Could age have something to do with it?

(Full disclosure: I'm 26, too young to remember the USSR and barely old enough to remember the Berlin Wall coming down)

So, as I have been observing these protests, I've noticed that a majority of the raucous protesters appear to be at least 40, many are definitely older.

I'm wondering if the "evil socialism" of a government health care option has a stronger influence on people raised in the Cold War era. From what my mom tells me, this generation was raised to believe that socialism is evil and to look at the world in a very black and white way. Could this be why there aren't many younger protesters of the government option? Does the word "socialist" have less power on the post-Cold War generation?

Thoughts?

The evils of communism and socialism were drilled into us. Younger people were spared that.

The average age of somewhere around 65. For every 40 year old, there's a 90 year old.

Younger people are not getting their news from television, they're getting it online.

It's Beck, O'Reilly, and Hannity.

I know that Jon Stewart and Colbert draw a much younger crowd, as do Olbermann and Maddow.

(I really don't know the answer to this one.)

not certain of the rest, but I am guessing it is similar

I'm 22 and although I know plenty of conservatives, some of whom are my friends, I don't think any of them would be up there shouting about how they want "their" America back or screaming about socialism. I don't think that word has any kind of currency with people who grew up after the Berlin Wall fell.

see some interest - ie, anger.

Draft or no, I wouldn't anticipate "socialist" rhetoric or rants about "I want MY America back!!!11!1".

The problem is CLASS warfare. The proponents of the status quo have ALWAYS used the ploy of pitting one group against another as a means of making sure we fight among ourselves rather than deal with the real culprits.

The age thing we see with these demonstrations can be broken down to simple basics, like, who has time to attend town hall meetings during hours most working people (younger and middle aged) are working? Who is more isolated from what is really going on because they are home alone more (and relying on TV/Radio for company)?

A lot of older people fall into those pigeon holes. A lot of us geezers do not.

It isn't generational. It's class warfare and too many people allow themselves to be pawns in it.

I know a lot of older wingers. Sadly, I also know a lot of middle aged and young wingers too.

DU needs to remember that Timothy McVeigh was not an octogenarian. The haters who beat, drag, kill gay people and black people out of shear hate are usually not geezers.

While most of the town hall disrupters seem older, most of the skin-head type thugs seem younger.

The current ruckus is not one generation against another; it is just another sad chapter in generations of greedy people using methods to keep the rest of us at each others' throats while they stay safe in their castles and count their ever-growing piles of gold. And they use the same crap methods to fight the estate tax which doesn't affect most of us, but impacts their own greedy progeny.

Spot on, havocmom.

The whole topic of classism is so often overlooked in these discussions.

Forty years of being fed shit and told it's chocolate pudding. Forty years of defense spending taking half the budget while education, public transportation, and health care have to scrimp and cut corners. Forty years of being told unions and government ARE the problem, while corporations give you payday loans and take away your jobs. Forty years of insurance companies taking your money for "coverage" and giving you denials and notices of cancellation.

Damn right old people are angry. When I think of what could have been, but isn't (thanks, RFK) and what exists in its place because of conservative shock doctrines, I'm past angry, I'm just disgusted. At least I know who I've been fucked over by, not like the clueless old bats that think Medicare is not a government program. It's enough to make you wish for reincarnation to see if you come back in 80 years, if anything has gotten better.

...the ones on medicare who do know it's a government program but lie about it. Or maybe the ones who hate black people?





You don't have to answer.

One of my earliest memories is of the McCarthy era. My family was one of the first to get a television just so my mother could watch those hearings. She'd had a brief flirtation with the Communists during the 1930s when they were the only ones standing up to Hitler. It didn't last long as she soon realized they idolized Stalin, who was nearly as bad. Still, she was afraid we'd get that fateful knock on the door.

The fear then was pervasive, and even a kid barely out of diapers (me) could feel it. People never knew when a neighbor with a grudge would turn them in. People felt it necessary to prove their loyalty at all times. I think that kids, especially, felt this.

I'm not surprised that people over 65 still have that silly, knee jerk anti socialism. The second cohort of boomers, those born from 1955 to 1964, were kids during the height of the Cold War and share that silly knee jerk anti socialism. These are the main age groups of the Hooters although others are certainly present.

I'm as careful who I tell about my socialism as I am who I tell about my atheism. Otherwise sensible people have those amazing cutoff points in their heads that make it deeply threatening to them that another reasonable person can be either atheist or socialist.

If you're telling me that young folks don't share one of these cutoff points, then I'm much more hopeful for the long term prognosis for this country.

(to this day, I'm extremely shy about signing my name to any petition, no matter how praiseworthy the cause. Thank you, Tail Gunner Joe)

does NOT mean everyone succombs this treatment.

I think it has to do more with who the GOP is drafting to disrupt the town meetings.

Which group is more concerned with the potential to lose healthcare? Which group makes a better photo op? Which is more likely to vote - hence have more "sway" with the legislator holding the town meeting? Who will provide more emotion to their argument (face it - loss of healthcare is probably not an emotional issue with those in their 20's).

The GOP is PURPOSEFULLY targeting seniors to attend and disrupt these meetings.


Its like if you want to protest a "draft" initiative. Getting seniors to protest that would not work. Need those impacted to turn out.

.....but I think the real age factor is how tied, by habit, people my age are to the TV and terrestrial radio.

I am 53. And I am often totally dismayed at how completely dependant so many my age are on those 2 old devices. Two devices that the right wing worked flawlessly to monopolize over the years.

I have worked 2nd shift for about 20 years now - and I think that has made all the difference. I have effectively missed 20 years of prime time TV poison. While most my age have had an exclusive diet of it. No books. No magazines. No newspapers. Only just now getting hooked into the internets, they generally troll only the websites run or endorsed by the familiar TV and radio media.

My generation is quite literally toxic with disinformation - to the exclusion of all else.

Note: this is broad-brushed, of course. Supply your own nuance. But I believe millions of Americans of a certain age are on an intellectual diet of pop-rocks and pepsi - and are now quite ill.

They may be older in your particular area, but out where I am, they come in young, old and middle age.

I'm currently going back to college to get a degree in education, and have definitely run into a large group of hard core, right wing young people there, many of them hooked on Jeebus and hating anything to the left of Attila the Hun.

It's not an age thing, sorry.

As long as their are masters and slaves among us, the masters will sic their slaves on one another, and laugh.

I'm in my fifties and WELL remember the Cold War, McCarthyism and the Cuban Missile Crisis...People were petrified and stores began selling "fall out shelters". I was 11 years old at the time and worried about a nuclear attack not letting me live past the sixth grade.

As a child during the fifties, the "Red Menace" was a strong fear.."Better dead than Red" was heard a lot. I remember at age five or six, being fearful and asking my democratic parents "Are the Communists going to come and take over"?

My point is this: If I, the child of strong democrats, was scared, you can only imagine the fear felt by the children of right wing, or even apolitical parents. They may not have answered, as my parents did, with reassurance that the country was "too strong" for that.

Conservatives are incredibly frightened people..You can probably bet on their passing that on to their kids.

My two sisters and I were born to very, very Republican parents and all three of us have been staunch Democrats all of our lives. I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s, the height of the cold war, McCarthyism and fear of Communism.

I am 65 years old, born in 1944.

Sister #1 is 57 years old, born in 1952.

Sister #2 is 48 years old, born in 1961.

The three of us certainly are not protesting a government option and "socialism" is not an ugly word. How did we (I particularly) escape?

P.S. Yes, the three of us have the same mother and father; we have been asked this on numerous occasions. I have also been mistaken to be the mother of the youngest. :)

*Edited for an error that "check spelling" did not catch.

I was botn in '46 - always left/Dem leaning

My brother born in '49 - staunch RWer

My Sister - born in '53 - another left-leaning Dem

Trying to attribute the fear of "socialism" to age is not valid. Also - listen to the young callers on inSanity's show. Scared to death of socialism and the liberal/progressive left.

...is that everyone that age gets tarred with the same brush.

I'm what you would call old, but I'm not feeble in mind or body...yet. Many friends are the same age. We all try to learn what is going on in the world and we try to glean facts from many sources.
During our youth it was as has been said on this forum. During the cold war we covered and ducked at school, practicing for the dropping of "the bomb". Some people had bomb shelters in their backyards. If the bomb didn't get us God would because we were told and it was announced that the end times were coming very soon. There were even dates given for the last day. (Several of them). ;-)
During WWII we were encouraged to be very patriotic, we sang patriotic songs at school, grew victory gardens, sat quietly while our parents listened to the BBC on short wave radio. The war was very real to young children as well as adults. Many of us had relatives in the war, and some of us didn't know if they were alive or dead until the end of the war. Although we were very young then, we heard stories that made us feel terror concerning what those soldiers, sailors and marines might be going through if they were alive in foreign prison camps.
There were shortages of many things. We had tokens (red and blue) for gas, sugar, etc, collected scrap iron that was hauled away and recycled to make airplanes, bought war bonds.
We lived with anxiety and fear much of the time and that might be why "fear" statements work so well with that older age group.

None of that excuses those who refuse to listen to facts on an issue. It doesn't excuse the yowling people at town meetings who believe freedom of speech is only for them, not for anyone else.

a religion - i.e. "if you question the way we do things, you must be a commie". We're glad its over, but 20 years hasn't been long enough to diminish the fear factor.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/93

The RED MENACE is a product passed down from the fearful and paranoid older generation to the fearful and paranoid members of Generations X and Y. Only the smarter and less reactionary people don't fall for it.

:hi:

Socialism in the days of USSR meant "godlessness." So much so that Eisenhower/Congress changed the Pledge of Allegiance to add "under God" in there.

Hence, an attack on capitalism (or any sort of govt involvement) has become sort of an attack on "the Christian roots this country was built on, blah blah". Yes, surely Jesus was a hardcore capitalist!

It's not just seniors buying into this. They are at these townhalls because they have the time - the younger group might be working or going to school.

But you are correct that the older generation have a more personal association. The younger generation have been scared/brainwashed into it.

Not to mention a long list of other atrocities the American people should, but do not, take a stand against.

communities of origin and at coming of adult age / transition to independence
education level
religion
military background of family

To me many younger people are politically apathetic.

I am horrified by the ignorance and class bias in the USA.

I am of the Vietnam generation.

The young can be brought to the light re the big picture of what's going down, as where the old(er) perspectives often times have morphed into belief in the fantastic/unreality. They cling to their illusions out of a sense of fearing it's too late in life to have the tried n true belief system challenged, as it may pull the proverbial rug out from under.

to face in many ways. Part of this is the rightful breakdown of the American Exceptional ism mythos. Young people at DU are paying attention but young people at DU are the exception. The media is far worse except thankfully we have the internet.

BTW I read Three Stigmata when I was 16 and have the best PKD collection I have ever seen though know there are better and much pricier from internet acquaintances and used book searches. I have read all the novels (Except Voices in the Street which I possess), letter collections, various other written ephemera, and biographies. I even worked in the same Fed Research Office part time as an undergrad when PKDs mother was another employee though I did not know this until reading the Sutin bio years later. I am at a loss as to the source of the quote in your signature line and would like to know. TYI.

do with it.

If it does, there's more hope.

I grew up during WWII. Things were much as LeFleur described; the "war effort" and its ramifications were everywhere. Although rather than worrying about the servicemen, I remember worrying about the little kids -- German, English, etc.-- who had to hide in bomb shelters during raids. I guess it just didn't register with me that so many were actually dying.

And after the war we lived in fear of nuclear war for many years.

OTOH, I don't think socialism was ever actually that big a boogyman to me. Maybe because I lived in a university town. Most everyone around me made a distinction between communism (imposed by force) and socialism (attained thru voting). When Britain's Labour govt. under Attlee nationalized the health system, my father (a moderate Republican) reacted like, "Of course, that's a perfectly sensible thing to do." I did have some spats in college with the Young Republicans when I said that not everything called socialism was bad. They looked at me like I'd suddenly sprouted horns! I though they were pretty stupid--what were they going to college for if they didn't want to examine things on their merits?

I guess I was lucky.

I suspect a lot of those bussed-in protesters are people who are just angry. Angry at life for not treating them better (they look like a bunch of what we'd have called "sad sacks" in WWII days) and unfortunately this makes too many of them fodder for RW agitators.