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Today's Episode Of "What Digby Said": Tasers And The Terrorists Who Use Them.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 04:37 PM
Original message
Today's Episode Of "What Digby Said": Tasers And The Terrorists Who Use Them.
Edited on Thu Aug-13-09 04:50 PM by BlooInBloo
(Title is mine - I thought it was decently snappy)

I thought this part of the terrorist-cops thread deserved its own thread.

Fuck all torturers, including cops.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/08/11/tasers/index.html

I'm speaking of the ever more common use of the Taser, an electrical device used by police and other authorities to drop its victims to the ground and coerce instant compliance. The videos of various incidents make the rounds on the internet and you can see by the comments at the YouTube site that a large number of Americans find tasering to be a sort of slapstick comedy, the equivalent of someone slipping on a banana peel, with a touch of that authoritarian cruelty that always seems to amuse a certain kind of person. "Don't tase me bro" is a national catch phrase.

Tasers aren't benign however. They kill people. Nobody knows exactly why some people die from being tasered, and they certainly don't know how to tell in advance which ones are at risk. But there have been hundreds of deaths similar to the one below, which nobody can adequately explain:

A Detroit teenager who police say fled a traffic stop Friday died after being subdued with a Taser. He is the second Michigan teen to die following a Taser stun in less than a month. Warren Police say they don't know why the 15-year-old bailed out of a Dodge Stratus he was riding in during the stop on Eight Mile near Schoenherr, leading officers on a half-block chase that ended in an abandoned house on Pelkey in Detroit. The car was stopped for having an expired license plate. In the scuffle, officers shocked the teen one time with a Taser, police said. Shortly after, he became unresponsive and died.


Taser International has successfully defended themselves in lawsuits by attributing the deaths to drug use and if that doesn't work do to the fact that drugs were not present in the victim, they rely on an unrecognized medical condition called "excited delirium", a disease that only afflicts people who die in police custody. Juries apparently find this convincing. Taser has only lost one case.

But that isn't the real problem, although it may eventually be the path by which tasers are banned for use in civilized countries. As awful as the possibility of death is, tasers would be a blight on any free people even if they weren't so often deadly. Tasers were sold to the public as a tool for law enforcement to be used in lieu of deadly force. Presumably, this means situations in which officers would have previously had to use their firearms. It's hard to argue with that, and I can't think of a single civil libertarian who would say that this would be a truly civilized advance in policing. Nobody wants to see more death and if police have a weapon they can employ instead of a gun, in self defense or to stop someone from hurting others, I think we all can agree that's a good thing.

But that's not what's happening. Tasers are routinely used by police to torture innocent people who have not broken any law and whose only crime is being disrespectful toward their authority or failing to understand their "orders." There is ample evidence that police often take no more than 30 seconds to talk to citizens before employing the taser, they use them while people are already handcuffed and thus present no danger, and are used often against the mentally ill and handicapped. It is becoming a barbaric tool of authoritarian, social control.
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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & R, Check out the FOUR WH***S!
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "There's always a good time to use a taser". (facepalm)
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busybl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. that jumped out at me too
wtf, it is not a toy. They use it on anybody. Not even considering the fact that the person may have a health problem or isn't drunk, but in diabetic shock.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. On the "learning" channel?
:puke:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Glad I don't watch that channel.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Funny, I know who they are without even clicking your link.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. What are the statstics on taser deaths...
when compared to people having heart attacks while wrestling with police the old fashioned way?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. No idea. But like Digby said, that's not really the deep problem.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yeah, I'm not convinced how deep that problem is.
"There is ample evidence that police often take no more than 30 seconds to talk to citizens before employing the taser"

That only looks at cases that result in tasering. It's not counting episodes where police talk to citizens and don't deploy the taser. If somebody's going to cause an incident and resist arrest, they'll probably not going to spend a lot of time chatting before hand, so I don't see what the issue is with that statistic.

"they use them while people are already handcuffed and thus present no danger, and are used often against the mentally ill and handicapped."

Like anything else, there are instances of abuse. How do the abuse instances compare with legitimate use? If cops are going to abuse people, wouldn't they just use billy clubs, mace, etc. if they couldn't use tasers?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Because pictures of puffy fucked up bleeding faces don't go over so well any more.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. So by that logic,
I should just be grateful for all the times the police can and they don't?

Why are your assumptions valid while other's are not?
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Sixfold increase in in-custody taser deaths during first year.
Here's the abstract from the American Journal of Cardiology, but several news orgs have reported on the story:

http://www.ajconline.org/article/%20S0002-9149%2808%2902113-9/abstract
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Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. Recommended. Talk about police state... nt.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Awwww - you mean it's not fun to watch cops taser a mentally ill guy in a courtroom?
What not into scat? (he shits himself twice due to the taser).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zdv_tG69Jo
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Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. That was terrible! Fucking scumbags! There were SIX of those shitheads, and they had him
handcuffed! There was NO reason to tase him! Damned shit-heads...
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yep. Had to go digging around youtube, since the link in Digbywald's article was broken.
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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Six Whores.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. A veritable manifold of whores.
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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. ROFL
:rofl:
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. Recced back to 5, but nice try.
Who knew there was a pro-taser/police brutality lobby on the DU?

I'm shocked.
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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. The Pro Police Brutality/Fascists
are not the property of any one side of the aisle.
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