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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:08 PM
Original message
Oliver North comments on Clinton dealing with enemies to release hostages.
Funny right?

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/onorth/2009/on_08071.shtml

Ransom
By Oliver North
August 7, 2009

Former President William Jefferson Blythe Clinton has returned from Pyongyang, North Korea, with Al Gore's employees Laura Ling and Euna Lee. The two women, reporters for Gore's Current TV operation, were seized by North Korean border guards March 17 along the frozen Tumen River -- the border between North Korea and China. On June 8, following a five-day "trial," Pyongyang's Central Court convicted the women of "committing hostilities against the Korean nation and illegal entry" and sentenced them to 12 years' hard labor.

On Tuesday, Aug. 4, Mr. Clinton, accompanied by a doctor and his former chief of staff John Podesta, arrived in Pyongyang aboard real estate mogul, Hollywood producer and Democratic Party donor Stephen Bing's private jet. On arrival at Pyongyang's nearly deserted Sunan International Airport, they were met by Kim Kye Gwan, North Korea's longtime senior nuclear negotiator. Twenty hours later, after what the North Korean media described as "exhaustive" talks with "Dear Leader" Kim Jong Il, the 68-year-old dictator issued a "special pardon," and Mr. Clinton headed home with Ling and Lee.

It is good that the women are reunited with their families and loved ones. Their release is being hailed by the White House as a "great gesture," and kudos is being showered on Mr. Clinton for his "initiative." The Obama administration maintains that North Korean press reports that Mr. Clinton conveyed a message from Mr. Obama "expressing apologies ... profound thanks ... and ways of improving the relations between the two countries" are untrue. Though the Clinton aircraft was refueled at U.S. Air Force bases in Alaska and Japan, the O-Team insists that the former president and party were on a strictly "private humanitarian mission" and that "there was no quid pro quo" for the release.

We all know better. The smile pasted on Kim Jong Il's face in the "official photographs" taken with Mr. Clinton tell the story. A price was paid. The North Koreans know what it is. The Obama administration knows what it is. But the American people don't -- and we won't unless transcripts of the Clinton-Kim Jong Il "conversations" are released. Don't count on that happening soon. The administration that promised to be "the most transparent in history" has made secrecy in foreign affairs a way of life.

In principle, there is nothing wrong with democratic governments engaging in secret diplomacy. Ben Franklin's covert negotiations with the government of Louis XVI resulted in the French monarchy's becoming our ally in the American Revolution. President Franklin D. Roosevelt made clandestine arrangements with London to aid the British against Nazi Germany before the United States entered World War II. In those -- and innumerable other cases -- the U.S. has engaged in secret diplomacy with allies to confound common adversaries, and the American people are not told about it until years -- sometimes decades -- later. But when our government conducts a covert contact with an opponent -- even for a humanitarian purpose, such as freeing hostages -- it nearly always blows up in our faces. I should know.

Here's why secret government negotiations with "bad guys" like the regime in Pyongyang so often go wrong:

First, those who hold the "prisoners" or "hostages" want something in return. When the captors get what they deem to be an acceptable offer, the captives are released. The very process of negotiating a "price," or ransom, for the life or freedom of an American citizen is a painful process. I know that, too.

In the 1980s, when the Iranians controlled the fate of Americans being bludgeoned and battered in Beirut dungeons, the price was 500 Israeli TOW missiles. In this week's case, the ransom may have been the Kim-Clinton photo op, the legitimacy bestowed on the aging dictator by the visit of a former U.S. president, a sub rosa "apology" and an implied commitment to open direct U.S.-North Korea "talks." It may not be as tangible as money, but it's still a ransom.

Second, in our government, nothing stays secret for long. The U.S. official "negotiator" and the captor initially may be the only ones who know what is being demanded and offered. But the U.S. government is ultimately vulnerable to the hostage holder's decision to make public anything it wants -- true or false -- about what the U.S. side was willing to give. Pyongyang already has disputed the O-Team's version of what Mr. Clinton said.

Finally, when a government pays ransom -- political or otherwise -- it establishes a precedent other adversaries will replicate. That's why most "hostage negotiations" -- such as those for crews held captive by Somali pirates -- are conducted by trusted private emissaries, not highly visible former heads of state. Plausible deniability really does matter.

Seeing as the O-Team apparently has decided to forgo all of these hard-learned lessons, perhaps it should try a similar gambit with Tehran. The Iranian regime currently holds three American hikers -- Joshua Fattal, Shane Bower and Sara Short -- for "illegally entering the Islamic republic." Sound familiar?

Bill Clinton, call home. Your wife wants to send you on another trip.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ollie North has no stature and is a convicted perjuror
Nothing he says or thinks has the slightest bit of validity.
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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oh, he's a criminal alright. But look at the, dare i say, balls, at posting
an opinion piece like this considering his history?
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. It's not "balls."
It's blatant self-serving hypocrisy of the most childish kind.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that he's also a corrupt weenie. He's a disgrace to anyone who served in uniform.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. Are you old enough to remember
North during his appearances during the Iran-Contra hearings?

He kept showing up in his Marine uniform.

One day, he was in civvies.

The Marines had ordered him to stop wearing his uniform at the hearings. When they ended, he was mustered out without ceremony. They wanted nothing to do with him.

The idea that this lying thug should presume to lecture anyone about dealings to release hostages - in a perfectly legal and diplomatically immaculate manner - is laughable. He's scum, a failure of the highest order who found his audience in the mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers who wouldn't know the Constitution if it were used as wallpaper in every room of their homes.

He's a disgrace to everything American, and he owes his freedom - and his ability to vote - as well as his Marine pension to the fact that Brendan Sullivan negotiated the ultimate weenie deal for this self-serving (man, are you right about that!) little coward who was perfectly ready, willing, and able to sell out his comrades is order to keep his sorry ass out of the slammer.

Ain't nothing like immunity to make a wuss like Ollie North blab about all the criminal bullshit he pulled and got caught at.

He's a sour failure, a loser who shamed his uniform and his country, and who now pretends an expertise that he so obviously and sorely lacks.

Despicable fucker.........................................
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. secret government negotiations with "bad guys"
arms for hostages, anyone?
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. NORTH SHOULD HAVE DONE LIFE IN PRISON FOR TREASON
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I AGREE
I don't usually shout, but I definitely agree.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. I agree. Alas, North is one of but many! n/t
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clspector Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
29. thank you
He was and is a traitorous P.O.S.
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4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. I guess Ollie North forgot that his own President Reagan "paid a ransom" to release the American
Edited on Thu Aug-06-09 11:14 PM by 4lbs
hostages in Iran.

Iran-Contra anyone?

Or should we think it just coincidental that the hostages would be released just hours after he was sworn in as President?
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waiting Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Iran Contra
Yeah, this guy is as pathetic as the adminisration that he worked for. The gargantuan balls you have to possess to be this hypocrtical.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. ransom...? what ransom?
them iranians wer just plan scared by the awe-inspiring all-american triple-titanium quantum-cowboy toughness of ronbo raygun








that putrid old s.o.b. destroyed the world long before poppy's dim son got his hands on it.
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. Disgrace to the USMC
Just my HO.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ollie North is scum. A disgrace to the uniform of the US Military...
He has no standing to tell anyone about negotiating with "bad guys".
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. As L. Fletcher Prouty would say, North is a member of the Secret Team! n/t
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yeah, like he's got credibility...
:eyes:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. From the guy that did business with IRAN? Cakes and Bibles?
From the guy who misappropriated government funds to put an alarm system in his house?

From the guy who had to go buy a fucking uniform to testify in front of Congress, because he hadn't worn one for years?

From a shameless and craven liar?

We're to listen to HIM?

Ollie North, Call ME. I will tell you to go fuck yourself, in no uncertain terms.

He's the "bad guy" in this equation.

Asshole.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-06-09 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hilarious.
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
14. Is he still alive? pity.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. When I read the OP, I thought it was an Onion piece. wow...just...wow
but then again, the republican base doesn't pay attention and doesn't read, so they will never put "two and two" together!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. Fuck the whiney little assholes
who didn't want the reporters home.

Fucking parasites.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. Pardon me but... FUCK Oliver North

Ney York Times 1987

Perhaps his most serious offense was arranging the illegal shipment from a Texas manufacturer of more than 21 tons of a highly restricted, very powerful plastic explosive. For an enormous fee, the explosive was delivered to Libya for use by terrorists all over the world.

It would be of great interest to know how Wilson managed to pull off such a high-powered, complex deal, despite all the security regulations imposed by the manufacturer, military procurement agency and the United States export control agency. No doubt, he was able to hoodwink a lot of people into thinking that he was still working for the C.I.A. and by spreading big money around.

Have adequate measures been taken to assure that a similar deal can't occur again? Certainly, the unofficial, private actions taken with the profits from the secret United States-Iran arms sales, which have yet to be accounted for by Colonel North and his associates, reflect how wide open and loose the entire process is.


...Fuck him.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
19. so, when did giving weapons to a terrorist become illegal?
I thought it was illegal before North did it, but I must be wrong, since he's got plenty of media availability ...
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
20. Ollie North is a Traitor.
many times over.
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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thank God someone
asked this traitor what he thinks. I was worried we wouldn't hear from him.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
22. STFU 'Iran Contra' Oliver North
You should still be in prison
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. Oliver North is so much more than a perjuror, or even a traitor.
Recall that Hezbollah, a terrorist group with known ties to Iran, had just killed 299 servicemen, including 220 marines, in the Beirut barracks bombing in 1983. Then, just two years later, Oliver North sold missiles to Iran -- the very country that was arming Hezbollah.

Marine Col. Oliver North pissed on the graves of 220 dead marines. If I believed in hell, he'd be on the ninth circle when he croaked.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
27. North is a lying sack of shit who would be rotting in jail, deservedly, if it weren't for
his Marine uniform.
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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-07-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It goes well beyond his Marine uniform. Ollie is a 'made man'! n/t
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GodlyDemocrat Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. Is this fucking satire? You gave fucking weapons to terrorists for hostages. Are you fucking kidding
me?
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
31. Oliver North, still a traitor after all these years.
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RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-08-09 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
32. I won't even comment on this
I'll leave it to Chuck Robb to sum up my views on Oliver North
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7bTYhy8_GE
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