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Are Iraqi Women Becoming Mexican 'Adelitas'?

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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:18 PM
Original message
Are Iraqi Women Becoming Mexican 'Adelitas'?

The camp followers of the Mexican Revolution

Soldaderas, coronelas, Adelitas, female soldiers, camp followers. They were the women on the battlefields of the Mexican Revolution: strong-hearted, ...www.epcc.edu/nwlibrary/borderlands/21_soldaderas.htm - 21k - Cached - Similar pages

Are Iraqi women joining an insurgent group to be with and support their husbands or to avenge the death of a husband, children and other family members?
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:28 PM
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1. Do you think american women would do the same if our country were invaded?
would we get our own special name?
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libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. women who fight are now called "Sailors", "Soldiers" and "Marines"
and they don't need their own special names.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. guess i needed that sarcasm tag, huh?
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Many did during the Revolutionary War.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Yes, I would.
Had I been a young, Mexican woman in the days of Pancho Villa, I would have become an adelita. These women were considered rebels by the ruling government.

Keep in mind, Bush has taken control of Iraq.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I like
Battle Babes

Chicks of Doom

Estrogen Driven Vixens (EDVs)

The Double Xs

P.O.M.s (Pissed off Moms)

and from Madison, WS "The Lightening Strike Force of Lethal Lesbians."

Apologies to any EDVs & etc. I kid I kid ..... :rofl:

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. During the American Revolution, some of the women
did the same and were called camp followers. They were even paid partial wages.
Some served as soldiers, either disguised as men or by taking up their fallen husband's weapons.

Here's an example I found online:
http://www.distinguishedwomen.com/biographies/corbin.html

Margaret Cochran Corbin fought alongside her husband in the American Revolutionary War and was the first woman to receive pension from the United States government as a disabled soldier. She was born Nov. 12, 1751 near Chambersburg, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., orphaned at the age of five and was raised by relatives. When she was twenty-one she married John Corbin. John joined the Continental Army when the American Revolution started four years later and Margaret accompanied her husband. Wives of the soldiers often cooked for the men, washed their laundry and nursed wounded soldiers. They also watched the men do their drills and, no doubt, learned those drills, too.

On November 16,1776, while they were stationed in Fort Washington, New York, the fort was attacked by British and Hessian troops. John was assisting a gunner until the gunner was killed. At this point John took charge of the cannon and Margaret assisted him. Sometime later, John was killed also. With no time to grieve, Margaret continued loading and firing the cannon by herself until she was wounded by grapeshot which tore her shoulder, mangled her chest and lacerated her jaw. Other soldiers moved her to the rear where she received first aid. The fort was captured by the British, but the wounded American soldiers were paroled. They were ferried across the river to Fort Lee. Margaret was then transported further in a jolting wagon all the way to Philadelphia. She never recovered fully from her wounds and was left without use of her left arm for the rest of her life.

In 1779, the Continental Congress granted her a pension ("half the pay and allowances of a soldier in service") due to her distinguished bravery. She continued to be included on regimental muster lists until the end of the war in 1783. Margaret Cochran Corbin died near West Point, New York prior to her fiftieth birthday.

In 1926, the Daughters of the American Revolution had her remains moved from an obscure grave and re-interred with other soldiers behind the Old Cadet Chapel at West Point where they also erected a monument to her. Near the place of the battle, in Fort Tryon Park in New York City, a bronze plaque commemorates Margaret Corbin "the first American woman to take a soldier's part in the War for Liberty"


Haven't read this book, but it looks like an interesting piece of writing on this topic:
http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=293211138032417
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. NOT Camp Followers, these "Washer Women" were IN THE CAMP.
Edited on Wed Apr-11-07 04:17 PM by happyslug
It is unknown where the term "Washer Woman" was first applied to women serving in the ranks, but it was an old term when we first have the first writing using the terms (During the Crusades when a camp was overtaken by the other side the first thing discussed was the exchange of the washer women).

Camp Followers were literally that, people who followed the Camp and thus were OUTSIDE THE CAMP. Washer Women were INSIDE the camp and as such an integral part of the Army. As to how many Washer women in any army is unknown, but each Platoon was entitled to at least one (Pre-WWI platoons generally had about 20 men to a Platoon). Thus a rough calculation was about 5% of any army was female (i.e. one out of at least 20).

The role of the Washer Woman was more than washing clothes. The Washer Woman brought the troops water when needed, cook the meals for the Platoon and general support for the Troops in addition to washing clothes (Through By Napoleonic times, Male cooks were doing a good bit of the Cooking, but a lot was still done by Washer-Woman). How most Washer Woman were selected is also unknown, but most ended up being the wife of the Platoon Sargent (And often hired together). In many ways a Platoon from the Time of the Crusades to the 1880s was like a Family, The Sergeant was the Father, and the Washer-Woman was the Mother (and often their son was the drummer boy). Please note, these are how things occurred, but other arrangements could be made i.e. hiring single females, hiring someone else than the Sargent's wife etc). The position of Washer-Woman was independent of her spouse in theory, but often not in practice.

At Company level the First Sargent ran the Company with its 3-5 Platoons (anywhere from 80-100 men and thus 4-5 washer women). It was NOT uncommon to find out that the First Sargent was the father or Father-in- law of the 4-5 Sergeant's in the Company (and thus the Father or Father-in-law of the 4-5 Washer Woman in the Company).

During the post-Civil War Era when it was decided that the meals of the men had to be "improved", it was decided to go with male cooks so they could go to cooking schools instead of staying with Washer Woman. Congress, like most other Governments of the time Period, decided that it was better to educate men to cook then to pay for the education of married Woman (Which most washer women were). In compensation enlisted men were permitted to get extra rations and pay for their spouse, but no education for their wives.

Just a rate about people who confuse Washer-Women with Camp followers, these were two different group of women. One subject to Military orders (The Washer Woman) and one outside those Rules (The Camp followers in most cases).

For some information on Women in the American Revolution see (and even here the Writer confuses Washer-women with Camp Followers, but if you look at the quotes from the reports of the time period, you will see the quotes do NOT make the confusion):
http://www.continentalline.org/articles/9501/950101.htm

Regulation of the ConfederatE State's Army (# 121 addresses Washer Woman). I regret not having a better site, but Washer Woman are rarely addresses in military volumes or reports, they exist like the sky and the sun, and like the Sky and the Sun unless the washer women had some outstanding role in a battle are just assumed to exist and as such NOT mentioned.
http://www.geocities.com/capitalguards/CSARegs.pdf
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. if you had your family blown up in front of you what would you do?
we are occupiers in that country, and we have killed their family members.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Perhaps they just believe in the cause and it's not related to family. nt
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Roughly a million Iraqis are dead.
So there are probably few Iraqis out there who haven't lost a friend or extended family member in this war.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-11-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. True, but why do we assume with women it has to be family-related? nt
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