Geez, I guess I must really be out of step around here

The Cash for Clunkers program is the only program put forth by this administration that I've been behind completely. It is direct, simple, and overall, successful.

Yet I see numbers of people on this board pissing and moaning about the costs, that this is an imposition on the poor, that we're paying big money for clunkers, etc. etc.

Let me get this straight. This is a classic Keynesian economic stimulus program, at a time we're in desperate need of stimulus. This program creates jobs at auto dealerships and auto manufacturers. It also creates jobs at junk yards, recycling centers, transportation, steel and aluminum mills, all up and down that green economic chain. Those workers further stimulate the economy since they're getting paid, and our entire economy is lifted up. Hello, McFly.

It also is cleaning up our environment. Cars that got horrible gas mileage are off the road. Cars that were mouldering away in a driveway are no longer leaking oil and other fluids. It is even improving the quality of the cars in the used car market. Yet somehow this is a bad thing:crazy:

Oh, and with over sixty million cars on the road, removing 750,000 of them is not going to jump up the price of used cars significantly. Rather, it is going to improve overall gas mileage in used cars, along with quality for the poor.

But somehow, someway, this wildly successful, brilliant little program is, according to some, a bad thing.

Either we're now living in Bizarro world, or I'm just hopelessly out of step. Oh well.

The people bitching about the costs are making the usual mistake of thinking in the short term.

uh huh

demolished both my roommates' lovely cars. My rustbucket, which I would have happily seen gone for an insurance check, sat safely unharmed in the driveway. I feel your pain.

And WELCOME to DU! :hi:

:rofl:

While people like me are unable to take advantage of it right now, by helping the economy...it does help me. It also gives a good buzz to the country proving that government is not a bad thing when used correctly.

I completely support it.

its nothing new. Some are trolls and some love to be contrarians on every issue.

I read the other day that the initial $1B has spurred $4B in economic activity throughout the economy. That's the sort of stimulus needed right about now, and the naysayers have a lot of 'splainin' to do as to why they're so negative about such a successful program.

But it acts principally as a government give-away to the already-wealthy.

I understand why some dislike it.

:dem:

-Laelth

Is it because of the whole FICO score non-issue? Sorry, but there are lots and lots of people out there, myself included, who aren't wealthy but who have FICO scores in the seven hundreds or above. We're not wealthy, but we do watch our credit score and don't do stupid things that drop it.

Actually I think that due to the 3,500-4,500 dollar trade in, this benefits the middle class and poor the most, it makes a car affordable. The wealthy don't tend to run their clunkers into the ground, they get rid of them quickly, usually within three years. It's the middle class and the poor who've been hanging on to these inefficient cars:shrug:

Trust me. It's not pleasant to truly struggle.

Those of us who are struggling can not cash in on this give-away.

But we might get a job from the stimulus, if the economy recovers, in part, because of this law.

As I said, it's useful stimulus, and I support it, but it is simply not available to those who are truly struggling. It is, principally, a government give-away to the "already not struggling."

:dem:

-Laelth

people who have wealth that they earned themselves, as opposed to those who stole it or inherited it, tend to drive their clunkers until the damn things won't turn on anymore. When you earn something yourself you learn to treat it as valuable.

The people who trade in their cars every few years are the middle-class people who like to buy BMWs and Mercedes to pretend they are rich when they are not. People who actually are rich have no reason to flaunt it - unless, as I mentioned above, they didn't earn their money honestly in the first place.

like, having my fiance inconvinenetly DIE on me a few years ago, so that I was left with all the house bills we had together?
Ooops, my bad. Guess I should have gotten that third job.

I guess some people should not have had that possibly life-saving operation like my current husband. Or been so 'stupid' as to have had his identity stolen.

:kick:

It's helping many people who wouldn't otherwise be able to buy a new car, a chance at having something they don't have to pour money into for repairs, give them some reliable transportation and help the environment at the same time. Every little bit helps.

Unless I missed something, they are going to junk every vehicle traded in under the program. This is a picture of my 03 Dodge 1500 pickup, V6/5 speed stick.It has 80,000 miles and according to the list, it is a "clunker"



I'm not planning on getting rid of it, but if I did trade it in under the program, I think it would be a damn shame to junk a truck this nice. It's not a big gas hogging loaded luxury SUV, I get about 20-21 mpg combined out of it which is pretty good for a full sized truck. It's just a plain pickup with crank up windows, a rubber floor mat instead of carpet and vinyl upholstery. If I did trade it in on a brand new something or other it would be a really good truck for a tradesman, carpenter, plumber, handyman, carpet layer, landscaper....whatever.

I doubt too many really nice vehicles are being traded in but it just strikes me as wasteful to see perfectly good utilitarian vehicles getting tossed into the junkyard.

I generally support the program but this one aspect just bugs me. Maybe having depression-era parents that taught me not to be wasteful has something to do with it.

It's simple. Keep the goddamn thing.

My 1990 Marquis (like the Crown Vic) needed more work than I was willing to put into it to repair vacuum lines and replace sensors. I had pulled the engine a couple of years ago and replaced all of the seals and gaskets as well as the timing chain and gear set and water pump because I had to due to age. I do my own work, see? I know when a car is getting old enough that it needs a lot of work to keep it on the road. Think a poor person could afford to have the engine pulled and the gaskets, seals and vacuum lines replaced? That would cost about two thousand, pal!

I also know the value of the car complete on the used market and the value to poor YES POOR people in terms of parts in a You Pull It parts yard. My car will enter a local wrecking yard, minus the engine but with good parts intact, to feed DIY parts hounds looking for repair parts at bargain prices. I got more money for it than it was worth on the LA used market by about 3K. Better used parts for people who have no choice but to fix their own stuff. They save money because a decent steering box or differential is available (instead of the worn out police cum taxi parts cars I usually see) in the DIY yards so they don't have to pay premium yards for it or buy rebuilt. More money in their hands to buy something else they need, which feeds the what? What? ECONOMY. The goddamn car does not just disappear into a fucking black hole.

I may even see the car when I visit the wrecking yards looking for parts for one of my projects that I actually like working on.

Don't want to turn in your car? Don't, for fuck's sake. Jeebus Crico!

and replacing them with more fuel efficient models.
selling/giving it to someone else to drive would defeat that point of the program.

or just keep it. The xtra gas you have to buy is probably cheaper than car paymenst:)

I'm going to keep it. The only reason I even considered getting rid of it was because of a dealer in town that was offering a dollar for dollar match on the cash for clunkers allowance. but in the long run I think I'm better off keeping it and driving it until the wheels fall off.

I understand the program and the purpose of the program but I don't think it would hurt to make an exception to junking perfectly good utility type pickup trucks that could be a help to a struggling small business just starting out. It would be nice if the govt. could find a way to get them into the right hands through the SBA or something. Just a thought.

We have a 1994 Nissan Sentra that's still getting 20+ miles a gallon, and a 1996 Toyota Tacoma that's rarely driven these days. Both cars are older, but still running well.

If we were in the market to buy, I would love a Ford Focus sedan, I'd like to test-drive an Escape, or perhaps another Sentra.'

:woohoo:

Right now can't afford a car, and the two that I've got right now(Honda, Nissan) both get pretty decent gas mileage. I'll probably run them right into the ground, and then look into a hybrid or diesel vehicle(so I can run on biodiesel).

BUT- i've never bought a new car, and never intend to.
i like the van because of the way i sit in it(i have a disabling spinal condition), and because it can be used to haul things.
i don't do a lot of driving anyway, and i'm hoping that me next vehicle will be fully electric.(in which case i probably WOULD consider buying new)

people hate Obama. It is that simple.

A proper Keynesian system would have a surplus for times of recession. We had no such thing and we can thank the previous administration for that.

So because we have no surplus, we MUST spend in the red. There is no other option. We need intervention in the markets, but we have no surplus to spend.

It is not an easy situation to come to terms with. Inaction means a worsening economy. Action means a bloated deficit. The real question is which one is worse? I'd say inaction.

...the program is hated because it's actually working.

I wanted to take part in it as well, but my 1988 car (definitely a clunker) did not meet the gas mileage standard to qualify.

People will find fault, no matter what.

they pass their brainwashing along

That's why the Republicans don't like it.

seems the only thing Obama is getting good press about around my area in RL is the success of the cash for clunkers - local dealerships are enjoying and benefiting from the program, as are residents. Believe you me, they don't like to give Obama good press around here.

In the middle of a depression what kind of brain damage does it take to endorse - nay, subsidize!!! - the widescale destruction of productive assets?

If you didn't know this program was a total scam already, here's a clue - one of those 'environmentally friendly' vehicles you can trade in for is a Hummer H3 pickup.

This is a UAW bailout, nothing more. If you support it on that basis, go for it, but don't pretend it is something else.

Only in America!

:rofl:

I also assume that you no longer believe that the Federal government is about to, or has already defaulted on t-bills and therefore cannot afford such Keynesian stimulus measures.

Welcome back from bizarro world!

also known the teh Internets, where the only things you can count on in life are immortality, misinterpretation of something you say by someone, and knee-jerk contradiction from the closet crazies. Enjoy your stay. Gooble gobble.