Have Democrats lost control of the message/agenda?

This question is not specifically about Obama, but he's a part of it.

Has control of the message been lost? Forget the truth for a moment. It pretty much doesn't matter. The Internets are clogged with anti-anything-left e-mails being mailed, remailed, edited, recast, reedited and resent and then rinsed and repeated.

The town halls have been pretty effectively hijacked by the crazies.

Just today ..... Specter and McCaskill have had their metaphorical lunches handed to them. They're by no means the first or last. Just last night, in supposedly blue Maryland, Senator Ben Cardin was met with similar mindless vitriol.

All of this is out there and the fact is THERE IS NO BILL BEFORE CONGRESS. Yet people are pissed off at what they've been told - by media hate mongers and (VERY WELL) paid operatives of the corporatists - is in "Obama's healthcare plan". Some on the left are pissed for the flip side of the very same reason: Obama has NO healthcare plan.

In the background are people with guns at these town hall meetings. There is hyperalert among the Secret Service's presidential detail. local cops are on alert when these circuses are played out.




And through all of this ...... where's the message? Not one heard by you or me, who pay attention. But by average people?

Do we hear the word "socialism" a lot?

Or do we hear "improved health care for the country" far more?

moving the debate forward constructively.

Why isn't the media covering what will be in the bill rather than covering this bs?

... conflicting in some areas, competing in others... and generally leaving the door open for bickering and confusion.

Which is why, IMO, Pres. Obama should have drafted a bill of his own and submitted it to Congress.

Then we'd have had a solid starting point to measure everything else against.

Why he opted not to do so, I have no idea.

My own guess is that he doesn't want his political hands dirty. If some part of it is shit, he can point to somebody else.

He has more capital accrued based on what we assumed he'd do than what he actually said he'd do.

It's "the sound bites, stupid"..... folks too busy to watch during the workday get the gist of the Town Halls by watching cable talking heads.

So as far as I am concerned, the "protesters" are begetting other "protesters" and we will have the snow ball effect in August.

I am not a dooms day kind of person, but even little 'ole me can see the "protesters" are gaining ground planting doubt.

It's been BADLY mishandled by the Dems.

The GOP cheerfully starts throwing a storm of shit at the public, to muddy the waters and see what sticks. The Dems are never, ever prepared for it.

Never set the tone from the start, that these are crucial, profoundly important issues, worthy of the attention and support of every single American.

While repukes, on the other hand, turn even the most trivial nonsense into OhMyGawdItsTheEndOfTheWorld!!!

Which gets tiring, no doubt about it. But I'd like to see Dems get that fired up about genuine TEOTW issues, instead of approaching everything like a debating club rehearsal.

the media keeps showing the theater and not showing intelligent people with good questions. However it does appear like our mental health care system is failing way too many people.

it pretty much pissed off a lot of people and we have no agreement or idea of what "reform" is going to be. . .so that limited our ability to respond.

And I also blame ourselves for not doing more to organize support - but then we don't know what to support yet.

The GOP right now has more to worry about regarding a "message," than we do. Their image, through their Astroturf/Stoopid Mob efforts, has cemented into one that brands them as the Party of Violence, the Party of Lies, the Party of Hate, the Party of Racists, the Party of Thugs, the Party of Fear, the Party of Desperation.

If ever a party needed to get control of its message, it's the GOP.

I'm proud of our Democratic representatives (yes, surprisingly, even Arlen Specter) who refused to back down from the Beck/Limbaugh/Palin incitements and held our message firm. It worked, and with Pres. Obama's home-run today, this train is definitely still on track.

The people I interact with daily, the people who are not as plugged in and politically aware as the average DUer, are mad because of "Obama's health care plan" and are terrified of "socialism". It's maddening. I keep saying "there's no bill yet" and asking these people to define socialism, but to no avail. All they know is they are scared and angry and it must be Obama's fault. Sprinkle in a dash of racism and you have a recipe for uncertainty and chaos.

Spot on, Stinky. Big k/r.

That way, he would have framed the debate in absolutely concrete terms from the start.

Everything that followed would have been measured (and reported) in terms of how it adheres to or deviates from The Obama Health Care Bill.

:shrug:

The technique of drafting legislation and submitting it to Congress didn't somehow lose all validity because "Hillary did it." :eyes:

1. Hillary wasn't president. She was (maybe rightly) seen as a usurper.

2. Bill Clinton had just been elected because Poppy got skunked by a skunk - Ross Perot - and "enjoyed" far less than 50% support.

3. They tried to explain the minutiae to the public and the public's ears rolled shut.

4. Obama has (had?) a veritable mountain of political capital.

We'd be right here, talking about "zomg! I can't believe Obama tried the same thing Hilary tried! Why can't he learn from history???"

:rofl:

.... whatever.

Its so easy to be a snark and replace a conversation with your stupid shit like {shrug}, {facepalm}, etc.

Just forget it.

I think Hilary combed her hair and brushed her teeth in the morning, back then. Should Pres. Obama give those things up, too, just to really shake up the ol' game plan?
:shrug:

Our response was slow - for various reasons I'm sure - but it's coming on a bit now.

.... actually punched.

I must have missed that. All I see is an until now very dusty, unused Bully Pulpit.

Never mind ....... ferget it.

the high ground and PUBLIC SUPPORT.

You have to wonder whether they really wanted reform at all. This has been the most fucked up campaign for any good idea - ever.

also known as "the liberal media", you've lost control of the message ...

These people wouldn't accept Obama's message if Jesus came to them and spelled it out on tablets of stone, with the letters afire ...

The lunatic right-wingers are not picking up additional support. They're just showing democrats and independents they're a bunch of ignorant, nonthinking lunatics.

My best friend's girlfriend is a libertarianish independent. Fiscal conservative, leans liberal on social issues. Liked Ron Paul in '08. Never a democrat. She says nobody listens to Sarah Palin (she's wrong, but probably means "nobody of consequence"), and that universal health care is an eventual inevitability, even if not right away. She sees the march of progress, and she sees what goes on in the rest of the world. And of course she thinks the town hall usurpers are a bunch of fucking clowns.

The extremist republican base is getting themselves all riled up, and everybody else is laughing at them. I mean come on, death panels? Anybody who takes that seriously was never on Obama's side, and never going to be.

Having a message drowned out by a ludicrous albeit louder message is not losing control of the message. They're hurting themselves far more than they're hurting us.