Kenya was a British Crown Colony and would have used "The Royal Crown Colony of Kenya" or similar wording on all official documents. Documents with the Term "Republic of Kenya" would NOT have been used prior to December 12, 1964 (And given the hardship of the previous 10 years in Kenya anything with the Term "Crown Colony" would have been destroyed if any thing else was available, i.e. Documents with the Name "Crown Colony": would have been used after that date if NOTHING else was available, but as soon as documents with the term "Republic of Kenya" appeared such documents would have been used and older documents destroyed.

Know Further reading of the Document makes me think it is genuine, but it was an attempt by Obama's father to register his child's name as a Citizen of Kenya to preserve what ever rights Obama had given Obama's father had returned to Kenya. First look at the registration date, February 17, 1964. That is AFTER Independence but before Kenya was declared a Republic. The Bureaucrats in Kenya may have anticipated the future declaration of being a Republic by adopting the name "Republic of Kenya" even while Kenya was technically a Dominion. Thus this birth certificate was issued in 1964 during that transitional time period (Native Kenya hostility to Britain would make the term Republic more pliable then Dominion during that one year Dominion period so may have been adopted for all official paperwork after December 12th, 1963).

Notice only ONE name is taken under oath, that is of the Registrar NOT the Father or Mother of Obama. Even where places are provided for signature of both Parents, those names are typed in NOT signed. Thus there is no evidence that EITHER PARENT was in Kenya in 1964 when this document was typed up, in fact the only address for Obama's Mother is her birth place. In fact the Father's address (Other then the father's birthplace in Kenya), as the "informant" is given as Hawaii (Even while his birth place is given as in Kenya).

No, this document is probably real, but it is the product of Obama's father writing a letter to the Baccarats in Kenya to register his son's birth to preserve whatever rights Obama had as being born outside of Kenya.

People tend to forget the "Old Rules" of Citizenship. Given that Kenya and the US both used English Common Law those old rules come up every so often. One of those rules was a woman lost her citizenship upon her marriage to a man of another country's citizenship. The law also assumed that any wife of Citizen of the Country became a Citizen of that country by the mean act of marriage. This was the rule even in the US till the debacle involving William Jennings Bryan Daughter being elected to the House of Representatives in the 1920s, about four years after she had married her Husband, an English Officer, and only two years after she applied for and received Naturalization papers. The House of Represntatives had a problem, the Constitution said you had to be a Citizen for five years to sit, and if you assumed she lost her citizenship upon her marriage, it has NOT been that long a time and she was illegible to sit in the House. The problem was she was coming from a strong Democratic District that the GOP had no hope of winning. She had been born in the US. Her father had run for the US Presidency three times and was still popular. She only meet her husband and live in England as part of the US War effort of WWI. How could Congress deny that she had always been a Citizen? The answer Congress could not and left her take her seat.

Now do to the trouble caused by her, Congress clarify the laws of US Citizenship (She later lost her seat in 1932 for she opposed appealing prohibition, but lost the primary to another Democrat who supported appeal. When Appeal did come up before the end of her term she voted for appeal for that what her constitutes wanted even through she personally opposed it, she was later named ambassador to Denmark by FDR). Those rules included the fact you do NOT lose your citizenship if you marry a non-citizen, any children of an American Citizen is an American Citizen etc. Thus Obama, even if born in Kenya is a Native Born US Citizen for his mother never denounced her citizenship and Obama NEVER took an oath of Citizenship to any other nation.

I bring this up for it is a change from the old rules on Marriage and Citizenship, but many people in the US and other Common Law nations knew of the old rules and feared that if they are NOT careful they children may end up stateless (i.e. a Citizen of no State). Thus Obama's father, to protect Obama's rights, wrote a letter to register his child's birth in Kenya.

I compare it to "Last Wills and Testaments". What is the difference between the words "Wills" and "Testaments"? The answer is "Wills" is the English word for what the French Called a "Testament". In the Middle Ages, Norman French was the language of the Courts of England and thus "Testaments" was the term to be used, but most laymen spoke only English and used the Term "Wills" instead. Lawyers, make sure everyone understood what was happening started to use both terms together, thus "Wills" and "Testaments" became to be one phase "Last Will and Testament". That that phased cover both the English term and the Norman French term. You see this other places in the law "To Cease and Decease" for example, another legal phase designed by lawyers to protect themselves from malpractice law suits where both the English and Norman French Term is used. These terms are used to this day by lawyers protecting themselves from some idiot who views the words as meaning two different things instead of the same thing. Today, the trend is to STOP using such phases and just use the English term, but both terms survive quite while (Even through Norman French was abolished as the legal language of the Courts in 1607).

I point the above out, for I believe Obama's father was trying to make sure what ever rights his child has as being born from a Citizen of Kenya was preserved in case Obama was ever ruled to be a NON-US Citizen. That this document is real in the sense Obama's birth was registered in Kenya, but no one not even the Registrar viewed this document as any thing more then preserving what ever rights Obama had as being born to Citizen of Kenya.
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