Kind of relevant considering Limpballs' comments and the storming by teabaggers and salad tossers at the town hall meetings.


http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/putsch.htm

They put this plan into action when they learned there was going to be a large gathering of businessmen in a Munich beer hall and the guests of honor were scheduled to be the Bavarian leaders they now wanted to kidnap.

On November 8, 1923, SA troops under the direction of Hermann Göring surrounded the place. At 8:30 p.m., Hitler and his storm troopers burst into the beer hall causing instant panic.

Hitler fired a pistol shot into the ceiling. "Silence!" he yelled at the stunned crowd.

Hitler and Göring forced their way to the podium as armed SA men continued to file into the hall. State Commissioner Gustav von Kahr, whose speech had been interrupted by all this, yielded the podium to Hitler.

"The National Revolution has begun!" Hitler shouted. "...No one may leave the hall. Unless there is immediate quiet I shall have a machine gun posted in the gallery. The Bavarian and Reich governments have been removed and a provisional national government formed. The barracks of the Reichswehr and police are occupied. The Army and the police are marching on the city under the swastika banner!"

None of that was true, but those in the beer hall could not know otherwise.

I've learned at this point that whatever republicans are saying about liberals is a projection of what they themselves are doing.

...yet.

I don't want to lose by making Nazi comparisons, I do want to point out that you can pretty much figure out how Republicans will be acting by looking at what they accuse liberals of doing. For instance, if you have a libertarian and family values republican, you can be sure that the family values guy will be in the sex scandal, because sexual immorality is what he accuses the liberals of.

...then make a 180 degree turn.

Its like they can't make up their minds, so they are stuck in some vague meaningless moral in between land that doesn't make any sense.

Is that most of it was in Hitler's head. Yes, for a short moment they did manage to overrun downtown Munich, but there was no march on Berlin, the cops and the army did not cross over, and when they tried to march on city hall the next day, they were met with a hail of bullets from regular Reichwehr troops. If I remember the dedication to Mein Kampf correctly, 9 Nazis were killed, Hitler and Goering were wounded, and Ludendorff calmly walked through the ranks of the troops into custody.

Maybe this will work out the same way. If it does, I hope the courts are harder on would-be American Fuehrers than the courts were with Hitler. RW judges in the Weimar Republic treated him, and other RW terrorists in the 20's with kid gloves, allowing him a short stint in prison, where he dictated Mein Kampf, and then he was out and scot-free again.

...and another correlation would be that the majority the salad tossers think they are in is also in their heads.

because they fell apart when the shooting started.

He was lunatically brave, which he proved as a Colonel on the western front at the beginning in 1914. He had loony RW tendencies, and he dabbled in the occult. He also probably arrogantly assumed that none of those soldiers were aiming to shoot at him.

Background: Joseph Goebbels book The Battle for Berlin was an account of the beginning of the Nazi Party in Berlin. He presents an idealized portrait of courageous idealists fighting for a noble cause. This section describes a battle in a meeting the Nazis had organized in the Wedding district of Berlin, a communist stronghold. Goebbels chose the location as a provocation to the Marxists. He wanted a fight, and got one. It the classic Nazi account of such a fight.

The source: Joseph Goebbels, Kampf um Berlin (Munich: Verlag Franz Eher, 1934), beginning on p. 63. The book was first published in 1932.

The Battle in the Pharus Hall

It was a provocation the likes of which Berlin had never seen. Marxism thinks it presumptuous if a person with nationalistic sentiments expresses them in a working class district. And in Wedding ?! Red Wedding belongs to the proletariat! It had been that way for decades, and no one had the courage to object and prove that was not the case.

And the Pharus Hall — that was the uncontested domain of the K.P.D. (the Communist Party of Germany). They held their party congresses there. Almost every week they gathered their most loyal and active members there. Here one had heard only talk of world revolution and international class solidarity. Here of all places the NSDAP scheduled its next meeting.

It was an open declaration of war. We meant it that way and the opponent understood it that way. Our party members were jubilant. Everything was now at stake. The future of the Berlin movement would be risked boldly and bravely. It was win or lose!

Continues: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/berlin.htm

Archive of his work that's most probably in Rove's bookmarks list: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goebmain.htm

Their conduct is, at any rate, in the spirit of the Beer Hall Putsch. For those who know German history, that Putsch gave Hitler a kind of aura of leadership in a time of chaos. Many confused people then turned to Hitler and became followers. They did horrible things in allegiance to him.

Right now, and I mean today, President Obama needs to step forward, speak to the concerns of people about the health care reform program and show some leadership. Otherwise, he will lose the confidence of people. At that point, it will be easy for someone who appears to be a potentially "strong" leader to emerge, someone with an aura of confidence and authority (not exactly like Hitler's which seems way overdone today but at least someone who will give confused Americans a sense that he knows which way to go in terms of health care and the economy), and make President Obama look ineffectual and untrustworthy. That is how it worked in German history and in the history of other nations. That is how dictatorships come into power.

If he wants to have an effective presidency, President Obama will have to advise Democrats in Congress that they have had more than enough time to agree on their plan, and that he is going to answer the questions out there and that they will either vote for his plan or find themselves on the losing end in the mid-term elections because this health care plan is make it or break it for Democrats.

That is because Democrats promised America health care reform. They can't put it off. If Democrats can't deliver on health care and provide good, workable reform, how can they expect Americans to re-elect them? In another year, the memory of Bush's incompetence will be forgotten. The memory of the Democrats' incompetence and disarray on health care reform will be remembered.

Further, Americans are suffering in this horrible economy. The controversy on health care reform is yet another distraction from dealing with the more serious economic problems.

The president has to be able to play boss and not just best friend every once in a while. He has to be able to switch those roles. It's time to be the boss and just tell Congress how it is going to be. If Congress wants to make minor changes, OK. Otherwise President Obama needs to call out those individuals who are bringing down his government.

President Obama has the ability to do this. If he allows the chaos to go on, he will lose the patience and respect of the American people. That is the lesson to be learned from the Beer Hall Putsch and German history. Someone, not necessarily just like Hitler, but someone who offers quick, sure answers and looks like a strong leader will assert himself in a dramatic way and, like superman, captivate the imaginations of Americans. These mini-Beer Hall Putsch's are all over the TV and radio. Obama has very little time in which to save his presidency.

President Obama needs to get on prime time TV right now and tell people that abortions and sex change operations will not be funded, that the government is not going to come between them and their doctor and answer all the other silly, lying, fear-mongering questions that the Republicans have planted in the public's minds. The Team of Rivals is a great story and teaches lessons from history, but so does the Beer Hall Putsch. And right now, the lessons of the Beer Hall Putsch are more relevant.

San Jose Mercury News. Saturday, September 25,1982
U.S. bankers aided Hitler, book claims
MUNICH, West Germany (UPI) -- A publishing firm claimed Friday to have discovered a book that alleges American bankers supplied Adolf Hitler with millions of dollars to help build up his Nazi party.

Droemer Knaur publishers said they received a copy of the book from a Dutch doctor and were convinced that it was authentic.

They said the book, written by the late U.S. banker Sidney Warburg, disappeared during the war.

Warburg, a joint owner of the New York bank Kuhn Loeb and Cie. described in the book three conversations he held with Hitler at the request of American financiers, the Bank of England and oil firms to facilitate payments to the Nazi party, the publisher said.

The book alleged that Hitler received $10 million from Kuhn Loeb and Cie. during 1929, further payments of $15 million in 1931, and $7 million when Hitler took power in 1933, the publishers said.

They said Warburg described himself in the book as the "cowardly instrument" of his American banking colleagues for having arranged deals with Hitler.

The book originally was published in Holland in 1933, shortly before Warburg's death, but disappeared during the war after its translator and publisher were murdered, the publisher's spokesman said.

He said it was thought the Nazis carried out the murders and destroyed copies of the book to avoid being discredited.

The book will be republished Dec. 1 under the title "How Hitler Was Financed," he said.

http://www.naderlibrary.com/NAZIS.hitlersecretback.htm

note the URL provenance....dunno what it means, and I'm going to google warburg and see what's up with him and his book

the rest of the page has an excerpt, which details his conversations with Hitler in the 20s, and names names of various American banking interests

sounds like it might be a crock, but it's interesting, to say the least, and ties in with what we know for sure about vesting order 248 and the Union Banking corp

all that concerned with Hitler at the beginning, many thought we should have good relations with Germany, and that it was in our best interests to do so.

those that had the most to begin with, and wanted to expand/protect what they already had.

now, who might that have been?

And most people were probably painfully unaware of what was going on in Germany...just look at how ill-informed we Americans are about anything outside our own little world.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Antony+C.+Sutton&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8

could be a crank, but he was at Stanford (Hoover Inst), and seems to have written across the political spectrum

the book that interests me is right here, online

Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler

http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/index.html

it's at something called the 'reformed theology' site, and that's sounds crankish to me, but we all know how much reliance was put on Chaikin/etal's Bush series (Larouche).

this ties in with the previous link, to which I'm going to add in the next post

the rights of corporations are paarmount...lots of people here back then (and today) love that idea.

what's more authoritarian than a corporation, after all?

it's widely noted that Mussolini himself considered fascism to be merely a meld of big business and big government, which makes perfect sense

and if anything demonstrates that interpretation, just look what's happened over the last eight years, with almost ALL the reins against total free market depredations stripped away by the crooks in the previous administration, taking things to unimagined extremes, and leaving us in the dire straights in which we find ourselves today

...facism is right-wing, always has been...how stupid can these people be? it's like Pat Robertson saying that it was gays who ran the concentration camps...no, they were the ones imprisoned there.

The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

Seriously, there's no bottom to the stupid well. It goes down and down forever.

In most of prehistory, though, stupidity would have been weeded out by natural selection.

That's what's wrong today: Nothing kills stupid.

...modern medical healthcare has its downside1

http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_10.htm

so I guess it looks like a hoax, but Sutton concludes:

"Sidney Warburg" never existed; in this sense the original 1933 book is a work of fiction. However, many of the then-little-known facts recorded in the book are curate; and the James Warburg affidavit is not aimed at the original boo but rather at an anti-Semitic book circulated over a decade later.

Paul Warburg was a director of American I.G. Farben and thus connected with the financing of Hitler. Max Warburg, a director of German I.G. Farben, signed — along with Hitler himself — the document which appointed Hjalmar Schacht to the Reichsbank. These verifiable connections between the Warburgs and Hitler suggest the "Sidney Warburg" story cannot be abandoned as a total forgery without close examination.

who knows how deep the connections between american economic giants and hitler's rise were. we do know these connections lasted well INTO WWII, and involved several large US corporations, so is it unreasonable to assume that these connections were forged before he came to power?

does anyone here deny that that the last eight years have shown that anything is possible?

I fear not enough people know this pattern or this history.

The gloves have to come off. We must continue to unmask and expose the devilish and masterful plots.
Kicked and Recommended

Literacy prevails at DU!